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Bryan Hunsaker

Grip Sport International Implementation

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Mike Rinderle
8 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Agreed.

 

regardless of the multiple attempts to quash the valid questions relating to testing, i’d like to point out what future testing would/will do to past WR’s.

more directly, there ARE WR’s set already by users prior to any talk of testing. I know this for a fact. No names. So what will become of those records/revered competitors after testing begins and the validity of lifts (all lifts virtually) begins to be questioned?

there is far too much fact to hash out on the ped testing thing than most here care to admit. Like it or not, it is the nature of such discussion. I say hash it out right now and find common ground, or forget the idea.

You would have to erase everything and start over.  Only way.  Could do pre and post records.  But nobody would care about pre.

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jchapman
17 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

You would have to erase everything and start over.  Only way.  Could do pre and post records.  But nobody would care about pre.

You could also take a page out it the powerlifting book and change the weight classes slightly, so all the pre-testing records are in “retired” weight classes.

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Shoggoth
5 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

This is what i suspected. But i want the committee to say it. I will guantee its gonna be the factor that divides permanently.

There should be an asterisk or something by records made with the new unlimited attempts within a minute too going down that path. 

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Chez
46 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

now that everyone has seen how dominant a pro strongman is on grip should he decide to get interested, i think there are many competitors here screaming “test him” simply because they dont want to be out done by guys like Brian.

I’ll honest. Yes, this is a reason why I want testing. We have seen some strongman competitors at fit expo comps and now Odd is running comps (I’m sure his friends in strongman will occasionally join) etc and I frankly don’t want to compete against them. I’m in the 120+ kg class so it effects me more than others since I am in their weight class. I would rather go against guys like me who are clean ordinary guys who just work hard in the gym. 

but I also know of a former competitor who been at our comps who wasn’t a pro strongman but won a lot and openly admits to using. 

Edited by Chez
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Joseph Sullivan
36 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

In all honesty, the drug testing appears to be a way to keep guys like Brian Shaw out of competition and off records lists, should he choose to compete...

now that everyone has seen how dominant a pro strongman is on grip should he decide to get interested, i think there are many competitors here screaming “test him” simply because they dont want to be out done by guys like Brian.

 

is what im hypothetically suspecting.. i say hypothetically only because i have yet to see anyone flat out suggest it. But lets be real.. why else would “testing” be on your mind?

but i hope im wrong. Can anyone clarify this angle for me?

My reason for backing testing is because it is fair for all. I could care less if it’s Joe Schmo or a Brian Shaw. If I work hard to get strong the legal way, the old fashioned way without any “rocket fuel” then everyone else in a strength competition should also be “rocket fuel free”. We all know, that the rocket fuel substantially increases ones strength, recovery, and muscle building capabilities to way beyond what they are capable of without the rocket fuel. It makes it fair. I don’t understand why so many people these days justify it because they think everyone is doing it. Call me a purist. And I am not a weak guy or someone looking for a crutch complaining because people are stronger than me as all of you who  know me would probably agree. I can fair well or beat people that juice in strength events . That doesn’t change the fact that I hate PEDs and think they poison athletic competition and the validity of the records produced by them. Anyone that is being honest with themselves would agree. The justification of it is weak.  

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Chez
4 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Not to beat you up Chez. I dig you and find your work ethics and determination to be somewhat un matched, as i have eloborated on in the past.

 

However, between this view of yours here (that i dont agree with) and your views on bw formulas (that i do agree with) combined, it does somewhat appear that your attempting to fine tune who gets to compete against you. Is that a competitive spirit?

I don’t see a correlation between the two. I never said I don’t believe in weight classes. I said we don’t have a formula which works like Wilkes for grip. Weight class is the best we got. I also don’t believe in enhanced competitors. And no testing will catch everything but it will at least keep people honest.

Edited by Chez

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Mike Rinderle
4 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Not to beat you up either Joe, but like it or not, people WANT the pro athletes they watch on roids.. they just dont know it. Nobody wants to see a bunch of guys who run a 40m in 5.4 seconds playing major league baseball.. or seeing guys with a low batting average missing slow balls and not even getting on 1st base. People only pay to see superhuman performances. And without PEDs, superhuman performances rarely happen.

See baseball ratings for the MaGuire/Sosa war.

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Joseph Sullivan
7 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Not to beat you up either Joe, but like it or not, people WANT the pro athletes they watch on roids.. they just dont know it. Nobody wants to see a bunch of guys who run a 40m in 5.4 seconds playing major league baseball.. or seeing guys with a low batting average missing slow balls and not even getting on 1st base. People only pay to see superhuman performances. And without PEDs, superhuman performances rarely happen.

Does that make it right? Because people want to see it? This is competition... not a TV show. It’s because of that that people resort to taking drugs. It’s a crazy world we live in Tommy. Taking drugs because that’s what the people want. I know you get what I’m saying..... 

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Joseph Sullivan
24 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

 

I was actually hoping i was wrong on this.. more in response to this i would suggest being proud to say you have officially competed against an athlete of this caliber, win or lose. In fact, it would be an honor to compete officially against Brian in any strength sport, should he decide to compete here. Especially one like grip where many here can stand a fighting chance against him, drugs or not.

 

Neither did I. I stated that i share your dislike of BW formulas that make heavier competitors appear weak.

There ain’t no weight classes in the jungle! Haha ....  @Mike Rinderle

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Chez
42 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

 

I was actually hoping i was wrong on this.. more in response to this i would suggest being proud to say you have officially competed against an athlete of this caliber, win or lose. In fact, it would be an honor to compete officially against Brian in any strength sport, should he decide to compete here. Especially one like grip where many here can stand a fighting chance against him, drugs or not.

 

Neither did I. I stated that i share your dislike of BW formulas that make heavier competitors appear weak.

I just got back from the gym. I don’t think we are going to agree on this and that’s ok because everyone has different view points. I enjoy watching guys like Brian on tv but I don’t need to compete with him. I don’t want to travel hours just to get my ass kicked by someone enhanced. If I was near where he lived I’m sure I could reach out to him and ask to join a training session since he seems like a cool guy. Derek poundstone had a gym near me In ct (not sure if he still does) but I could have went there and met him if I wanted and he was top guy at one point. I enjoy being competitive at comps as much as possible. I have a strong hatred for performance enhancing drugs and would rather have testing to deter it in the comps I compete in. I have torn so much skin off my hands and battled through big injuries training to close coc 4’s so if someone juices up to get to that same point, it bothers me and I would rather not compete with them. I have put my heart and soul into my training even though I’m not that strong so it does bothers me if someone uses gear to get there and wants to go head to head with me.

I feel the best compromise is having a tested group and records and untested group and records. This is similar to powerlifting federations and bodybuilding feds that have both. That way people can compete with those guys if they want but won’t have to if they don’t want to.

Edited by Chez

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Chez
8 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

on the 4 closes in regards to your training.. i think its worth mentioning that Brian, to my knowledge has not closed a #4 though.. like you have. In the event he competed, i still think there are implements Brian wouldnt dominate. Grippers being one of them.

I didn’t want to say it but I think he could be beaten on mms or 20mm block grippers right now since I don’t think he knows the set technique. But once he gets it down it’s over and that would take only a couple sessions to teach. He could cert the 4 under the new rules if I spent time teaching him and he cared enough to train for it and I think he would do it rather quickly 

Edited by Chez
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Cannon
19 hours ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

GSI is not saying it will test this, that or the other - we're only saying that the option is on the table, and we'll assess later.

This thread has remained open for the good will of discussing how the testing issue relates to Grip Sport.  That has run its course.  From a moderation standpoint, and for fear of this turning into a broader debate (which it kind of already has), it now needs to be left at what Bryan posted earlier; quoted above.

The purpose of this thread was for the GSI Committee to inform about decisions they have made so far.  Bryan has assured that the concerns about testing have been heard.  I think we can all agree this is officially "on their radar."  Continuing to belabor the finer points will result in posts being hidden.  We will probably not lock the thread in case there are other new questions or concerns about the original post. 

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Jedd Johnson

I'm late to the game here.  I admit it.  And I haven't read everything.

But I keep seeing push-back on the $20 membership fee.  I think back to when I was in Strongman from 2003-2006 and membership for that was $50 or more.  We're asking for less than half of that.

If a one-time payment of $20 holds you back from competing, then you aren't serious about competing.  You're looking for something to fill time, in my opinion.

We are trying to legitimize this sport, and we need financial support to do so.  I've tried for years to do it without financial support, and I can't make it work.

Doing the same stuff over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of CRAZY.  I've been crazy for too long.

This is the direction we need to go in, in my opinion.  I hope I haven't offended anyone.  Your opinions are all very important to me.

Thank you.

 

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Joseph Sullivan
9 minutes ago, Jedd Johnson said:

I'm late to the game here.  I admit it.  And I haven't read everything.

But I keep seeing push-back on the $20 membership fee.  I think back to when I was in Strongman from 2003-2006 and membership for that was $50 or more.  We're asking for less than half of that.

If a one-time payment of $20 holds you back from competing, then you aren't serious about competing.  You're looking for something to fill time, in my opinion.

We are trying to legitimize this sport, and we need financial support to do so.  I've tried for years to do it without financial support, and I can't make it work.

Doing the same stuff over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of CRAZY.  I've been crazy for too long.

This is the direction we need to go in, in my opinion.  I hope I haven't offended anyone.  Your opinions are all very important to me.

Thank you.

 

100% truth. If 20 bucks holds someone back... you said the rest!

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Jedd Johnson
On 9/25/2018 at 6:07 PM, Bryan Hunsaker said:

Let me try and respond to everyone:

@Shoggoth There needs to be an understanding that a lot of individuals, like the board members of GSI, are constantly putting personal money (not to mention lots of time) into running the organization, trying to piece together a sport.  The broader community of grippers need to take part in this process.  $20/year is not a lot of money but if someone has legitimate financial hardships, we'll get a sponsor to cover the shortfall.  We don't want $20 holding someone back.  We need everyone involved, though, with skin in the game, to make Grip more than it is now.

@Joseph Sullivan @Tommy J. We're saying that the Organization may require drug testing, not that it will, first of all.  We envision this being a tool to keep the sport clean, and possibly only something to enforce at larger events like National's or World's.  In the event that testing is required, I believe GSI would cover those costs.  Again, though, I wouldn't expect testing to be conducted regularly, or to be the norm. 

@jchapman I'm not that familiar with the Grip Collective, so I don't want to speak out of place, but I believe that was a group trying to streamline international efforts and rules, but not in an official capacity.  GSI aims to be an official unifying body for various Grip organizations around the world.  I suppose there is some overlap in mission, but I also don't believe the GC is that operational at the moment.  Maybe someone else like @Jedd Johnson @Eric Roussin could address this?

@climber511 I don't believe there is a fee to list a comp.  That is via the Grip Board, and not GSI.  Anyone can run anything they want, any time they want, promoted however they want, but the goal is to get more and more people to run GSI-sanctioned events to foster a more cohesive sport.

Fees - people can still compete for free.  However, GSI will only track results for GSI members moving forward.

Money in general - Strongman and other strength sports are thriving.  Personally coming from a Strongman background, I can tell you that most competitors are not highly-compensated professionals in their personal lives, and money can be a personal holdup.  Nevertheless, ranks are swelling and the sport is growing rapidly, while charging more annually and per competition than Grip.  Much of that is due to the resources they're able to allocate back to events and the sport.  A lot is from the ability to leverage membership into corporate sponsorship.  We don't even know how many people are legitimately involved in Grip and so getting corporate sponsors (outside of grip implement manufacturers) is incredibly difficult as it is a question of incremental and un-traceable marketing spend - business owners won't commit to that.  GSI aims to present a real face to the sporting world, and potentially corporate world, to bring in resources to become a legitimate and recognized sport.  If Strongman can muster annual fees + competition fees from its ranks, Grip has no excuse.  GSI, in turn, will utilize all the proceeds to grow the sport, and when possible, give back to the member athletes with things like travel support, etc.

Grippers - we aren't limiting the scope of grippers to choked, certified implements.  This could include a CoC out of the packaging (or an old CPW), a table-top close of a GHP, a 20mm close of an insert-brand-here gripper, a Silver Bullet timed hold, etc.  Only certain categories of gripper events will be tracked, though (as has been done in the past).  The grip event in a competition can be an un-tracked event.  Grippers as a broader category keep the core events more accessible to more people, and cover a highly popular segment of Grip.

Guys, bottom-line to all of this, just being real, the sport is stagnant and needs an impetus to change.  GSI is that opportunity.  We need the community to coalesce around this.  Present legitimate issues if there are any, but with small things, try and overlook them with focus on the greater good here, which is a bigger sport with more resources and recognition, which ultimately benefits all involved.

Thanks,

GSI

Tee Grip Collective is still a thing, but isn't very active in making forward strides with the growth and development of the sport.

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Jedd Johnson
23 hours ago, jchapman said:

Right, but if you test for synthetic hormones, someone on HRT will test positive.  So then what happens?  

I think this is a policy that we as the GSI board will need to look into at another time elsewhere.  Thank you for bringing it up though, because I'm not familiar with it, Joel.

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Shoggoth

It’s not so much that it’s $20USD ($30CDN) but that it’ll be an additional $20USD on top of their current comp fees. Especially for this area where they may only hit 1-2 comps a year. Promotion is done locally and is very successful at that level here. 

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WestSlope
39 minutes ago, Shoggoth said:

It’s not so much that it’s $20USD ($30CDN) but that it’ll be an additional $20USD on top of their current comp fees. Especially for this area where they may only hit 1-2 comps a year. Promotion is done locally and is very successful at that level here. 

To present a possible solution to a problem - for 2019, I suggest a $5-$8 GSI comp fee per individual for each  comp up to a $20/yr cap. I would think this would be simple to track and *should* ease the financial concern. Those that are serious will end up at the $20 (or they could opt to start at $20). Those that just want to try it are still helping GSI.

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JHenze646

If the GSI is a non-profit, can you accept donations, monetary or otherwise? Where can these donations be sent?

As an athlete, what do I get for my membership? Will membership cards or certificates be issued? Will the GSI be selling swag? If I want to tell everyone I meet about this great sporting organization I belong to it helps when I am wearing their t-shirt, hat, socks, boxer shorts, iPhone case, GSI earrings, etc.

 

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Joseph Sullivan
33 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

If the GSI is a non-profit, can you accept donations, monetary or otherwise? Where can these donations be sent?

As an athlete, what do I get for my membership? Will membership cards or certificates be issued? Will the GSI be selling swag? If I want to tell everyone I meet about this great sporting organization I belong to it helps when I am wearing their t-shirt, hat, socks, boxer shorts, iPhone case, GSI earrings, etc.

 

Very good questions!!

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Bryan Hunsaker

I've been traveling, so I'm a few days behind on responses.

@Mike Rinderle I'm not saying it is unconstructive to discuss drug testing - I'm saying that it isn't the primary issue here, and it is being addressed overtly.  Regarding the accounting side of things, we are aware of how to setup a non-for-profit and handle the filings.  For transparency sake, I'd be completely comfortable in making available where funds are being utilized.  In particular, I take no issue with this because I'm personally contributing a lot of money already, and will likely have to continue to do so.

Regarding the fees adding up to "several thousand dollars", that may be true, but that can be gone with the support of one competition.  That's not an overwhelming amount of money, so the accountancy will not be what you may be estimating it to be, and the fiduciary responsibility is similarly considered. 

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Bryan Hunsaker

@Kluv#0 Thank you for your support.

@Tommy J. You have a lot of comments - thank you for taking the time.  I think you aptly said it with "And btw, im so far not concerned with any of the other details. Everything other than the nonchalant (since obviously not much forethought came with it) idea of testing doesnt raise any questions for me." Again, for one further iteration, we don't have an immediate plan to implement the testing, we are simply leaving the option on the table.  Everyone is making too big an issue of this.  If we do take official steps, it will be officially addressed with input from the community.  Regarding the "800 competitors", I also said I'd expect only a fraction of them to officially participate in the organization.  Please see my response to Mike Rinderle which further addresses fiduciary responsibility.  I can assure you, that we're all (board members) contributing to the community at the moment, and there is no intention to profiteer from the organization.  I have a number of businesses and am simply donating my time, and resources. If you had insight into what people like Jedd do for the community it would be enlightening.

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Bryan Hunsaker

@Cannon Thanks for the above comments, and 100% agree.  Apologies as I've been working down from page 3 trying to respond to people.

All, moving forward, let's please keep questions to non-testing issues.

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Bryan Hunsaker

@JHenze646 For the $$, we're still setting things up.  Something will be in place by beginning of 2019.

@WestSlope Thank you for your idea.  Something along those lines could be considered.  In trying to make things as simple as possible to track, not requiring promoters to have to collect nominal fees (in addition to what they already have to do), we've set the $20 amount for the moment.

For those still with concerns about the $20, the money will likely trickle to large events and some local, as well.  If you want to see the sport grow, and become legitimate, I suggest you try to get on board with the $20.  If that is not a priority, then you can still compete without paying the fee but your results won't be tracked and you won't qualify for larger/official events like nationals.  It is a pretty simple divide.

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Mike Rinderle

Thanks for the reply Bryan.

Has there been any consideration of shrinking the number of weight classes until we have enough people competing?  When a 50 year old logistics exec, who doesn't take this stuff super seriously, wins an open weight class at NAGS, you've probably got a couple too many.  Lol.  

At this point, everyone pretty much places in their weight class at most contests.  Its like a participation medal.  For global events like KK, you can support it, but it's rare that there's more than 2-3 people in any one class for local events.  Nice for records, but it really cheapens the contest awards in my opinion.  Who really cares if you're the 120kg champ if guys below you and above you did better?  I know, I know, these days everyone wants a trophy; but I'm a great example of why making it only 2 or three classes for the majority of contests might work better and make the class wins even more special.  

Right now I'm 30lbs below where I was at NAGS, and my grip lifts are all up.  I mean guys from the 93kg class finished 1 and 3 overall at NAGS.  Maybe we don't need so many classes.  Would lower costs too with less awards.  Just a thought.  Not something I'm too pressed about either way.

Again, thanks to all who donate their time to this stuff.

Edited by Mike Rinderle

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