Grip Sport International Implementation

[jchapman]

3 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Possibly the point is there are bigger fish to fry to get this sport off the ground.  I don’t see why Grip Sport would have some rampant, unique false-positive HRT headache that needs a bunch of attention now.  

From a moderation standpoint I don’t see any reason to lock so far. Just please focus on the issue as it relates to Grip Sport development.  

So far, GSI has said they reserve the right to test. That sounds like something that can evolve. And I feel like they’ve been careful to ONLY say that so far. Not speaking for them, that’s just my read on their direction. 

But it isn't unique, the sport of Powerlifting deals with the HRT issue.  Different federations handle it in different ways, allowing potential members to make an informed decision as to where they can fairly compete.

[Cannon]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

But it isn't unique, the sport of Powerlifting deals with the HRT issue.  Different federations handle it in different ways, allowing potential members to make an informed decision as to where they can fairly compete.

A fair point. It’s probably good that you raised the concern. More voices are better than fewer. 

[Fist of Fury]

The problem is that there's no fixed number that is "normal". There's a normal range. Thus you can have low/normal, medium/normal, high/normal etc. So if someone at TRT is having a high/normal level of testosterone I would say that is definitely cheating against a natural athlete who has a low/normal level and there's not a damn thing the natural athlete can do about that (without cheating).

[Mike Rinderle]

3 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

The problem is that there's no fixed number that is "normal". There's a normal range. Thus you can have low/normal, medium/normal, high/normal etc. So if someone at TRT is having a high/normal level of testosterone I would say that is definitely cheating against a natural athlete who has a low/normal level and there's not a damn thing the natural athlete can do about that (without cheating).

Other than beat the guy anyway.  

[Fist of Fury]

Just now, Mike Rinderle said:

Other than beat the guy anyway.  

That's totally besides the point. Point is the compete naturally as nature made us not what people invent in labs.

 

[Cannon]

@Bryan Hunsaker

Is there an email address where comments/concerns about the drug testing can be submitted? Or could Gripboard members PM a committee member who is running point on this issue?

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

That's totally besides the point. Point is the compete naturally as nature made us not what people invent in labs.

 

I agree with competing as we were made and not with synthetics 100%. If you can beat the druggers naturally... even better 

[Nigel Blackburn]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

 

 

[jchapman]

43 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

That's totally besides the point. Point is the compete naturally as nature made us not what people invent in labs.

 

I get you are coming from.  At some point, there has to be a line drawn.  But not everyone will agree with where that line is.  What about the Type 1 Diabetic using insulin?  Or the woman with hypothyroidism?  Or someone who broke their wrist and had it surgically repaired?  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jchapman said:

I get you are coming from.  At some point, there has to be a line drawn.  But not everyone will agree with where that line is.  What about the Type 1 Diabetic using insulin?  Or the woman with hypothyroidism?  Or someone who broke their wrist and had it surgically repaired?  

If it’s an anabolic substance... that’s the line! If it improves strength and performance and recovery and it comes from a needle and a pill.... that’s not sold in GNC then that’s the criteria. People get very silly with this... comparing steroids or HGH  to creatine or protein powder Or aminos and callin them anywhere in the same realm. The latter comes from food... the former are hormones that build mountainous power possibility unnaturally.We all know what juice is and what it does.... that’s the criteria to go by. Not hypothyroidism meds or diabetic insulin. These have no bearing on strength competition

[jchapman]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

If it’s an anabolic substance... that’s the line! If it improves strength and performance and recovery and it comes from a needle and a pill.... that’s not sold in GNC then that’s the criteria. People get very silly with this... comparing steroids or HGH  to creatine or protein powder Or aminos and callin them anywhere in the same realm. The latter comes from food... the former are hormones that build mountainous power possibility unnaturally.We all know what juice is and what it does.... that’s the criteria to go by. Not hypothyroidism meds or diabetic insulin. These have no bearing on strength competition

I'm not being silly.  Insulin is an anabolic hormone.

[Bryan Hunsaker]

Everyone, holy cow.  You are picking up on the most miniscule piece of what we're addressing!  As @Cannon said, we're leaving the door open.  @jchapman there is no official policy, or anything implemented, so please, let's leave the conjecture and scenarios at the door.  This is not what we're trying to discuss.  Your concerns are noted, and I wouldn't worry about this further.

GSI is not saying it will test this, that or the other - we're only saying that the option is on the table, and we'll assess later.

If you have something constructive to say about the executive summary, or a legitimate concern not related to drug testing, please bring it up.

If you want to DM me on this issue, feel free to do so, but the response will be that there is not an official policy on drug testing, and nothing is being immediately implemented.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, jchapman said:

I'm not being silly.  Insulin is an anabolic hormone.

Not when used for a diabetic.

[Mike Rinderle]

How many members do you expect given the participation level this year?

[Guest]

Sorry @Bryan Hunsaker , just got carried away. Back to business 

[jchapman]

28 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Not when used for a diabetic.

Insulin is an anabolic hormone, regardless of whose body it is in.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Insulin is an anabolic hormone, regardless of whose body it is in.

Either way... we were told to cease the convo... I’m going to comply. You know my stance, whether it matters to anyone or not.

[Bryan Hunsaker]

@Joseph Sullivan Thanks!!

@Mike Rinderle I think @Eric Roussin recently estimated that between 800-1,000 people actively participate in the sport, worldwide.  My hope is that this number is growing, and further that we can get 25%, at least, to participate with GSI.  We're trying to work with local Grip organizations, and will be expanding that effort.  As we do so, we hope that the number of participant members of GSI will grow.  Being honest, a lot of this is a litmus test to figure out how large the community really is, and how strong the desire is to grow the sport.

We're continuing to run This Week in Grip on YouTube to highlight the community and contests, and to promote the GSI page on Instagram, with similar goals.  We have 500 followers, on Instagram, already.  We're running The Grip Games, consistently, on Instagram with good participation.  We actually have a cash prize version of the Games running, now, through October, hoping to show people that GSI is supporting athletes.  All of that is coming from personal money.

As in business, we can't accurately forecast what will happen, but we believe there's enough support for and interest in Grip, that GSI will garner some of it, and the sport will grow through its efforts. 

[jchapman]

53 minutes ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

Everyone, holy cow.  You are picking up on the most miniscule piece of what we're addressing!  As @Cannon said, we're leaving the door open.  @jchapman there is no official policy, or anything implemented, so please, let's leave the conjecture and scenarios at the door.  This is not what we're trying to discuss.  Your concerns are noted, and I wouldn't worry about this further.

GSI is not saying it will test this, that or the other - we're only saying that the option is on the table, and we'll assess later.

If you have something constructive to say about the executive summary, or a legitimate concern not related to drug testing, please bring it up.

If you want to DM me on this issue, feel free to do so, but the response will be that there is not an official policy on drug testing, and nothing is being immediately implemented.

Thanks for the response Bryan.  I understand this is a work in progress.  But, if you didn't want to discuss drug testing, why did you post this in a discussion forum and ask for constructive feedback?  Can you see that stating world records and national champions may be drug tested is different than saying "there is not an official policy on drug testing, and nothing is being immediately implemented".  Wasn't that in itself constructive?

[Mike Rinderle]

1 hour ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

@Joseph Sullivan Thanks!!

@Mike Rinderle I think @Eric Roussin recently estimated that between 800-1,000 people actively participate in the sport, worldwide.  My hope is that this number is growing, and further that we can get 25%, at least, to participate with GSI.  We're trying to work with local Grip organizations, and will be expanding that effort.  As we do so, we hope that the number of participant members of GSI will grow.  Being honest, a lot of this is a litmus test to figure out how large the community really is, and how strong the desire is to grow the sport.

We're continuing to run This Week in Grip on YouTube to highlight the community and contests, and to promote the GSI page on Instagram, with similar goals.  We have 500 followers, on Instagram, already.  We're running The Grip Games, consistently, on Instagram with good participation.  We actually have a cash prize version of the Games running, now, through October, hoping to show people that GSI is supporting athletes.  All of that is coming from personal money.

As in business, we can't accurately forecast what will happen, but we believe there's enough support for and interest in Grip, that GSI will garner some of it, and the sport will grow through its efforts. 

That's several thousand dollars per year.  Is there a plan/budget in place on how that money will be used?  Will there be a report available to members at the end of each year to show where the money went?  I know all the PL and strongman feds make similar reports available to paid members upon request.  I would definitely have someone who is a good accountant on top of that to protect yourselves.

I would strongly suggest setting up a 501 (C)(7) if you haven't already.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Mike Rinderle

[Shoggoth]

I see this as a fracturing of the existing competition not expansion. How exactly does this grow the sport with excluded athletes and additional expenses?

[Fist of Fury]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

I get you are coming from.  At some point, there has to be a line drawn.  But not everyone will agree with where that line is.  What about the Type 1 Diabetic using insulin?  Or the woman with hypothyroidism?  Or someone who broke their wrist and had it surgically repaired?  

Yes it's sad but as I said I don't think it's a human right to be able to compete in sports as a proffession. It's a privilege. Some people are not made to be great at certain things, while others are. 

[Mike Rinderle]

Btw, unless someone on the committee is an accountant, or you can find one to donate their time; that will cost more than you will collect in fees.  Which brings me to my point on an earlier thread, gripsort is too small for this.  You need a critical mass of a few thousand people or the management and fiduciary responsibilities far outweigh the fees collected.

[Kluv#0]

All I know is the committee members are well-established and well-respected. Iam looking forward to the new organization and sure there will be possible bumps that will need smoothing over but step in right direction. Not a PSA but grip has bettered my life so freakin much.

[climber511]

I was on the NAGS committee for a long time and I am happy to see all this finally coming to fruition.  Do i think everything proposed is perfect - probably not but a start must be made.    A "sport" run by an all volunteer board run thru a forum is never going to work.   We have tried doing it this way for a long time now and it hasn't worked - it's time for something different.

A couple questions

Is there a website yet ?  My googlefu is weak.

The current Top 50 lists - are these going to be the events that are tracked under the new organization?  And will the current results be kept until such time as they are beaten down?  I'm holding Gripmas with the intention of offering as many of the events as possible on that list - I prefer not to offer any of those whose future is only going to last 3 weeks until 2019 begins.  If there are additional events I would try to offer them as is available equipment is possible.