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Custom Choker Grippers!

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Climber028

So much speculation, someone just needs to rate a gripper leave it choked for a year then rate it again.

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Chez
32 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

So much speculation, someone just needs to rate a gripper leave it choked for a year then rate it again.

Its been done and the rating comes out the same. Some people have seen differences though. I don't think that is the full picture. If you research the effects of spring compression over a long period of time, you get different answers. I just know a spongy set when I feel one. Even though I'm good with grippers, my set is my weak link. I notice a spongy set right away because its a huge advantage for me. 

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Climber028
32 minutes ago, Chez said:

Its been done and the rating comes out the same. Some people have seen differences though. I don't think that is the full picture. If you research the effects of spring compression over a long period of time, you get different answers. I just know a spongy set when I feel one. Even though I'm good with grippers, my set is my weak link. I notice a spongy set right away because its a huge advantage for me. 

Then someone can spend a fortune on a hydraulic setup with a force plate, calculate the tension at every point and determine spring constant and compare. 

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Chez
45 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

Then someone can spend a fortune on a hydraulic setup with a force plate, calculate the tension at every point and determine spring constant and compare. 

That has also been discussed. Believe me, gripper ratings have been discussed to death. People have thought about measuring the rating at different points since the way we currently do it is only at the closed position. Different brands though have a different feeling through the range of motion even if they have the same close rating. I don't think anyway has gather data on the rating at different points but its been discussed. 

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Climber028

It's a lot of work and probably doesn't have any practical value that would influence training. 

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Chez
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

It's a lot of work and probably doesn't have any practical value that would influence training. 

ya, when you have closed as many grippers as me you just kind of get use to certain traits of certain brands. for example, everyone agrees GHP grippers always feel harder than their rating because they have a stiff set and sweep but this won't show up in the RGC rating. For max closes I like tetting since they are a little narrower and have a softer set and sweep which favors me because I have a strong crush and relatively weak set. 

Edited by Chez
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acorn
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Chez said:

That has also been discussed. Believe me, gripper ratings have been discussed to death. People have thought about measuring the rating at different points since the way we currently do it is only at the closed position. Different brands though have a different feeling through the range of motion even if they have the same close rating. I don't think anyway has gather data on the rating at different points but its been discussed. 

I've done large number of datapoints on a handful of my grippers to help come up with an accurate spring rate formula for one of my adjustable tension prototypes. It is indeed a ton of extra work. Don't have a hydraulic RGC with force plate but my rig is digital yes.

Edited by acorn
missing word
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Adam Juncker
2 hours ago, Climber028 said:

Then someone can spend a fortune on a hydraulic setup with a force plate, calculate the tension at every point and determine spring constant and compare. 

I almost got fired from my last job because I set up the Instron machine to hold the gripper and measure how much force is required to close it. It was going to be awesome too.  

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wobbler

You could always rgc against a few different sized blocks if you got really bored. Probably wouldn' be too much trouble with a digital tension based system.

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gripmaniac

Good to see this old chestnut of a topic getting another run!

I think a couple of points that are being overlooked are (a) what strength of gripper (spring) is being choked, and (b) how far is it being choked.

It's not very scientific, but nothing more than my guts tells me that choking say a CoC3.5 to just above parallel for 1 year WILL affect it's strength and feel - particularly in the lead up to the position in which it had been choked. 

I always release my grippers after a training session and I've had no issues with any of them (they're CoCs and that's what I specifically bought them for). Why risk leaving them in a position where they could degrade due to something other than normal use?

Dave

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Cannon
17 hours ago, gripmaniac said:

I always release my grippers after a training session and I've had no issues with any of them (they're CoCs and that's what I specifically bought them for). Why risk leaving them in a position where they could degrade due to something other than normal use?

Due to what, though?  What is the something else?  Extreme heat is one example.  We know that heating a spring makes it "not a spring anymore".  Never mind the deforming that would happen to a spring if heated while under a load.  So, just don't do that.

I googled this question and there are many Quora, Reddit, and physics forums where they belabor the finer points.  Anyone can read them for themselves.  To me, the clear consensus is that if the static position of the spring does not exceed its fatigue limit, there will be no impact.  One explanation I saw defined this issue as "creep."  Which also reminded me that's what the metallurgist from the UK called the issue and I was able to find his old post.  Creep.  From a physics forum:

"The phenomenon known as creep, as mentioned above, only affects materials at or above ~0.4x their melting point, in absolute temperature (kelvin). This is unlikely to be an issue in regular service unless your springs are made of something absurd like lead, which actually creeps at room temperature."
 

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gripmaniac

I freely admit that I suck at anything physics related (there is zero chance I could have passed it as a subject in late secondary school) so bear with me and my low brow ramblings. . . .or by all means call me out on them!

My chief concern with prolonged choking of a torsion spring is that the coil(s) temporarily expand (or “deform” if that is the right word to use here) under significant tension. It is my guts-talking view that at some point (no idea what it is) this must impact the ability of the spring material (let’s assume quality spring steel) to return to its exact originally manufactured shape, dimensions, and yes “strength” or resistance. This includes the spread of the legs (this topic has also been flogged a good deal over the years).

I’m no spring engineer – perhaps we need to seek out a few for their opinions.

Please accept my aired views for merely what they are – I’m happy change them in the face of a tide of a convincing counterview and/or a qualified opinion.

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Chez

I have to agree with gripmaniac. I'm don't have a scientific explanation. I just know what I feel. 

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richcottrell

Then by the same logic:

couldn’t I hang a Gripper off a work bench and then use either some weight or a ratchet strap to pull down the other handle to make the spring open rather then close...and in doing this the Gripper would get harder to close if left like that for  too long?

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Chez
26 minutes ago, richcottrell said:

Then by the same logic:

couldn’t I hang a Gripper off a work bench and then use either some weight or a ratchet strap to pull down the other handle to make the spring open rather then close...and in doing this the Gripper would get harder to close if left like that for  too long?

That would actually deform the spring so I don't think that is the same logic. you would literally undo the coil. You are moving the spring outside its intended range of motion.  If I'm understanding you right. 

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richcottrell
31 minutes ago, Chez said:

That would actually deform the spring so I don't think that is the same logic. you would literally undo the coil. You are moving the spring outside its intended range of motion.  If I'm understanding you right. 

I was thinking that by hanging the weight you slightly “Undo it” open so you would then have to use more effort to get the handles to close... the spread would increase a little.

But how much weight (or time) would that take to “undo the coil”?  

A choked Gripper only needs 1/2 pound higher then the RGC to keep the gripper closed. The handles keep the spring from absorbing any further compression...

or am I missing the idea of this thread altogether?

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Chez
2 minutes ago, richcottrell said:

I was thinking that by hanging the weight you slightly “Undo it” open so you would then have to use more effort to get the handles to close... the spread would increase a little.

But how much weight (or time) would that take to “undo the coil”?  

A choked Gripper only needs 1/2 pound higher then the RGC to keep the gripper closed. The handles keep the spring from absorbing any further compression...

or am I missing the idea of this thread altogether?

I'm just not seeing the comparison. The spring was coiled and made to move in that direction. I think going the other way would be very different. You would be going against the coil direction. 

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Cannon

But the spring is designed to deform (deflect) within its range of motion. 

I don’t know. I guess I don’t care about changing anyone’s minds. I just also really would not worry about it much. 

I have a long-held belief that one should beat the spit out of their grippers. You’ll get stronger by using and abusing them. They’re like $25. Just use them up. I’ve had this attitude for 12 years now and still train primarily on grippers I got 12 years ago. 

They’re still kicking. 

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Adam Juncker
16 hours ago, Cannon said:

But the spring is designed to deform (deflect) within its range of motion. 

I don’t know. I guess I don’t care about changing anyone’s minds. I just also really would not worry about it much. 

I have a long-held belief that one should beat the spit out of their grippers. You’ll get stronger by using and abusing them. They’re like $25. Just use them up. I’ve had this attitude for 12 years now and still train primarily on grippers I got 12 years ago. 

They’re still kicking. 

In all honesty, the price for having one of these grippers modified with this choker mount is an incredibly good deal. It is being done by a true craftsman too and sold by the best in the business.   Even if you only got one year of good use out of it, you still got your money's worth out of it. And I'd wager that you will get many years of good use out of one of these grippers. 

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gripmaniac
On ‎7‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:04 PM, Cannon said:

I have a long-held belief that one should beat the spit out of their grippers. You’ll get stronger by using and abusing them. They’re like $25. Just use them up.

Now, that IS something we can certainly agree on !!!! 

I've bought far more grippers over the years than I should have or really need.  In 17 years I've never broken one or trashed one thru misuse.  One day I know my single stamped CoC #T is going to bite the dust  . . . .but for $25 it was worth every cent as I am stronger for having trained with it.

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