Alawadhi Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 10 hours ago, riccardomagni said: Good point. He is very strong. Who's KK? 10 hours ago, riccardomagni said: Odd Haugen does not have one right now. He had one and was borrowing it from Kevin Bussi. He would love to get another one, however... There are 7 world wide. 4 I believe in the UK and three went to America. One exact replica done by the Holle's for Laine Snook. That replica and one that was in the UK (belonged to Steve Garderner) is now settling in Dubai with me. My question, do you know who has the dumbbells in the US besides Bussi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 13 hours ago, riccardomagni said: Agreed. Long flight can make a difference. It looks like IM Axle is about 10kg more difficult than other axles. The ironmind axle is hollow. Not sure about other brands but if they are solid then that would explain some of the discrepancy. The more centralized the weight is the easier the lift, everything else equal. It also makes a highly noticeable difference if you use quality spin collars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riccardomagni Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Alawadhi said: Who's KK? There are 7 world wide. 4 I believe in the UK and three went to America. One exact replica done by the Holle's for Laine Snook. That replica and one that was in the UK (belonged to Steve Garderner) is now settling in Dubai with me. My question, do you know who has the dumbbells in the US besides Bussi? No, I don't know where there are in the USA. KK is King Kong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alawadhi Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Mikael Siversson said: The ironmind axle is hollow. Not sure about other brands but if they are solid then that would explain some of the discrepancy. The more centralized the weight is the easier the lift, everything else equal. It also makes a highly noticeable difference if you use quality spin collars. Yeah that's what I have heard IM axle is a pipe covered in light oil or something. My friend Honk has a 40KG axle. Solid. So is a hollow easier or harder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Tank Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) The most difficult Axle from serially produced Painted with a smooth special paint, grip chalk does not stick Dimensions are made by my order 155 cm/10 kg/50 mm Edited May 30, 2018 by Alex Tank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Tank Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) New Apollon Axle Irondmind = New Axle Beargrip The same surface and difficulty of lifting In the photo and video Axle Beargrip 222,5 kg Edited May 30, 2018 by Alex Tank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 My "guess" from years ago is that John Wood had one and Mark Henry had one, besides Kevin Bussi's... Steve Gardener would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Alawadhi said: Yeah that's what I have heard IM axle is a pipe covered in light oil or something. My friend Honk has a 40KG axle. Solid. So is a hollow easier or harder? Hollow is harder as its lighter. For example lets say you have a hollow 15k bar and a solid 30k bar. That means with the lighter bar you need to add 15k of plate weight to make up the difference (adding to its tendency to roll out of your hands). Its the same principle as for comparing two solid bells of the same weight and handle dimensions but made with different material. The one made with the lower density material will be harder to lift. Try lifting a 78k bell made of wood and you will see what I mean. Needless to say the above applies when all else is equal (eg the gripping surface produce comparable friction). Edited May 31, 2018 by Mikael Siversson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) On 5/28/2018 at 2:45 PM, riccardomagni said: Ironmind bar is 50mm and no knurling. Covered almost in a light oil to prevent rust. The problem, and this is after going to Russia last year and also talking to the 3 Russian guys that I have competed against including Alexey, is that many of the Russians train on a thinner bar that is actually a type of pipe. This can bend much easier than an axle. ANY bend in the bar makes a double overhand lift much easier because instead of rolling out of the hands, the bar will either not roll or roll into the hand. The Ironmind Axle won't bend unless you drop it on a box or power rack. Does that make sense? I'm confused by the light oil comment. Every decent bar I've ever purchased comes with a light coating of oil to prevent rust. Heck, the $30 axle I bought from Titan had a light coating of oil on it. It's for storage and shipping, so somebody doesn't get a new bar with rust on it. You wipe it off before using it. I've lifted a few IM axles over the years at contests. Not a single one of them was oiled and they all held chalk nicely. Now, it's a bare steel bar, so if you don't want it to rust or season, you should give it a good wire brushing and wipe it down with a little oil once every several months or so (depending on humidity where you live). But you wipe it off afterwards. You don't leave it coated in slippery oil. Same goes for any bare steel bar. I have a bare steel Rogue DL bar that is the same. IM equipment isn't magically harder than anything else just because they charge more for it. Hollow will be slightly harder than solid for the reasons given above, but most axles are hollow. It's a 2" diameter, bare steel, smooth, hollow axle. Every 2" diameter bare steel, smooth, hollow axle will be exactly the same difficulty. Unless of course you decide to rub it down with KY Jelly before using it. Physics is physics. Edited May 31, 2018 by Mike Rinderle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoBuhl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 hours ago, Alawadhi said: Who's KK? There are 7 world wide. 4 I believe in the UK and three went to America. One exact replica done by the Holle's for Laine Snook. That replica and one that was in the UK (belonged to Steve Garderner) is now settling in Dubai with me. My question, do you know who has the dumbbells in the US besides Bussi? There is another Holle Replica here in germany. I had (maybe have) the chance to buy it. But it is actually too expensive for me. I lifted it 2 years ago after german championship tilted. But only a few mm off the floor. Then i stopped because my neck hurts :) Grip is stronger than every other muscle on my body xD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoBuhl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 15 hours ago, Alex Tank said: New Apollon Axle Irondmind = New Axle Beargrip The same surface and difficulty of lifting In the photo and video Axle Beargrip 222,5 kg hey Alex, when are you going to smash the axle world record? You are the strongest thickbar guy in the world. Thanks for uploading all the bad ass videos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alawadhi Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 16 hours ago, Hubgeezer said: My "guess" from years ago is that John Wood had one and Mark Henry had one, besides Kevin Bussi's... Steve Gardener would know. From my memory I remember John sold it. Maybe all three. 12 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said: Hollow is harder as its lighter. For example lets say you have a hollow 15k bar and a solid 30k bar. That means with the lighter bar you need to add 15k of plate weight to make up the difference (adding to its tendency to roll out of your hands). Its the same principle as for comparing two solid bells of the same weight and handle dimensions but made with different material. The one made with the lower density material will be harder to lift. Try lifting a 78k bell made of wood and you will see what I mean. Needless to say the above applies when all else is equal (eg the gripping surface produce comparable friction). Thanks I understand now. 4 hours ago, MarcoBuhl said: There is another Holle Replica here in germany. I had (maybe have) the chance to buy it. But it is actually too expensive for me. I lifted it 2 years ago after german championship tilted. But only a few mm off the floor. Then i stopped because my neck hurts Grip is stronger than every other muscle on my body xD From my understanding. Laine Snook ordered exact replica from the Holle's. He had made it once it didn't turn exactly as per Laine expectation. He had to do it again (and pay for it). Second time was still the same. Third (or forth can't remember maybe @LAINE SNOOK can say?) time it was done correctly and that is the one Laine used along with the original Steve's one for a double lift. I have them both they are identical maybe Laine one is slight;y heavier 2 or 3 Kg. So my question is, do you know if that dumbbell you wanted to buy is the one's Laine got them made at first? Lifting it is very hard well done. Any video for us video holics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAINE SNOOK Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Alawadhi said: From my memory I remember John sold it. Maybe all three. Thanks I understand now. From my understanding. Laine Snook ordered exact replica from the Holle's. He had made it once it didn't turn exactly as per Laine expectation. He had to do it again (and pay for it). Second time was still the same. Third (or forth can't remember maybe @LAINE SNOOK can say?) time it was done correctly and that is the one Laine used along with the original Steve's one for a double lift. I have them both they are identical maybe Laine one is slight;y heavier 2 or 3 Kg. So my question is, do you know if that dumbbell you wanted to buy is the one's Laine got them made at first? Lifting it is very hard well done. Any video for us video holics? Hello All, Nathan made my Millennium replica - now owned by Bader - it weighs 106kgs/234lbs, so is heavier than a standard Millennium. Nathan also made me an exact replica of Apollons Wheels, made to specifications (extensive) provided by Dr Randall Strossen. It is these wheels that proved to be very difficult to make, and yes, many where made before they got them to the exact weight. I know that Rob Blair has a Millennium copy at the Commando Temple in London - it was purchased from its previous owner on the quite untrue claim that it had belonged to me - I think the confusion lay in the fact that Nathan made other copies using the mould he used to make my 'original' copy. It also weighs 106kgs. These are the Apollons Wheels that Nathan made for me - 166kgs/366lbs. Laine 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashtan Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Laine, what is diameter this axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAINE SNOOK Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 49mm - the same as the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAINE SNOOK Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Apollon's Wheels, Apollon's Axle™: Setting the Record Straight by Randall J. Strossen, IronMind Enterprises, Inc. © 2009 2009-05-14 10:09:00 The beginning point for all of this is Louis Uni's Apollon Railway Car Wheels, usually referred to as Apollon's Wheels, a challenge lift from the past, and with so much discussion about who has the record on modern-day descendants of this feat of strength, it's time to set the record straight. The authentic Apollon Wheels. IronMind® | Randall J. Strossen photo. In fact, Paul Ohl took on this challenge, with the following statement, which he sent to IronMind® to help foster further comment: The Apollon Axle: Setting the Record Straight by Paul Ohl President Fortissimus The Apollon Axle is an important piece in the history of the sport of strongman. And it needs to be treated as such. The original Axle was a set of railway car wheels connected by an axle. Louis Uni (Apollon), a French professional strongman, procured himself that implement circa 1892 and considered it as a ready-made barbell. Axle and wheels weighted 366 lbs (166 kg). Maximum diameter of the wheels was 26 inches. Axle bar was 1.93 inch (49 mm ) thick. There is absolutely no evidence that Louis Uni ever cleaned, even less jerked or pressed that Axle himself. The only lifts officially recorded on the original Axle came from a French [lifter] (Charles Rigoulot ), in Paris, on March 3, 1930, and two Americans (John Davis, September 13, 1949, Paris, and Norbert Schemansky, October 1954, Lille, France). Schemansky becoming the first ever to jerk the Axle three consecutive times. All three men were at one time or another World Weightlifting champions and weighted less than 240 lb. Given the historical significance of the Apollon Axle, a record can only be so considered official if done on an exact replica of the original Axle. At Fortissimus, we have introduced the IronMind® Axle as part of the Overhead World Challenge and will consider a record if done on the official IronMind® bar with steel wheels on each side, the wheels measuring exactly 26 inches in diameter. However we will name the event accordingly: IRONMIND® AXLE LIFT. For the time being we consider that the standing WR at the Apollon Axle is held by Zydrunas Savickas (2007) at 440 lbs (200 kg). If that record is to be challenged it must be on a similar equipment. ### In Reply to The Apollon Axle: Setting The Record Straight by Randall J. Strossen IronMind® Enterprises, Inc. At IronMind®, we agree with much, but not all, of what Paul Ohl has written—and this is a situation when the details, we think, make all the difference. Typically, whether they give him credit or not, people addressing the subject call on what David P. Willoughby wrote about Apollon's Wheels in his classic book The Super Athletes, and Paul Ohl's statement follows in this tradition. I never gave some of the details much thought until Craig Holle and his brothers pointed out that based on their calculations, the standard measurements everyone repeats for these most famous wheels did not compute. I was so intrigued by the Holles's analysis that Elizabeth Hammond and I arranged to see the actual object in question, the original Apollon's Wheels, in the flesh, with the objective of seeing who was right: the Holle brothers with their calculations or the oft-repeated numbers about 26-inch wheels, for example. And as one of the very few people in the world who has seen, touched and measured the actual Apollon's Wheels, I can attest that not all of the most commonly repeated dimensions are accurate . . . the Holles were right. Incidentally, on numerous occasions, the Apollon's Wheels used at the Arnold are described with such phrases as "an exact replica," and then direct comparisons are made between the performance of that strongman contest's competitors and the historic performances on the actual set of wheels. Of course, even the most cursory comparison of what is used at the Arnold and the now-often-scanned photo of John Davis with the real deal overhead will show that they are about as similar in size and appearance as my upper arm and Bill Kazmaier's. Presumably, these comments about being "an exact replica" reflect Terry Todd in his role as the promoter, not Terry Todd as the student of iron game history, and these misstatements aside, I would find it hard to imagine Dr. Todd not being the first to agree that one is not a cookie cutter of the other. Without getting sidetracked about whether or not Uni himself lifted them, let's focus on the key features that make the Apollon Wheels so hard to hoist: 1) the nearly 2-inch diameter of the bar 2) its smooth surface and 3) the fact that the weights (wheels) did not revolve. It should also be noted that among both lifters and authorities in the field, the oversize diameter of the bar has frequently been cited as the biggest challenge for most people. That this is the case is reinforced by the fact that cleaning the weight has generally been regarded as much harder than jerking it. Notably, even though weighing under 180 pounds, Tommy Kono jerked the actual Apollon Wheels when they were placed on his shoulders (done because Tommy said he knew he couldn't clean the Apollon Wheels, but he thought he could jerk them). After the Apollon Wheels were dropped and the bar bent, that added another level of complexity, but the real point is that to originally qualify as making the lift, the Apollon Wheels had to be cleaned and then jerked. Cleaned - as opposed to shouldered in the continental style - is the critical element here, and since there was no rule against using a switch grip, Davis's grip was nothing more than a thinking man's way to make up for having small hands. It should also be understood that many modern-day cleans would not pass muster in the days when the actual Apollon Wheels were being attempted . . . the bar touching the body on its way up to the shoulders was cause for disqualification back then. Incidentally, although Charles Rigoulot was an Olympic champion and a world record holder, he was never a world champion in weightlifting - at least not as far as either the International Weightlifting Federation or I know. This is not central to this story, but it's another example of how what has been presented as fact is not. In 1994, IronMind® developed a straightforward way to recreate the basic challenge posed by the Apollon Wheels, while also providing all the benefits of thick bar training. IronMind® specifically chose the name Apollon's Axle™ because while we certainly understood we were not replicating the Apollon Wheels, we just as certainly understood our historic link to that piece of equipment as we consciously replicated the most vital of the features that made the Apollon's Wheels such a challenge to lift. And in the earliest days of people copying the name IronMind® had coined, we defended the mark quite vigorously, but as time went on and as this piece of equipment proved its popularity from Latvia to Los Angeles, IronMind® chose to sit back and enjoy the fact that what had begun as a proprietary (even if descriptive) product name had gained such a widespread following that it had become a generic: Kleenex, here we come. For years, IronMind® advertised with certainty that our Apollon's Axle™ was used in more strongman contests than all others combined, and while we no longer track this statistic, the fact remains that this bar - by any name - captures the essential qualities of what is an historic challenge of enduring interest. Earlier, we had explained that the IFSA bar, introduced in 2007, is 1-3/8 inches in diameter and it is knurled. So, coming full circle on this, we find it more than curious that an apparatus (IFSA's) with such divergence from the original challenge object (Apollon's Wheels), and with such a faint track record, is put forth as the standard on this challenge. This seems inconsistent with Fortissimus's stated philosophy of being both familiar with and respectful of strongman history. In the end, this is really very simple and straightforward: there is only one original set of Apollon's Wheels and while the set of wheels used at the Arnold differs in very significant ways from the original, the IFSA set has even less in common with the genuine article, and its already low comparative value is further eroded by its nearly non-existent history of use. On the other hand, the Apollon's Axle™—created by IronMind® many years before either of these other pieces of apparatus saw the light of day—faithfully presents the smooth bar of such mighty dimensions that help make lifting the actual Apollon Wheels such a challenge. Lock on some weight and you're good to go, which is exactly why it fully merits the name it was christened with, Apollon's Axle™. And beyond the irrefutable fact that world records done on this bar are the world records for this lift, we also feel that they are very worthy descendants of the lift performed on the actual Apollon Wheels. ### Want to comment on this article or just want to talk strength? Join the IronMind Forum! You can also follow IronMind on Twitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAINE SNOOK Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 That will give you some more information. Laine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Tank Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 3:23 PM, MarcoBuhl said: hey Alex, when are you going to smash the axle world record? You are the strongest thickbar guy in the world. Thanks for uploading all the bad ass videos! Hello! It is not hard to brake records, it is hard to oprain official equipment eligble for records. I prefer to compete against the strongest, I am not so interested in braking the records alone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Tank Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Training Apollone Axle IRONMIND June 2018, St. Petersburg, Russia Edited June 20, 2018 by Alex Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Tank Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Training Dumbbell 62 mm June 2018, Beijing, China Edited June 20, 2018 by Alex Tank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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