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Mike Rinderle

Is Squat Depth Overrated? Interesting article

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Mike Rinderle

Obviously, if you are training for, or competing in, a powerlifting meet; depth is critical.  But this is an article by two peeps that know their stuff on why it may not be that important (and maybe even harmful) for others based on their goals and body structure. 

My opinion: everyone should go as deep as they comfortably can.  

https://www.t-nation.com/training/forget-about-squat-depth

 

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Climber028

I would disagree with a lot of that, tho I think a heavy a2g squat isn't necessarily a priority for everyone. I think anybody should be able to do or be working towards an unweighted deep squat, and spending plenty of time in that position for mobility and pelvic floor health reasons but if strength is your objective you'll be fine going just below parallel when the weights get heavy. 

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Mike Rinderle

The article pretty much agrees with you.  Bodyweight ATG squats for everyone.  

If your sport doesn't require you to perform below parallel squats and your hips aren't built to do it with weight, do you really need to go below parallel with near max weight?  Or would you be better off staying just above parallel in a more athletic stance with even heavier weight?  It's an interesting article.  My first reaction was "BLASPHEMY!"  But they make a very strong case.

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Climber028

I don't agree that above parallel is adequate, unless you're either on the path to gaining the required mobility or you are specifically trying to overload your top end strength. 

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Mike Rinderle
2 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

I don't agree that above parallel is adequate, unless you're either on the path to gaining the required mobility or you are specifically trying to overload your top end strength. 

What if your hip joints aren't built to safely go below parallel (about 25% of the white population due to genetics)?

What if you are an offensive lineman who only cares about top end strength in that somewhat shortened range of motion?  Is it worth tearing your hips up and shortening your career to hit an arbitrary bro science depth?

Not arguing with you.  Just curious.  I think everyone should go as low as they can safely.  

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Kluv#0

IMO, regular squats overrated in Gripsport. Look at the top guys and they are not great at squats with the exception of Gil and maybe couple more. Heck, last year at Odd's contest I beat Jon Call( Jujumufu) overall and he squats over 600lbs and he didn't lift an ounce more than me on the axle- that is with me being at 70% health due to sciatica and could barely move and have not done regular squats in a quarter of a century, LOL- meanwhile, he was doing backflips onstage very much healthy!!

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Joseph Sullivan
5 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

What if your hip joints aren't built to safely go below parallel (about 25% of the white population due to genetics)?

What if you are an offensive lineman who only cares about top end strength in that somewhat shortened range of motion?  Is it worth tearing your hips up and shortening your career to hit an arbitrary bro science depth?

Not arguing with you.  Just curious.  I think everyone should go as low as they can safely.  

I agree and concur

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Climber028
7 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

What if your hip joints aren't built to safely go below parallel (about 25% of the white population due to genetics)?

What if you are an offensive lineman who only cares about top end strength in that somewhat shortened range of motion?  Is it worth tearing your hips up and shortening your career to hit an arbitrary bro science depth?

Not arguing with you.  Just curious.  I think everyone should go as low as they can safely.  

So many things to address, not really sure on most. In general I don't think any exercise is good or bad, it all depends on the application and your goals. I was under the impression that hip variation affected a deep squat, not necessarily a normal parallel squat, might need to brush up on some research to discuss that. 

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Aleksandar Milosevic

Not a single sport requires you to be in a full squat position, and there's no reason to train it that way if you're not competing in powerlifting, strongman, or God forbid crossfit. But everyone should be able to squat below parallel just for health reasons. If I'm a long jump athlete, why would I ever do deep squats, when the angle in my knee joint never goes below 120 degrees? Why deep squat 100 kg in the range of motion that I don't need, when I can squat 200 kg easier in the range of motion more specific to my activity?

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Kluv#0

Sorry Mike for veering  off-topic- not my intention:)

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Mike Rinderle
1 minute ago, Kluv#0 said:

Sorry Mike for veering  off-topic- not my intention:)

No worries brother.  I would have liked it, but I'm out of likes.  

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

So many things to address, not really sure on most. In general I don't think any exercise is good or bad, it all depends on the application and your goals. I was under the impression that hip variation affected a deep squat, not necessarily a normal parallel squat, might need to brush up on some research to discuss that. 

Yea, at around 90 degrees of hip flexion, those with deep hip sockets (Celtic Hips) start pretty much grinding bone on bone.  You can go lower, but you are going to tear your hips up if you regularly squat past this point with heavy weight on your back. 

21 minutes ago, Aleksandar Milosevic said:

Not a single sport requires you to be in a full squat position, and there's no reason to train it that way if you're not competing in powerlifting, strongman, or God forbid crossfit. But everyone should be able to squat below parallel just for health reasons. If I'm a long jump athlete, why would I ever do deep squats, when the angle in my knee joint never goes below 120 degrees? Why deep squat 100 kg in the range of motion that I don't need, when I can squat 200 kg easier in the range of motion more specific to my activity?

I agree 100%.  You need full range of motion for life, but not for any sport I can think of, other than maybe climbing.  So everyone should work on hip mobility and be able to do a bodyweight  full squat for sure.  But, if you are looking to increase sport performance outside of powerlifting or olympic lifting, these guys make a pretty compelling case that you are at best wasting time & potential, and at worse risking career ending injury by going too low. 

I would say that the second (above parallel pic) is a much more athletic stance.  I would definitely rather meet a running back or absob a check in that stance than the left one. 

 

 

ROM.jpg

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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JasonL

Its all specificity.  One only needs to train the ROM they need. Some cannot do to genetics, leverage and injuries.  If your a regular Joe, you don't need to train to parallel in the squat or below, y?  You can go to almost parallel. Then do lunges or other glute and ham work to make up for it.  Do what you want.  Pick a sport, arm wrestling :). most guys are not doing full range work for this, why would they?  Genetics and specificity rule and that is coming more and more apparent in todays generation then others.

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climber511

I'm been lucky enough to actually talk to JL about the subject and while the guy might be a musclehead but he's a very smart one.  The issue really comes down to the advent of Powerlifting and it's "parallel" rule.  IF you had never heard of PL what would you think about squat depth?  JL is right that some people are not built to go rock bottom under load - and they shouldn't obviously keep banging on depth and tear themselves up joint wise.   Louie's "sit back" style also changed the way many of us look at "squatting".   The first way I think about a Squat is what do I do when I want something off the bottom shelf of my cupboard.  The trouble starts when we add load and then keep wanting to add more and more weight on the bar and so keep trying to justify less and less depth to make us "feel" stronger.  There is a trend right now back towards "health" in training for the average (especially older) trainee.  Its not all that hard to figure out what squat depth works best for you if you take your ego out of the picture.

 

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