Mike Rinderle Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) I was doing a bunch of DF negatives and thought to myself, "Self, you could probably do a full Dragon Flag if you cut a leg off." So I did. AND I COULD! Very happy with the progress. 6'4", 251 lbs clothed (246 nekid this AM). Oh... I'm old. I am counting this as good, but would like to get an official ruling from @David_wigren @Andrew Dube & @climber511 Level 3 Ninjitsu DF White light or red? Edited August 6, 2018 by Mike Rinderle 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 White light for the one legged guy :). You were getting a little "twist" - be careful of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, climber511 said: White light for the one legged guy :). You were getting a little "twist" - be careful of that. Thanks Chris! Will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 whites 1 red. Almost perfect form, just a slight bend in the hip halfway on the way up. I do that too all the time but I always aspire to have the positive move to be entirely driven by my arms and my lats. That way, the core only works isometrically, which sounds on paper like it would be easier but it’s sctually much harder, and also looks much cooler. End goal is to be able to do it with both legs straight, slight arch in the back and gently touch the ground with your toes with only your scapulas touching the ground. (I arch my back a little, which makes it easier as parts of tour back will touch the ground and take some of the load off. It’s cheating but I use it as a form of progression) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Mike, once you get this lift I’ll race ya to the strict front lever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 You're on Fish! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 14 hours ago, Hopefully said: I have tried to get a strict form full front lever in the past.. And I gave up unfortunately. But I have the deepest respect to anyone who gets there and doesn't weigh like 130. It is quite easily the most difficult thing I have ever tried to accomplish, and I could bang out 10 strict dragon flags or so at the time, along with a respectable bw% weighted pull up. Indeed. From my experience the order of difficulty for most people is dragonflag<human flag<frontlever< full standing abwheel roll out. Assuming they are all strict of course. and the number one tip I would give to someone that wants to excel at body weight lever exercises is, be short. Second tip is be light. However weight is not as important as height. During the past year my weight has fluctuated between 175 lbs and 195 lbs. And I did not experience any difficulty change for levers. It certainly does make a difference for pullups etc, but not for levers. I hypothesize that with an increased weight your waist becomes bigger and a bigger waist is harder to fold. Of course that would only be the case up to a point. Being heavier obviously makes it more difficult. But I’d argue that it’s not as big of a factor as height. If you can’t follow my 1st and 2nd tip, then you’re just going to have to get ape-strong and work years to be able to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, David_wigren said: Indeed. From my experience the order of difficulty for most people is dragonflag<human flag<frontlever< full standing abwheel roll out. Assuming they are all strict of course. and the number one tip I would give to someone that wants to excel at body weight lever exercises is, be short. Second tip is be light. However weight is not as important as height. During the past year my weight has fluctuated between 175 lbs and 195 lbs. And I did not experience any difficulty change for levers. It certainly does make a difference for pullups etc, but not for levers. I hypothesize that with an increased weight your waist becomes bigger and a bigger waist is harder to fold. Of course that would only be the case up to a point. Being heavier obviously makes it more difficult. But I’d argue that it’s not as big of a factor as height. If you can’t follow my 1st and 2nd tip, then you’re just going to have to get ape-strong and work years to be able to get it. Some of us haven't got years. Give me until next summer. Lol Edited August 8, 2018 by Mike Rinderle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I've never done what I would call a "good" front lever. I can do one leg out and a "straddle" pretty well. Good "enough" back lever but not front. I've done standing ab wheel with "pretty good" form for reps but there's a weak link someplace for the front lever. I can't really narrow it down to a particular body part that fails - I can't can't manage one with decent form.. Oh 6' 2" - 200# and older than dirt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 27 minutes ago, climber511 said: I've never done what I would call a "good" front lever. I can do one leg out and a "straddle" pretty well. Good "enough" back lever but not front. I've done standing ab wheel with "pretty good" form for reps but there's a weak link someplace for the front lever. I can't really narrow it down to a particular body part that fails - I can't can't manage one with decent form.. Oh 6' 2" - 200# and older than dirt. I can do one curled into a ball. I call it the cannonball lever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 For me human flag is the hardest of those 4, that requires much more pressing ability than the others which I don't really have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Hmm, maybe it’s just me. I can hold a perfect human flag with straight arms and body completely parallel to the floor and hold it for 7-10 seconds. If I spread my legs apart I can even do it with a person weighing up to 70 kg standing on me. I can do a few half decent reps on the dragon flag. I tried yesterday holding a front lever and my butt was sagging a bit and my arms were bent, can hold it probably 20-30 seconds with perfect form with only one leg out. But ab wheel rollouts are just NO WAY. I’m not even close. I have to put a big rubber band between my foot and my shoulders to aid me just to be able to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Hmm, maybe it’s just me. I can hold a perfect human flag with straight arms and body completely parallel to the floor and hold it for 7-10 seconds. If I spread my legs apart I can even do it with a person weighing up to 70 kg standing on me. I can do a few half decent reps on the dragon flag. I tried yesterday holding a front lever and my butt was sagging a bit and my arms were bent, can hold it probably 20-30 seconds with perfect form with only one leg out. But ab wheel rollouts are just NO WAY. I’m not even close. I have to put a big rubber band between my foot and my shoulders to aid me just to be able to do it. Man biology is crazy. I can hold a front lever but I worked on it for years, dragon flags I can do a bunch, ab wheel rollouts aren't a problem and I can't even hold a straddle or tuck human flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) When I was young I could do the Flag easily (I was much lighter then) but an ab wheel rollouts were quite hard. Now it's reversed (I can't even do a Flag anymore) but just last track season I did 5 pretty good full roll outs for the kids - I wonder what in my training has been so different as to cause that. I always find these kinds of things fascinating - why one person is good at say grippers but sucks at pinch etc. Or why one muscle group etc is seemingly out of proportion strength wise to others. Edited August 8, 2018 by climber511 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) Genetics are fascinating. Even though 99.9% of our DNA is exactly the same as every other human walking the planet, we are all so different. Of course that 0.1% contains more than 3 million differences between you and any other random human. Still, with 99.9% exactly the same, you would think we wouldn't all be so different. Edited August 9, 2018 by Mike Rinderle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 As for the front lever, I really feel my horrible attempts in my rear delts and the very top of my triceps. Maybe straight arm pull downs and straight arm kick backs with heavy weight would help? It's not really a range of motion most people train much for strength. That and lots of targeted rear delt and lat work might help. You guys obviously have the core strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said: As for the front lever, I really feel my horrible attempts in my rear delts and the very top of my triceps. Maybe straight arm pull downs and straight arm kick backs with heavy weight would help? It's not really a range of motion most people train much for strength. That and lots of targeted rear delt and lat work might help. You guys obviously have the core strength. The long head of the triceps is a shoulder flexor and big weakness with people, also prevents doing a slow strict muscle up. Straight arm, like actually locked straight arm kickbacks very slowly are brutal for these. I also find most trained people have strong enough abs it's usually weak or inactivated lats that causes the trouble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Progress. 3/4 Dragon Fly and a slow Negative. DF As strong as my core is, I think I could smash some really big shoes right now @David_wigren If only my shoulder wasn't so jacked up. Weighed in at 242.4 this morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said: Progress. 3/4 Dragon Fly and a slow Negative. DF As strong as my core is, I think I could smash some really big shoes right now @David_wigren If only my shoulder wasn't so jacked up. Weighed in at 242.4 this morning. Getting strong quick! Dude, you’re basically there! I’ve seen some guys claim similar range of motion to be a full rep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 40 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Getting strong quick! Dude, you’re basically there! I’ve seen some guys claim similar range of motion to be a full rep. Rocky only went about that far in Rocky IV. But I want a full one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said: Rocky only went about that far in Rocky IV. But I want a full one! I know Adrian thinks it’s suicide but I believe in you man, you’re ready to take down Drago! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Adrian says anybody who can't get their legs to horizontal on a Dragon Flag deserves to die at the hands of Drago! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Best attempts yet I think number 3 is best. Almost there. Can I get a ruling? Fatty boombalatty dragon flags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 8/12/2018 at 2:10 PM, Mike Rinderle said: Best attempts yet I think number 3 is best. Almost there. Can I get a ruling? Fatty boombalatty dragon flags @David_wigren @climber511 @Andrew Dube Can I get a ruling? I've heard of the Russian judges stalling but I never thought the US, Canadian, and Swedish judges would leave me hangin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 You're close but no cigar yet. I think your hands are still too high - grab under the bench you are laying on - I think that would help you get more lat and less arm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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