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Overcrushes vs BTR Training?


Onerepman

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1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Not enough real world data there. About half of the guys who have MMS #4s did it before the 3.5 even existed. One of the guys currently who can close a #4 refuses to cert on any gripper beneath the #4.

one 4 closer currently, Chez, will indeed cert the 3.5 soon.

And, how many of those #4 closers can actually close a 200# 4? Meaning, maybe the ones they closed were easier than 200

because the 3.5s these days are coming in over 180 consistently. Morgans came in at 184! Paul told me back when he did his 3.5 cert that it was rare for one to come back as high as 175. So times have changed.

So long as a guy has proper set technique on both sets, and is training efficiently, this 20# rule will hold true even with guys below the #3 level, as well as above it.

 

and, embrace this rule of thumb.. as it will certainly help you to identify possible fakes, or cheaters in the future.

Yes many was before but there are indeed people who are great at MMS and can't cert the #3.5. Juha Harju is one guy that comes to mind, he has said so himself.

Also Martin Arildsson, he's a crush monster but not on the #3.5 list. I'm sure there are more. The official cert list on the #3.5 is just too short.

Also these are CCS not TNS. The latter is much harder. How often do you see TNS closes with the #3.5? Almost never...

The leverage you get with TNS is so poor. I think the higher level you're at the harder it becomes. Sort of like comparing the Crusher to the Wrist Wrench the latter being TNS and the former being MMS. If you increase your strength with let's say 20% on the implement or the set you are stronger with it will not increase with the same amount on the harder one.

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49 minutes ago, Chez said:

I started to think about it and 20 lbs sounds right for me also. So this seems like a good rule of thumb. There will be outliners as always.

I also think bodyweight is a big factor. Most people who are light and are strong with MMS are not as strong with wider set. It can of course be because they might have smaller hands. Might not just be because of bodyweight.

 

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Yes, I think body weight helps with grippers more than a lot of events. My hands are 8” and I weigh 280 lbs so we will see. I throw my weight into the set so I know the weight helps me. Im also an adrenaline junkie and perform better at certs where I am rested a head of time and spend lots of time warming up and pumping myself up. 

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7 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Not at all to beat you up, but i already covered all the bases here. Please reread my comments.

id hate to have to waste more bandwidth quoting and bolding my owns posts beneath each of your arguments.

 

 

I've read your comments. First of all it was not about CCS it was about "NS/TNS" which is way harder than CCS. I would say a 30 lbs difference is probably more accurate for TNS. Then as Chez pointed out it will always be outliers who break this rule.

I also don't think the #3.5's are consistently over 180 lbs. I've got two of them which are fairly new and both are under 180 lbs. One is rated 175# and the other one feels about the same.

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I just think this helps set expectations for someone who doesn’t know what to expect. It’s not a “rule” per se. If someone finds something different in their training, that’s fine. I’m not sure how much effort it’s worth to convince someone. 

The most important message you had, Tommy, I thought was about hand size. If you can close a light gripper with a credit card set, then you can do it with harder grippers. Strength is the challenge.  For myself, I have always lacked the strength to certify on the #3. I just never quite got there. 

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45 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

I say go for that #3 cert dude! It aint over! Let that fighting spirit take way once in a while!

Oh, believe me, if I am ever within striking distance I'll go for it.  I've always wanted to check that box.  But my best MMS close was 164# which... as we're discussing... only translates to a 140-something CCS effort.  And that holds true for me.  I've never CCS closed a #3.  A 130-something #2.5 was my best effort.  I'm training grippers again, though, so we'll see where this goes.  :shuriken:

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On 11/5/2018 at 12:59 PM, Tommy J. said:

That said, we can pretty much confidently suggest that if a guy can CCS a 3.5, then its highly likely that he can also close a #4 with a MMS. And vice versa. Same goes for a guy who can CCS a #3.. that same guy can almost always MMS close a 3.5.

You can see, that you’ll need 235lb. MMS to CCS a 215lb no.4!  Give or take ...

quite a task!

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:06 PM, Tommy J. said:

20# rule +/- 3 lbs. and i didnt need a calculator to figure it out. I stumbled upon this from actual gripper training experience, and based also what i have seen from other experienced gripper guys.

I agree with this rule of thumb.  At any level of gripper strength.  There are always "outliers" - but even they are usually not that far removed from the 20lb rule from the lots of gripper guys I'm familiar with. 

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