Dynamic Pinch Training

[Boulderbrew]

Has anyone ever heard of a pinch training device that forces the user to actually go through a concentric and eccentric range? For key pinch we have the TTK, for crush we have grippers. By now it seems like someone has certainly built one of these. When I train pinch, all I do is reps or isometric holds. I would imagine having the ability to incorporate some dynamic movement would be beneficial. Just spit balling over here...don't mind me. 

[Climber028]

Someone made a device sort of like ttk but big enough for the whole hand and posted prototypes in a thread here but I can't seem to find it. I suppose you could also put some large plating on the end of a pony clamp and try that tho it's unfortunately not parallel.

[climber511]

I have had one of David Horne's / my own design for years now.  I think David called it "Tombstone" or some such - it uses one of David's grippers as resistance.  I find it easier on my joints than a steady diet of Isometric work - and it seems to have helped.

[DAVE101]

Yeah, @Squeezus talks about dynamic pinch trianing here.

14 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

Someone made a device sort of like ttk but big enough for the whole hand and posted prototypes in a thread here but I can't seem to find it. I suppose you could also put some large plating on the end of a pony clamp and try that tho it's unfortunately not parallel.

Yep, CannonPowerWorks sells these with all the parts in one place.

Also, TTK is big enough for the whole hand...

Edited September 9, 2018 by DAVE101

[Boulderbrew]

2 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Yeah, @Squeezus talks about dynamic pinch trianing here.

Yep, CannonPowerWorks sells these with all the parts in one place.

Well both of those sources are training more of the thumb in a TTK style that would translate to key pinching. I’m talking about something that I can put my whole hand on.

[Boulderbrew]

17 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

Someone made a device sort of like ttk but big enough for the whole hand and posted prototypes in a thread here but I can't seem to find it. I suppose you could also put some large plating on the end of a pony clamp and try that tho it's unfortunately not parallel.

Are you talking about @Adam Juncker ?

[Boulderbrew]

8 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I have had one of David Horne's / my own design for years now.  I think David called it "Tombstone" or some such - it uses one of David's grippers as resistance.  I find it easier on my joints than a steady diet of Isometric work - and it seems to have helped.

Cool, I don’t think I have seen one.

[DAVE101]

20 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said:

Well both of those sources are training more of the thumb in a TTK style that would translate to key pinching. I’m talking about something that I can put my whole hand on.

Just how big are those mits of yours Tanner? =P

TTK can be 4 finger pinch or key pinch. Or are you merely trying to get more finger pads on there? For the Pony Clamp, you might use whatever size plating that gets your desired surface area.

Edited September 9, 2018 by DAVE101

[Boulderbrew]

8 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Just how big are those mits of yours Tanner? =P

TTK can be 4 finger pinch or key pinch. Or are you merely trying to get more finger pads on there? For the Pony Clamp, you might use whatever size plating that gets your desired surface area.

Yeah I’m talking about something bigger than that so that all my fingers can fit. Also I’m not a big fan of the plane TTK/pony clamp moves through. It would be cool to have a dynamic version of the adjustable pinch that Adam Junker made. 

[Boulderbrew]

Also, if both the thumb and figure sides could be squeezed independent of the other that would be interesting. I realize the device I’m creating in my mind would be difficult to build. Just a fun thought project 

[Adam Juncker]

2 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

Also, if both the thumb and figure sides could be squeezed independent of the other that would be interesting. I realize the device I’m creating in my mind would be difficult to build. Just a fun thought project 

@richcottrell had a great idea a few years ago for a dynamic pinch device in which the pinch surfaces are always parallel through the ROM.  I made a few based on his idea and I think it works quite well.  Its the Cine-Pinch.  I'm not on the board a whole lot anymore but you are welcome to PM me if you are interested in making something custom like this.  I always like doing custom work.  

[JHenze646]

Here is a good thread.

 

 

7 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

Also, if both the thumb and figure sides could be squeezed independent of the other that would be interesting. I realize the device I’m creating in my mind would be difficult to build. Just a fun thought project 

I would love to hear your ideas on this. I haven’t materialized mine yet but I keep thinking.

[Climber028]

Ah yes, that was the thread. I tried to make something like this with springs and it never was viable. I also think the big challenge is that the amount of skin in contact during a pinch varies depending on the width so you would have a lot of sliding friction in the skin during the eccentric portion and it seems easy to get tears when going heavy. The other thing I played with was a stirrup type device, but placing the thumb on a table and pinching upwards until the device hits the bottom of the table. It's better than finger rolls but still not ideal

[climber511]

Somewhere around the 6 minute mark shows what I''m talking about.

[Donc101]

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

Somewhere around the 6 minute mark shows what I''m talking about.

David’s tool looks like a great training implement. Really good idea.

[Adam Juncker]

14 hours ago, climber511 said:

Somewhere around the 6 minute mark shows what I''m talking about.

Saw @Kluv#0 doing these the other day.  I have not done these personally, but I think it is an excellent way to training the movement.  

[Adam Juncker]

15 hours ago, Climber028 said:

Ah yes, that was the thread. I tried to make something like this with springs and it never was viable. I also think the big challenge is that the amount of skin in contact during a pinch varies depending on the width so you would have a lot of sliding friction in the skin during the eccentric portion and it seems easy to get tears when going heavy. The other thing I played with was a stirrup type device, but placing the thumb on a table and pinching upwards until the device hits the bottom of the table. It's better than finger rolls but still not ideal

Yes, your hand does move along the pinch surface throughout the movement.  I have mitigated this on my device by mechanically restricting the ROM and using a piece of suede to protect my skin. I restrict the minimum width to about .25" - .375" smaller than my current pinch width.  I don't go very heavy with mine, I tried and did not see any benefit.  Others have complained about pain in the thumb when going heavy with the TTK and I believe (IMHO) you risk some De Quervain's Tenosynovitis from going too heavy.   I set a modest weight and do 20 reps directly after my pinch lift, it gives a nice pump.  I'm working on trying to make my thumb pads obnoxiously big as of late.  

I believe Gil originally designed the stirrup to be used as you are describing too.  

[Boulderbrew]

2 hours ago, Adam Juncker said:

 I set a modest weight and do 20 reps directly after my pinch lift, it gives a nice pump.  I'm working on trying to make my thumb pads obnoxiously big as of late.  

I am scrambling to find something to help my pinch. I’m so bad at the flask and somehow I’m even worse than I was last year leading up to King Kong. Yikes haha

[Boulderbrew]

18 hours ago, JHenze646 said:

 

Here is a good thread

 

Perfect, thanks! I remember that thread now.

[Climber028]

6 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

I am scrambling to find something to help my pinch. I’m so bad at the flask and somehow I’m even worse than I was last year leading up to King Kong. Yikes haha

I'm no pinch expert so take this with a grain of salt, but I found improvements just by cycling through as many different pinch widths as possible. I also work with actual climbing holds on a loading pin with weight and I feel like the variance of shapes and sizes is helpful.

[Adam Juncker]

On 9/10/2018 at 1:45 AM, Boulderbrew said:

I am scrambling to find something to help my pinch. I’m so bad at the flask and somehow I’m even worse than I was last year leading up to King Kong. Yikes haha

I have sought this kind of information and it is hard to come by:  Here are a few things that have helped me the most in the last few months:

Pinch, to me anyway, is not just about squeezing with your thumb pad, but using the fingers to drive the pinch surface into your thumb - kind of like a plate curl.  You still have to squeeze as hard as you can with your thumb.  

You obviously want to train with the Flask to get good at the flask, but other devices are helpful too.  I found that the DHWOG Gold bar is really easy on the skin and is about the same width as the flask.  

Looking back at my log on here, for a long time I was enamored with timed holds - with mixed results on gains.  Timed holds, to be sure, can be really hard on the skin which presents both physical and mental limits on your ability to train.  I'm not bashing timed holds here, just telling my experience with them.  

My prep for King Kong is very simple: Once per week I do 8-10 heavy singles on the Flask, lifting to contest height and doing my best to mimic contest conditions.  On another day of the week, I will use the Gold Bar for 5 sets of 3 with a weight that I can move quickly.  It is still a relatively heavy weight, but I want to move the weight quickly so this forces me to to apply maximal pressure.  

I try very hard to add weight each week to the Flask, but the Gold bar is more open ended - I really desire to move it quickly and feel my fingers "dig" into the surface.  

You may just need to clean your flask too, start over with a fresh surface.  

[Boulderbrew]

22 hours ago, Adam Juncker said:

My prep for King Kong is very simple: Once per week I do 8-10 heavy singles on the Flask, lifting to contest height and doing my best to mimic contest conditions.  On another day of the week, I will use the Gold Bar for 5 sets of 3 with a weight that I can move quickly.  It is still a relatively heavy weight, but I want to move the weight quickly so this forces me to to apply maximal pressure.  

I like the idea of incorporating a heavy speed day. I actually used to do this on the Crusher, not sure why it slipped my mind to try it with the flask...wish I had a Gold Bar

[richcottrell]

On 9/9/2018 at 3:07 AM, Adam Juncker said:

@richcottrell had a great idea a few years ago for a dynamic pinch device in which the pinch surfaces are always parallel through the ROM.  I made a few based on his idea and I think it works quite well.  Its the Cine-Pinch.  I'm not on the board a whole lot anymore but you are welcome to PM me if you are interested in making something custom like this.  I always like doing custom work.  

thanks for the mention... yes I still think the TTK -- as originally designed by Warran Tetting and currently sold by Iron Mind -- is not the "End All and  Be All" for dynamic pinch.  I still have my wooden Cine Pinch with the parallel design where the weights are traveling 100% vertical, as well as the metal version which Adam Junker made me with the simpler lever design like the TTK but the pitch surface uses the "trapeze" idea to keep the close traveling parallel.  

While I still think either of those designs work better then the TTK or the Thumb Screws, I still think there are few tweaks in this design that might make this idea even more "dynamic".

I just do not train enough to give true empirical information.