Jump to content

Brian shaw 238lb little big horn lift


Stephen Ruby

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

Right, but that's my point. David Labbe is tall like Stephen and has 9"+ hands. Nobody my height and weight that doesn't have some kind of deformity had 9"+ hands. Being bigger means, you are way more likely to have big hands. Just like with squatting, being bigger means that you are more likely to have bigger muscles in your legs. Are there people that are big that have genetically smaller legs and squat less than some people that are smaller than them with genetically big legs? Absolutely. But in general, the average 300lb athlete will squat way more than the average 200lb athlete.

Also, hand size only really matters on wide pinch, some gripper events, and thickbar.

Ya. The best we got is the weight classes. But the majority of our lifts aren’t as body weight dependent as powerlifting. Heaviest thing we got is the axle which is the most body weight dependent. After that, Everything is sub

300 lbs. we aren’t dealing with weights that tax a persons whole body strength just to move 

Edited by Chez
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Paul Savage

    9

  • Kluv#0

    9

  • Chez

    7

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Here's a video I made a few years ago comparing several different anvil training devices, including the old and new versions of the LBH. Scroll to about the 7 minute mark to get right to where I compa

Here is Igor's amazing lift  

Grip doesn't really scale the same though for the heavy weight classes. I like grip for this exact reason that lighter guys can compete with heavier guys which is why andrew durniat is one of my favor

Posted Images

climber511
36 minutes ago, Chez said:

There’s a correlation but not sure how strong. Hand size and foot size can vary a lot. You and Stephen are examples of that. Stephen is 6’6” and well over 300 lbs but I think your hand is longer than his. Even if it isn’t, your hand is bigger than many guys who outweigh you or are taller than you on the board. I’m talking to a guy who’s new in grip and he’s 6’5” but has sub 8 inch hands. 

I think Hand size is one of those things that is tough to factor in. The best

body for grip is a lean short guy with big hands. Shorter height keeps their weight down and the big hands gives them an advantage over others in their weight class.

i do agree we don’t have enough data to figure out any correlations including weight.

You may need more data but a man TWICE as big plus a little as Kody or Gil with comparable hand size should be kicking sand in their face - not just sneaking by.

Link to post
Share on other sites
WestSlope
6 minutes ago, climber511 said:

You may need more data but a man TWICE as big plus a little as Kody or Gil with comparable hand size should be kicking sand in their face - not just sneaking by.

It's probably a mistake to assume the lifts Shaw has posted are at the limits of his ability. We don't know if he trains the implements and we don't know if, for instance, he just finished running up an incline with 500 lbs in each hand.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephen Ruby
1 hour ago, Squeezus said:

 Hand size is important, of course, but guess what correlates very strongly with hand size...weight! Should Brian be able to lift twice as much as Kody? No. But 5% more is not impressive at all. 

That really isn't fair to the heavy weight class. Even in the deadlift which scales much better then grip for weight  Benedikt Magnusson is only about 5% better then Cailer Woolam despite being twice as big as him and I don't think his accomplishment is "not impressive at all".  I think being better whether by 1lb or 50lbs still means your stronger. I think grip is the only strength sport other then arm wrestling where light guys can compete with heavier guys and be competitive which is why its a great sport. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stephen Ruby said:

 12 min in he does the lift with ease. What is the biggest unofficail lift on this device? I know adam glass had some big lifts on it in the past. I wonder why brian shaw never did any grip contests at the expos once he was a top 3 guy in the world considering he trains it and his old training partner Mike burke competed in several. Hopefully the fact he has been putting up so many grip videos recently means he might get the itch to smash some records officially. 

Wow the old LBH is more like a vertical bar than an anvil horn!! There is barely any taper or conical shape on it all!!! The new one is a cone!! I highly doubt .. meaning his gym mates there, would be lifting 190 or above  so easy on the newer LBH.... man I did not realize the old version was almost like the jug!

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites
David_wigren
26 minutes ago, Stephen Ruby said:

That really isn't fair to the heavy weight class. Even in the deadlift which scales much better then grip for weight  Benedikt Magnusson is only about 5% better then Cailer Woolam despite being twice as big as him and I don't think his accomplishment is "not impressive at all".  I think being better whether by 1lb or 50lbs still means your stronger. I think grip is the only strength sport other then arm wrestling where light guys can compete with heavier guys and be competitive which is why its a great sport. 

Armwrestling is definitely not a sport where light guys can compete with heavier guys. At least not if they are of equal competative ability. If the local heavyweight happens to lose against some pro lightweight, it just means that the local heavyweight sucked. But imagine putting someone like a 180 lbs Cobra Rhodes against a 270 lbs Dave Chaffee or Denis Cyplenkov. It wouldn’t even be a match.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephen Ruby
1 minute ago, David_wigren said:

Armwrestling is definitely not a sport where light guys can compete with heavier guys. At least not if they are of equal competative ability. If the local heavyweight happens to lose against some pro lightweight, it just means that the local heavyweight sucked. But imagine putting someone like a 180 lbs Cobra Rhodes against a 270 lbs Dave Chaffee or Denis Cyplenkov. It wouldn’t even be a match.

Oleg zhokh has beaten heavy weights and he is a lighter guy also john brzenkis the GOAT and routinely beat guys much bigger and stronger then him throughout his career. I admit i'm not super familiar with armwrestling but I have seen light guys beat heavy guys before where something like that would not happen in say free style wrestling ever. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, climber511 said:

You may need more data but a man TWICE as big plus a little as Kody or Gil with comparable hand size should be kicking sand in their face - not just sneaking by.

I’m talking about enough data to use an equation like Wilkes etc like powerlifting 

Link to post
Share on other sites
climber511
2 hours ago, Chez said:

I’m talking about enough data to use an equation like Wilkes etc like powerlifting 

Think I'll use an "age factor " formula at Gripmas :)  I'll multiple all my lifts by my age and divide all of your lifts by your age - should work out OK LOL

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone elaborate on the differences between NEW and OLD Little Big Horn? Texture, slope, size? Are there any pictures out there? I've tried to google it but don't know which one is old or which is new.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Stephen Ruby said:

That really isn't fair to the heavy weight class. Even in the deadlift which scales much better then grip for weight  Benedikt Magnusson is only about 5% better then Cailer Woolam despite being twice as big as him and I don't think his accomplishment is "not impressive at all".  I think being better whether by 1lb or 50lbs still means your stronger. I think grip is the only strength sport other then arm wrestling where light guys can compete with heavier guys and be competitive which is why its a great sport. 

Slightly off topic but Cailer just pulled 430kg at 98kg body weight in Russia. Fourth straight meet he has broken the DL WR, and heaviest DL by an American in any weight class. He tried 440kg and on his fourth attempt (they give you a fourth if it's a WR attempt in the federation) it looked like he was still moving up slowly when they gave him the down command. Just crazy someone in the 220 weight class has a legit shot to pull 1000lbs!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Eric Roussin

Here's a video I made a few years ago comparing several different anvil training devices, including the old and new versions of the LBH. Scroll to about the 7 minute mark to get right to where I compare these two devices.

 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul Savage
4 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

This is my approach to Brians grip ability as well.

while it is obvious he does do grip stunts, and is familiar with grip, im sort of on the fence if i believe he actually takes grip serious. Many of the top performers here have been at it diligently for years. While he certainly appears to have dabbled, there is no way he has focused diligently on grip in an effort to max out his potential on it. I feel i can say that with some confidence just due to the volume of his strongman training he needs to focus on to be competitive in strongman. 

I mean its difficult just to mix arm wrestling with grip.. i can imagine that mixing a serious strongman routine with a serious grip training routine could be near impossible. I would think so at least.. at some point, some of the training will clash. Resulting in poor(er) performance

if i was a strongman competitor training for a crazy heavy frame carry or something, the last thing id want to do is have to figure out a way to program training for it around specific grip training. Especially when there is no specific grip events at a strongman comp. at least not like what is contested here. All of the stuff that seems somewhat grip related in strongman comps, straps are permitted.

im not real sure what numbers or percentages to cite that might be near Brians max grip potential. so for now all we can do for data purposes via 440lb performers is just wait and see what else he does. He’s kind of all the data we have for a possible competitor that large.

 

everyone knows im not a fan of formulas. They are designed to give extra credit where its not really needed. But i do agree with Gil on his comments about the ideal size for great grip performers. And on a side note, i also think that same size competitor is the best for combat sports like MMA, Boxing, etc. it appears to be the case anyways.

its like the perfect size range for a great mix of speed and power and agility. And notice that its not a small window.. so many out there could easily fall into that gap.

 

so that said, i can somewhat agree that Brian (at his size) does leave some grip strength to be desired. 

Maybe one day Brian will retire from strongman and go all in on other strength sports like grip or powerlifting. Who knows.

Actually grip is a big part of strongman competitions. I know straps are generally allowed on deadlift but hand and wrist strength is key for many events, stones, farmers walks, sandbag medleys, tyre flips, husafelt carry, arm over arm, Conan's wheel, truck pull, axle clean & press, Hercules hold, fingals finger, power stairs, all throwing events, wheel barrow, circus dumbbell, duck walk, pole push/tug of war events. To be honest, it's almost everything but deadlift with straps. Even events like forward hold it tests the wrists and sometimes there's things you don't realise like for example the log handles for Arnold Europe Becca did were almost as thick as an axle.

As for doing the two together, they definitely help each other more than they hurt generally speaking. The issue comes when you have to plan specifically for competitions, to program that can be tricky, you basically have to focus more on one or the other and maybe can't do as much specific training as you want. It becomes a bit of a juggling act then but for general none comp prep training it's easily done. There's a lot of grip in general strongman anyway as said, but fat gripz on your deadlift warm ups or on your assistance stuff warm ups is a really simple way. Towel grip the same, pull down or seated row warm ups, pinch hold at the end of training maybe (I've seen Brian has what looks to be a 2" bar he uses for pulldowns and rowing plus does a lot of bare handed assistance stuff, shrugs, rope grip face pulls etc  etc). It's easy to fit in some good basic stuff and that can take you a long way.

For this specific test it's no wonder Brian is strong at it, he's currently training arm over arm for a big comp he has coming up and the biggest factor in that is crush grip on the big thick rope you use, it's almost exactly what he is doing on the little big horn in terms of grip / he's been doing heavy truck pulls with the same grip for years.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
David_wigren
8 hours ago, Stephen Ruby said:

Oleg zhokh has beaten heavy weights and he is a lighter guy also john brzenkis the GOAT and routinely beat guys much bigger and stronger then him throughout his career. I admit i'm not super familiar with armwrestling but I have seen light guys beat heavy guys before where something like that would not happen in say free style wrestling ever. 

Oleg almost doesn’t count since his hand is so malformed that it makes it very hard for his opponents to even grip up. And on top of that, his brachioradialis muscle is about 2-3 times the normal size and inserts way up on his upper arm and way down on his forearm, givning him an extreme mechanical advantage.

John Brzenk is a good example and while he had periods where he was around 90 kg, he was his best and strongest at 100-105 kg. However, I predict that if armwrestling were as big of an international sport as say soccer, with millions upon millions of participants. John Brzenk would only had been good in his own weight class. And not have a chance against the real heavyweights.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Frank Pizzo

Brian Shaw demonstrating more grip implements and lifts is really great.  Him lifting at or around world record level on them is even more great.  To say that the lifts are unimpressive or not high enough is more than a bit silly.

To suggest that that guy trains those implements with the kind of focus that I know some of us do is absurd.  Of course he trains his grip (to a point) for strongman, and of course that is gonna have some carry-over, but it's not the same as concentrating on those implements week after week, month after month, year after year.

Bench pressing twice a week for a decade is going to make you very good at bench press....but if you only try chest flys 3 or 4 times a year, how good are you really going to be at them?  Pretty good...maybe, but not as good as you are at bench pressing that for dang sure.

To really be good at any specific lift you have to train it over and over and over and over again...and then some more lol.

Just my thoughts

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul Savage
2 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

so what your suggesting is that Brians grip is at or near its max potential? How rude. 😬

if thats the case, im going to continue to argue otherwise. What we are seeing out of him is not as strong as he can be. his recent hubbing as example. Notice how he gripped it.. and also how poorly seasoned it looked. that alone represents where immediate improvements can be made to add weight. In the event he truly felt the need to break the hub record, for example, all he really needs to do is experiment a bit with his grip and his hub numbers will rise without even the immediate need to get stronger on it.

it looks more to me like hes interested in grip strength, and is more or less is looking for new ways to put out new content more than anything. I mean even he knows we can only stand to see so much eating, deadlifting, and pressing type vids.

 

To suggest that hes at his strongest with grip due to the nature of various implements in his area of expertise is a bit too pessimistic for me to get on board.

or maybe not.. but either way, im not interested in understanding why you would suggest it.

i know that i would never say that about anyone. Its almost the same as implying that they shouldnt even bother trying to get stronger.

No I didn't say that?? Not sure where that's came from but in terms of general grip strength maybe yeah however some stuff is more specific, if he doesn't train hub for example id expect that to shoot up some with training. Of course an implement seasoning isn't strength gain but can definitely increase the numbers a lot. Also some rest from strongman events training in terms of fatigue possibly could help numbers too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fist of Fury
3 hours ago, David_wigren said:

Oleg almost doesn’t count since his hand is so malformed that it makes it very hard for his opponents to even grip up. And on top of that, his brachioradialis muscle is about 2-3 times the normal size and inserts way up on his upper arm and way down on his forearm, givning him an extreme mechanical advantage.

John Brzenk is a good example and while he had periods where he was around 90 kg, he was his best and strongest at 100-105 kg. However, I predict that if armwrestling were as big of an international sport as say soccer, with millions upon millions of participants. John Brzenk would only had been good in his own weight class. And not have a chance against the real heavyweights.

I think weight matters to a certain extent but after you have reached a certain weight it becomes less of a factor since armwrestling is a lot about speed as well. Which is something you lose if you are too heavy.

It's like Tommy said, you need to have a good mix of power, speed and agility in most sports, this goes for armwrestling too I think.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, UnomeKC said:

Slightly off topic but Cailer just pulled 430kg at 98kg body weight in Russia. Fourth straight meet he has broken the DL WR, and heaviest DL by an American in any weight class. He tried 440kg and on his fourth attempt (they give you a fourth if it's a WR attempt in the federation) it looked like he was still moving up slowly when they gave him the down command. Just crazy someone in the 220 weight class has a legit shot to pull 1000lbs!!

Yeah but is was sumo so it doesn't count. 🤔😎

  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike Rinderle
On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:33 PM, WestSlope said:

It's probably a mistake to assume the lifts Shaw has posted are at the limits of his ability. We don't know if he trains the implements and we don't know if, for instance, he just finished running up an incline with 500 lbs in each hand.

This. 

He may (or may not) be able to hit 300 if he actually trained this.  V-Bar type lifts usually go up very quickly for beginners the first few months they train them.  I'm pretty sure this isn't his physical limit, just a strong guy screwing around.  Could be wrong.  He may atually have trained this lift seriously for the last 6 months.  But i highly doubt it. 

Edited by Mike Rinderle
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fist of Fury
4 hours ago, Royz said:

Yeah but is was sumo so it doesn't count. 🤔😎

I know this is probably just a joke but there's some truth in that statement. It doesn't really count against Brian or any other strongmen.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike Rinderle
13 hours ago, climber511 said:

Think I'll use an "age factor " formula at Gripmas :)  I'll multiple all my lifts by my age and divide all of your lifts by your age - should work out OK LOL

I'm in!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Kluv#0
12 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

Here's a video I made a few years ago comparing several different anvil training devices, including the old and new versions of the LBH. Scroll to about the 7 minute mark to get right to where I compare these two devices.

 

NFL free safety giving a very good anvil presentation:)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
climber511
49 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I'm in!

Mike and Climber for the win!!!!!!!  Seriously I did run formulas on Gripmas one year (one of you Google fu guys might find it?) - after the fact, not as  part of the competition scoring.  It was pretty interesting really.  Wilks - Metzler - Malone - not sure what all else but about every formula I could find.  The one thing I remember it showing was that the strong guys were still the strongest - I got a little bump with my age but little else changed.

 

Edited by climber511
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

I know this is probably just a joke but there's some truth in that statement. It doesn't really count against Brian or any other strongmen.

Umm what?? This is a grip board and in any strongman competition, or any heavy training footage I have saw, Shaw deadlifts using straps.  So straps are okay but sumo stance gets discounted? 

Cailer has pulled 804 for a double with a traditional stance and 815 for a single in training using hook grip. Throw out the fact he literally weighs 200lbs less than Brian, head to head no straps I think Cailer would out pull Brian. Keep in mind Brian's big DLs have been on specialty bars as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, UnomeKC said:

Umm what?? This is a grip board and in any strongman competition, or any heavy training footage I have saw, Shaw deadlifts using straps.  So straps are okay but sumo stance gets discounted? 

Cailer has pulled 804 for a double with a traditional stance and 815 for a single in training using hook grip. Throw out the fact he literally weighs 200lbs less than Brian, head to head no straps I think Cailer would out pull Brian. Keep in mind Brian's big DLs have been on specialty bars as well. 

So what’s the deal with all the straps these days? Seems like everyone I see is pulling with straps, from strongmen to powerlifters to the average IG poster. I don’t get it. SMH. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.