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Donc101

Training for Multiple Types of Bending at Once

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Donc101

I am now doing double overhand, reverse, double underhand, braced, horseshoes and snapping.  They are all so fun and different.  I'm not sure of the best way to put them all together in a training program and the best lifting to help everything.  I think this topic will be important to lots of people this next year because of @KRC bending competition Bay State Bending Bash next year. There will be lots of us training for this.  I would love to hear from the experienced all-round benders on this topic, including the guys who did Beast in the East.  Any help would be great! Thanks everyone.

@KRC, @Buccos1, @David Mitti, @David_wigren, @Shoggoth, @Mike Rinderle, @Ivan Beritashvili, @Jedd Johnson  What do you guys and everyone else think?

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Shoggoth

Best progress I made with reverse was 1-2 challenge bends every 7-10 days. DO could handle almost daily volume and DU every 3-5 days. 

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KRC

I try to do basically what Jason outlined- understand what the recovery time is for each technique and fit them in when you can.  It will be interesting to see/hear how people are training for the comp.  

Another strategy could be to focus on one or two styles with the thought of placing very high in those while only maintaining strength and sacrificing points in others.  

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Buccos1

I just tried to work everything in each week.  Didn't do too much different in overall training, but I wasn't working grippers back then as much as I am now.  Planning for a comp like this, I think I will attempt to get in one session per-week of everything, while splitting them over two days.  In the past, I always had better luck working in braced stuff with squats or deadlifts, as my body was better-primed for it.  (Hands were a little more taxed with deads but it was still better overall.)  As for grippers, they will probably have to take a backseat while preparing for something like this.

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Donc101
On 8/29/2017 at 10:26 PM, Shoggoth said:

Best progress I made with reverse was 1-2 challenge bends every 7-10 days. DO could handle almost daily volume and DU every 3-5 days. 

 

1 hour ago, Buccos1 said:

I just tried to work everything in each week.  Didn't do too much different in overall training, but I wasn't working grippers back then as much as I am now.  Planning for a comp like this, I think I will attempt to get in one session per-week of everything, while splitting them over two days.  In the past, I always had better luck working in braced stuff with squats or deadlifts, as my body was better-primed for it.  (Hands were a little more taxed with deads but it was still better overall.)  As for grippers, they will probably have to take a backseat while preparing for something like this.

 

On 8/31/2017 at 8:33 AM, KRC said:

I try to do basically what Jason outlined- understand what the recovery time is for each technique and fit them in when you can.  It will be interesting to see/hear how people are training for the comp.  

Another strategy could be to focus on one or two styles with the thought of placing very high in those while only maintaining strength and sacrificing points in others.  

Thanks for your insight! It is fun doing so much at once but a bit tricky to figure out the best way to fit it all in.  Good luck with your training!

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Mike Rinderle

In the off season I always had one style at a time that I would try and push PRs on.  Usually whichever one I was enjoying the most and/or seeing the most progress on.  I would just hit the others enough to maintain.  As the contest approached, I would shift 180° and concentrate on bringing up my weaker events while just maintaining my gains on my best events.  

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Donc101
3 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

In the off season I always had one style at a time that I would try and push PRs on.  Usually whichever one I was enjoying the most and/or seeing the most progress on.  I would just hit the others enough to maintain.  As the contest approached, I would shift 180° and concentrate on bringing up my weaker events while just maintaining my gains on my best events.  

Thanks for the info Mike. I have gotten a lot of motivation and knowledge from watching your bending videos.  How many times a week do you feel is best/ can be done effectively?  Did you like more volume or max type bends? Any particular weight lifts you think help the most? Thanks.

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Mike Rinderle

I hated volume.  I liked max bends and isos on steel I couldn't quite get.  I bent 4-5 days a week.  Getting strong all over.  Squats, bench, rows, deads.  In addition, hammer curls helped my do kink a lot.

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Donc101
33 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I hated volume.  I liked max bends and isos on steel I couldn't quite get.  I bent 4-5 days a week.  Getting strong all over.  Squats, bench, rows, deads.  In addition, hammer curls helped my do kink a lot.

Thank you!

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Jedd Johnson

Volume always did nothing but hurt me.

My advice would be to establish a base strength in all the techniques, and don't try to peak on more than one, unless you're working towards a competition. 

You're using the same joints on all the techniques, so you may need to make some pretty substantial modifications to your program in order to control variables that might lead to injury.

Go slow, work up slower.

All the best with your bending.

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Donc101
1 hour ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Volume always did nothing but hurt me.

My advice would be to establish a base strength in all the techniques, and don't try to peak on more than one, unless you're working towards a competition. 

You're using the same joints on all the techniques, so you may need to make some pretty substantial modifications to your program in order to control variables that might lead to injury.

Go slow, work up slower.

All the best with your bending.

Thanks Jedd! Your horseshoe and braced bending videos have been very helpful also.

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Jedd Johnson
On 9/18/2017 at 3:01 PM, Donc101 said:

Thanks Jedd! Your horseshoe and braced bending videos have been very helpful also.

Thank you very much, sir.

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Donc101

I have been thinking that heavy kettlebell swings and heavy farmers walk will carry over to braced bending. Both torch the core and whole back. What does everyone think? I just started doing both, we will see if it helps.

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Andrew Dube
On 1/27/2018 at 3:28 PM, Donc101 said:

I have been thinking that heavy kettlebell swings and heavy farmers walk will carry over to braced bending. Both torch the core and whole back. What does everyone think? I just started doing both, we will see if it helps.

Overall body strength is very important for braced bending IMO. Especially arm strength. I'd say rowing and pressing variations as well as direct arm work would have the greatest carryover. I love farmers and heavy swings, and think they have an important place in any training program, but I'm not sure how specific they would be to braced bending.

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Donc101
3 hours ago, Andrew Dube said:

Overall body strength is very important for braced bending IMO. Especially arm strength. I'd say rowing and pressing variations as well as direct arm work would have the greatest carryover. I love farmers and heavy swings, and think they have an important place in any training program, but I'm not sure how specific they would be to braced bending.

Thanks for your input Andrew!  My core gets taxed to the max when I braced bend, so I was thinking core work with heavy weight like those 2 exercises would help. What are you thinking for arm work: heavy curls and close grip bench? Thanks for your help. 

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Andrew Dube
5 hours ago, Donc101 said:

Thanks for your input Andrew!  My core gets taxed to the max when I braced bend, so I was thinking core work with heavy weight like those 2 exercises would help. What are you thinking for arm work: heavy curls and close grip bench? Thanks for your help. 

I would train bent over rows, BB or DB, pullups, and some kind of bench press (floor press, partials, close grip) heavy twice a week. Then do some high volume arm work either after or on a separate day. I find I can easily do extra arm work on a rest day if I don't' go too heavy. I would try to do 50-100 reps each of biceps and triceps either alternating between two exercises or just trying every curl and extension variation I can think of. If you have a training partner it can be fun to have rep contests too. 

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Donc101

Bud Jeffries posted the below exercise recently. I did it last night and it really is brutal on the core. I feel it on my sides similar to certain parts of braced bending and horseshoe bending. 

 

A55310C9-275D-4DE4-B60D-853D2D606E9B.png

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Donc101

Bud Jeffries just posted this exercise on Facebook yesterday:

image.thumb.png.c86f64fff623c54e877d244645b17c65.png

 

This exercise hits your core like crazy and your core feels like it does in a hard braced bend.  I first saw this exercise in his scrolling DVD with Jedd. I do these periodically. I would like to do them more but when I am doing braced bending hard 2x a week it is hard to add this in too and still recover properly. I highly recommend this exercise for steel bending, especially braced work. Anyone else tried this exercise?

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Anton.Torrella

Im so glad you posted this - that and the one you posted in february make total sense for core strength and I've never heard or thought of trying them - the last one sounds very much like a braced bend simulator - very cool - excellent finds

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Donc101

I started this post a little over a year ago to gain some knowledge and advise on how to train for lots of different types of bending at once.  All of that bending places a lot of stress on the body.  I have learned a lot over the last year on this issue through trial and error and wanted to share some of what I learned in case it would help anyone else.  I am sure everyone’s body is different and people will have different results to the same training, but this is what worked for me.

 First, I discovered that I would begin to over train very easily and would have bad soreness that would last for too long.  Part of this may be due to being over 40 years old now.  I was originally doing weight training 2-3 days a week and was also doing intense grip work on those days.  I would bend on 2 different days a week.  This was way too much.  I tailored it down to this:

1.       2 bending days a week. I do Wednesday and Saturday.  I will do 2-3 bends each of DO, DU and reverse on average. It can be more or less depending on how I feel.  I like to do more max type bends and don’t get as much from volume bending.  I also like to throw some isos in there, especially when I am getting stuck on a certain bar.  I then do 1-3 braced bends.  What type of bends depends on what I am trying to improve on at that time.  I like to finish with snapping or scrolling if I still have the energy.  I like to use the wrist developer and think it improves my reverse.  I will do some of it if I feel up to it too.  This all can vary a lot depending on the current goals.

 

2.       1 weightlifting day a week.  I do Monday.  I think it is real important to keep your overall strength up.  However, I think the actual bending is more important, that is why I do it 2 days a week.   I would over train too much if I have more than 1 day of heavy lifting along with the 2 days of hard bending.  I try to build overall strength.  Focus on heavy weights and low reps. My current favorite lifts that I think help for overall strength and bending are: 1) squats, 2) partial rack dead lifts, 3) 1 arm DB presses (good core stimulation), 4) 1 arm DB rows, 5) 1 arm DB high pulls and 6) chest crush isometrics on a block of wood.  I will mix in other exercises and change things up and I may add some arm work, core work, stone lifting, sledge work, heavy bag work, etc at the end if I feel up to it.  For core,  I like the 2 Bud Jeffries exercises posted above and I like doing a twisting power type motion with a band attached to my power rack. Sledges are great for wrist strength and health.  I don’t always do them because sometimes my forearms and wrists just need the rest.

 

3.       I quit doing grip. I could not do both at the same time and be effective with bending. I tried it, but it did not work for me.  I still like to mess around with grip from time to time, but it is not a regular thing anymore.

 

4.       Indian Clubs.  I started using these a few months ago and my shoulders, elbows and wrists feel better than they have in a long time. We beat those joints up with heavy bending, especially the shoulders.  I was starting to have a weird feeling in my shoulders.  It wasn’t pain and I was not limited, but I could just feel something going on deep in my shoulder. I bought the clubs to prevent anything from happening to my shoulders.  They feel great right now.  I do these to warm up before bending and lifting and will also normally do these at the end of the workout.

 

These are my thoughts. I hope this helps someone.

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vikingsrule92

That is insanely helpful Don. I was actually about to PM you about programming prior to seeing this. I still will for a more specific question, but thanks a million for typing that out.

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anwnate
8 hours ago, Donc101 said:

I started this post a little over a year ago to gain some knowledge and advise on how to train for lots of different types of bending at once.  All of that bending places a lot of stress on the body.  I have learned a lot over the last year on this issue through trial and error and wanted to share some of what I learned in case it would help anyone else.  I am sure everyone’s body is different and people will have different results to the same training, but this is what worked for me.

 First, I discovered that I would begin to over train very easily and would have bad soreness that would last for too long.  Part of this may be due to being over 40 years old now.  I was originally doing weight training 2-3 days a week and was also doing intense grip work on those days.  I would bend on 2 different days a week.  This was way too much.  I tailored it down to this:

1.       2 bending days a week. I do Wednesday and Saturday.  I will do 2-3 bends each of DO, DU and reverse on average. It can be more or less depending on how I feel.  I like to do more max type bends and don’t get as much from volume bending.  I also like to throw some isos in there, especially when I am getting stuck on a certain bar.  I then do 1-3 braced bends.  What type of bends depends on what I am trying to improve on at that time.  I like to finish with snapping or scrolling if I still have the energy.  I like to use the wrist developer and think it improves my reverse.  I will do some of it if I feel up to it too.  This all can vary a lot depending on the current goals.

 

2.       1 weightlifting day a week.  I do Monday.  I think it is real important to keep your overall strength up.  However, I think the actual bending is more important, that is why I do it 2 days a week.   I would over train too much if I have more than 1 day of heavy lifting along with the 2 days of hard bending.  I try to build overall strength.  Focus on heavy weights and low reps. My current favorite lifts that I think help for overall strength and bending are: 1) squats, 2) partial rack dead lifts, 3) 1 arm DB presses (good core stimulation), 4) 1 arm DB rows, 5) 1 arm DB high pulls and 6) chest crush isometrics on a block of wood.  I will mix in other exercises and change things up and I may add some arm work, core work, stone lifting, sledge work, heavy bag work, etc at the end if I feel up to it.  For core,  I like the 2 Bud Jeffries exercises posted above and I like doing a twisting power type motion with a band attached to my power rack. Sledges are great for wrist strength and health.  I don’t always do them because sometimes my forearms and wrists just need the rest.

 

3.       I quit doing grip. I could not do both at the same time and be effective with bending. I tried it, but it did not work for me.  I still like to mess around with grip from time to time, but it is not a regular thing anymore.

 

4.       Indian Clubs.  I started using these a few months ago and my shoulders, elbows and wrists feel better than they have in a long time. We beat those joints up with heavy bending, especially the shoulders.  I was starting to have a weird feeling in my shoulders.  It wasn’t pain and I was not limited, but I could just feel something going on deep in my shoulder. I bought the clubs to prevent anything from happening to my shoulders.  They feel great right now.  I do these to warm up before bending and lifting and will also normally do these at the end of the workout.

 

These are my thoughts. I hope this helps someone.

Fantastic post.  Thanks for sharing.

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Donc101
10 hours ago, vikingsrule92 said:

That is insanely helpful Don. I was actually about to PM you about programming prior to seeing this. I still will for a more specific question, but thanks a million for typing that out.

 

9 hours ago, anwnate said:

Fantastic post.  Thanks for sharing.

I’m glad you guys liked the post. I was hoping it would provide some useful info.

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Tom Flesher
21 hours ago, Donc101 said:

I started this post a little over a year ago to gain some knowledge and advise on how to train for lots of different types of bending at once.  All of that bending places a lot of stress on the body.  I have learned a lot over the last year on this issue through trial and error and wanted to share some of what I learned in case it would help anyone else.  I am sure everyone’s body is different and people will have different results to the same training, but this is what worked for me.

 First, I discovered that I would begin to over train very easily and would have bad soreness that would last for too long.  Part of this may be due to being over 40 years old now.  I was originally doing weight training 2-3 days a week and was also doing intense grip work on those days.  I would bend on 2 different days a week.  This was way too much.  I tailored it down to this:

1.       2 bending days a week. I do Wednesday and Saturday.  I will do 2-3 bends each of DO, DU and reverse on average. It can be more or less depending on how I feel.  I like to do more max type bends and don’t get as much from volume bending.  I also like to throw some isos in there, especially when I am getting stuck on a certain bar.  I then do 1-3 braced bends.  What type of bends depends on what I am trying to improve on at that time.  I like to finish with snapping or scrolling if I still have the energy.  I like to use the wrist developer and think it improves my reverse.  I will do some of it if I feel up to it too.  This all can vary a lot depending on the current goals.

 

2.       1 weightlifting day a week.  I do Monday.  I think it is real important to keep your overall strength up.  However, I think the actual bending is more important, that is why I do it 2 days a week.   I would over train too much if I have more than 1 day of heavy lifting along with the 2 days of hard bending.  I try to build overall strength.  Focus on heavy weights and low reps. My current favorite lifts that I think help for overall strength and bending are: 1) squats, 2) partial rack dead lifts, 3) 1 arm DB presses (good core stimulation), 4) 1 arm DB rows, 5) 1 arm DB high pulls and 6) chest crush isometrics on a block of wood.  I will mix in other exercises and change things up and I may add some arm work, core work, stone lifting, sledge work, heavy bag work, etc at the end if I feel up to it.  For core,  I like the 2 Bud Jeffries exercises posted above and I like doing a twisting power type motion with a band attached to my power rack. Sledges are great for wrist strength and health.  I don’t always do them because sometimes my forearms and wrists just need the rest.

 

3.       I quit doing grip. I could not do both at the same time and be effective with bending. I tried it, but it did not work for me.  I still like to mess around with grip from time to time, but it is not a regular thing anymore.

 

4.       Indian Clubs.  I started using these a few months ago and my shoulders, elbows and wrists feel better than they have in a long time. We beat those joints up with heavy bending, especially the shoulders.  I was starting to have a weird feeling in my shoulders.  It wasn’t pain and I was not limited, but I could just feel something going on deep in my shoulder. I bought the clubs to prevent anything from happening to my shoulders.  They feel great right now.  I do these to warm up before bending and lifting and will also normally do these at the end of the workout.

 

These are my thoughts. I hope this helps someone.

Very interesting, and anything that Don does is prima facie a good program to follow. (Reminds me of the time I shook up my programming entirely based on @Juha Lehtimäki making an offhanded comment about a strong back being key for DO bending.) I'm curious, Don, what your overall strength background was; your weightlifting day seems more about maintaining rather than building it. Accurate?

I've been struggling with time because I've been tiring myself out on a squat-heavy and press-heavy program, but at the same time I'm working off a base of almost no experience with powerlifting. It feels like I'm seeing results on the big bends I do, but I may ease off 3x/week lifting. It's all very difficult to balance. <whine> But I want to bend big stuff now.</whine>

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Donc101
1 hour ago, Tom Flesher said:

Very interesting, and anything that Don does is prima facie a good program to follow. (Reminds me of the time I shook up my programming entirely based on @Juha Lehtimäki making an offhanded comment about a strong back being key for DO bending.) I'm curious, Don, what your overall strength background was; your weightlifting day seems more about maintaining rather than building it. Accurate?

I've been struggling with time because I've been tiring myself out on a squat-heavy and press-heavy program, but at the same time I'm working off a base of almost no experience with powerlifting. It feels like I'm seeing results on the big bends I do, but I may ease off 3x/week lifting. It's all very difficult to balance. <whine> But I want to bend big stuff now.</whine>

Tom,

I started powerlifting in high school and into the early part of college (could lift more weight then than at any other point in my life). I wrestled in college so I trained hard on the weights for that. After college, weights was here or there with long lay offs until a couple years ago and I have been consistent since then.

I am definetly not about maintaining strength. I am all about increasing strength and power when I lift. I agree with Juha that the back is pivitol for bending.

I think the specificity of bending itself is way more important than weights, but you do need to be strong all over. 

You are right it is difficult to balance. The above is what is working for me now. Not overtraining and letting the body heal is key. Everyone will have a certain amount of volume they can handle. 

Good luck and post what program you descided on and how it is working.

Don

 

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