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Strengthdifference in grip


Geralt

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@Mikael Siversson, I know that you probably have a different experience than I with "people of African descent", but that is a very wide definition. While there are a number of people who are very sui

I'll ramble a bit here, with the intent of staying on topic [in a roundabout way]. I'm still fairly a newbie with regards to the approach of this community towards measuring and documenting grip stren

First off the shipping to get the stuff is expensive overseas and certain events like the stub, half penny, meat hooks, wrist developer etc just aren't big events in the US to justify training them ye

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My fingers are short compared to my palm,  hands are 7 5/8 wrist to tip of middle finger. Pretty sure that's why I'm relatively good at blobs, bad at grippers.

20161130_233321.jpg

Edit: and my thumb is like half of my hand... Also was naturally pretty good with hubs

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Paul Savage
2 hours ago, Geralt said:

Thank you all for the input guys. Indeed, it was not so much my question who is the best athlete. Gabriel sum isn't perhaps the best gripathlete all round, but he is capable of for instance TNS gripperwork which even the top guys, can't come even close to, despite being quite high on the MM ladder. I also remember him casually TNS-ing an Elite while holding the camera in his other hand. You see what I am getting at? 

I wonder what mechanics are playing a rol here. Several guys above mentioned a few things already. 

Perseverance is a big factor indeed, but even perseverance, things like 10+ reps TNS with a #3 or that very quick rise in bending strength cannot be easily trained, even with years of dedicated training. Another strange phenomenon in find in grip is, that two more or less equal movements, don't necessarily need to complement each other, i.e gripmachine vs. gripper, thickbar vs RT, and so on. For instance in the Dutch comp I recently attended, there were some pretty good thickbarlifts, but compared to their gripperwork,  there was a lot of strengthdifference. And I would not address this solely to lack of technique. The differences would have been even higher if it was not for the fact that grippers were to be closed within a short timeframe, instead of three max attempts with recovery time in between. The risk of burning out on a too heavy gripper was too high. 

It's very interesting for me.  

Btw personally, I think Laine Snook always was a marvel to watch. He has a scary amount of strength output, both Vulcan and the double Inch lift. If this man would be a few years younger now and had his way on the more recent implements, he would be ripping a lot of current PR's in half. But, that's off topic. 

 

I've done better tns than Gabriel, both in terms of reps on #3 and max so saying others 'cant come close' to him in this isn't exactly accurate. Laine has done some phenomenal lifting with thickbar and blobs, his power clean of my 30kg blob was especially awesome (his vulcan had very easy spring for the levels). 

Seemingly slight differences can make a big difference to results in grip. You can be great at 10 different things and terrible at 10 others. Of course certain people are genetically suited to excel at certain events and some just naturally strong but in terms of getting stronger you simply must train specific to what you want to get stronger in / do it consistently over time.

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Squeezus
2 hours ago, wobbler said:

My fingers are short compared to my palm,  hands are 7 5/8 wrist to tip of middle finger. Pretty sure that's why I'm relatively good at blobs, bad at grippers.

20161130_233321.jpg

Edit: and my thumb is like half of my hand... Also was naturally pretty good with hubs

I don't know if it's the angle of the photo, but it looks like you have a case of @Jedd Johnson thumb going on there, lol.

54 minutes ago, Paul Savage said:

I've done better tns than Gabriel, both in terms of reps on #3 and max so saying others 'cant come close' to him in this isn't exactly accurate. Laine has done some phenomenal lifting with thickbar and blobs, his power clean of my 30kg blob was especially awesome (his vulcan had very easy spring for the levels). 

Seemingly slight differences can make a big difference to results in grip. You can be great at 10 different things and terrible at 10 others. Of course certain people are genetically suited to excel at certain events and some just naturally strong but in terms of getting stronger you simply must train specific to what you want to get stronger in / do it consistently over time.

Could you post a video to substantiate such a claim?

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Paul Savage
22 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

I don't know if it's the angle of the photo, but it looks like you have a case of @Jedd Johnson thumb going on there, lol.

Could you post a video to substantiate such a claim?

Some has been done on video, some not, all has happened. If you look at recent videos on my youtube you will find vulcan lvl 19 ccs with the new crom spring, two levels above Paul Knights world record and it's not peak strength. Wouldn't be hard to assume a big tns but people can think what they will, just putting some facts out there.

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@paulsavage I don't quite understand why you make these statements that you have done stronger / better stuff than what is displayed by or of other people everytime. For me you don't need to prove yourself at all. I know you're strong at grip. 

My 'top guys' remark still stands, as most guys are not able to do what Gabriel - or you - can do. If you take a look how many guys train grippers and how many guys are able to casual do what I mentioned, that's just a very, very small percentage. Differences in grip seem to be far bigger than with regular strengthtrainees. 

 

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climber511
2 hours ago, Geralt said:

@paulsavage I don't quite understand why you make these statements that you have done stronger / better stuff than what is displayed by or of other people everytime. For me you don't need to prove yourself at all. I know you're strong at grip. 

My 'top guys' remark still stands, as most guys are not able to do what Gabriel - or you - can do. If you take a look how many guys train grippers and how many guys are able to casual do what I mentioned, that's just a very, very small percentage. Differences in grip seem to be far bigger than with regular strengthtrainees. 

 

I think the smaller sample size in Grip makes more extreme differences more noticeable.  When I think about the general lifting population and the number of say 1000# dead lifters - the ratio seems pretty close to what we observe in grip sport.

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I hope this thread doesn't turn south and get locked 

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My bss deep hub is better than my one hand flask... Very new to pinch other than blobs.

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Paul Savage
5 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Na were good. Looks like all thats going on here is Paul is once again attempting to sell the idea that he possesses the strongest set of hands on the planet. No one buys it though, so it should be fine. 😬

 

Never once said this or anything close, you won't find a single quote from me that states this in this thread or any other. What I said was I've done better tns than Gabriel for both reps and max, which I have. I said this because it was stated that nobody else, even out of the top gripper guys, was even close to him in tns. I simply stated the truth, as what was stated was false. 

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Paul Savage
17 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

C'mon man.. you've taken yet another opportunity to sit there and scoff at just about every top grip guy out there like they are beneath you. Seems like many of your posts revolve around down playing some of the best any chance you get. Why is that? Why no respect? Instead what is heard from you are random chime-in's of how you are stronger than anyone who performs a world class feat.

i am not a Paul Savage fan. And for no other reason than the fact that you are able to consistently insult and/or downplay some of the best in the world. To top that, you are able to do so almost unchecked. Almost every time. You find a way to come off as the "humble" guy, and a handful typically will come to your aid in a thread that you've found your feet to the flames in, and state what a nice guy you are who doesnt have to prove anything to anyone. The "humble" guy who goes around not so humbly making claims that he is better than the best of the best. But yet is still too "humble" to climb the MM ladder, or to do any gripper cert beneath the #4 ccs. I mean dang... make up your mind if you want some recognition or not. Recognition as the best on grippers=out certing the best on grippers. Not talking about it.

 

Im not even gonna mention the many others you have claimed to be stronger than. Today im just gonna focus on your above claim that you are stronger than Gabriel. As you say. And im going to remind you that in the world of grip, (namely grippers) Gabriel is officially stronger than you. And its officially official. That is, until you start certing something.😮

I've never once put any one down for anything in my life, it's not the case at all, I'm in no way like that. Read the rest of the posts in this thread giving respect to David Horne and stating that he is the best / why. This completely negates your claim of me saying im the best (I've accomplished absolutely nothing compared to him, the difference is massive, it's not even slightly close). The reason for this is because he deserves the respect and you are saying where's my respect? I also stated every time when talking of David that it wasn't a knock on anybody else, everybody mentioned are great competitors. Chad and jedd have done awesome things, so has durniat, glass, juha, Kody and many others. It's in no way shape or form meant to put them down in any way stating David is the best, it's a case of 15 national and 4 world titles beating the best of the best and being the current world champion. As for Gabriel, why would it be belittling his tns saying I've done better? I've been a fan of his for years, have absolutely nothing against him. All i was doing was correcting a false statement. Gabriel is great at grippers and a great competitor.

Ill try to make this as clear as I possibly can, I've been 2nd in national championships, 4th in world's, that's it. This in no way makes me the best and I have never thought I am. Any time you say I'm saying im the best and not giving credit to others, you arnt speaking truth. I give everybody credit and respect everybody that helps the sport or puts the graft into training.

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Kashtan
18 hours ago, Paul Savage said:

I've done better tns than Gabriel, both in terms of reps on #3 and max so saying others 'cant come close' to him in this isn't exactly accurate.

Gabriel make 16 reps on CoC#3. Promise - 20 reps. Paul, your result is better? It is interesting to look at the video.

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Paul Savage
2 hours ago, Kashtan said:

Gabriel make 16 reps on CoC#3. Promise - 20 reps. Paul, your result is better? It is interesting to look at the video.

I've done 16 also but without chalk, which for me personally equates to 20-22 with chalk. I've also been wanting to do 20 no set for some time, looks like he will get there first as it's not something I'll be training for some time. Problem for me with that goal is that I only tend to use it towards the start of a build up to a #4 ccs run and find doing rep work without chalk helps keep the #4 in place better when I do get around to attempting it. I also don't have any easy #3's, traded the one I had for easy #4.

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Can someone change the thread title now?

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Alawadhi
9 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

C'mon man.. you've taken yet another opportunity to sit there and scoff at just about every top grip guy out there like they are beneath you. Seems like many of your posts revolve around down playing some of the best any chance you get. Why is that? Why no respect? Instead what is heard from you are random chime-in's of how you are stronger than anyone who performs a world class feat.

i am not a Paul Savage fan. And for no other reason than the fact that you are able to consistently insult and/or downplay some of the best in the world. To top that, you are able to do so almost unchecked. Almost every time. You find a way to come off as the "humble" guy, and a handful typically will come to your aid in a thread that you've found your feet to the flames in, and state what a nice guy you are who doesnt have to prove anything to anyone. The "humble" guy who goes around not so humbly making claims that he is better than the best of the best. But yet is still too "humble" to climb the MM ladder, or to do any gripper cert beneath the #4 ccs. I mean dang... make up your mind if you want some recognition or not. Recognition as the best on grippers=out certing the best on grippers. Not talking about it.

 

Im not even gonna mention the many others you have claimed to be stronger than. Today im just gonna focus on your above claim that you are stronger than Gabriel. As you say. And im going to remind you that in the world of grip, (namely grippers) Gabriel is officially stronger than you. And its officially official. That is, until you start certing something.😮

True. I agree with tommy 100% and I am sure Mikael too agrees. He always too get the new guys in his aid. He always implies he is the best. In previous threads he talks how David is the best then he jumps and says but I beated him in grippers and so on. Paul you are strong but as what tommy said you officially are nothing compared to the likes of Gabriel. They are official. Anyway, I won't repeat what Mikael and Tommy said. Every year you claim to cert on the #4 too. What happened this year? Just have respect for Chad, Jedd and the others dude. 

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Paul Savage
18 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

True. I agree with tommy 100% and I am sure Mikael too agrees. He always too get the new guys in his aid. He always implies he is the best. In previous threads he talks how David is the best then he jumps and says but I beated him in grippers and so on. Paul you are strong but as what tommy said you officially are nothing compared to the likes of Gabriel. They are official. Anyway, I won't repeat what Mikael and Tommy said. Every year you claim to cert on the #4 too. What happened this year? Just have respect for Chad, Jedd and the others dude. 

My first words in this thread were giving those guys respect, what are you on about? How could i be implying I'm the best by stating David is the best several times? You arnt making any sense. I've never said I've beat David at grippers, I've never even competed against him. Are you seriously mocking me for not certing the #4?? haha How many times have you certed it? It's pretty difficult, I can only try my best.

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Lets not get the thread locked.... Geralt brought up a great observation not intending on making a ranked list of the strongest guy in the world. Keep it civil and contribute to the topic or itll be another dead, locked up and forgotten about thread where we all could have been learning from each other's experiences instead of infighting.

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Alawadhi
On 12/17/2016 at 1:07 AM, jvance said:

Lets not get the thread locked.... Geralt brought up a great observation not intending on making a ranked list of the strongest guy in the world. Keep it civil and contribute to the topic or itll be another dead, locked up and forgotten about thread where we all could have been learning from each other's experiences instead of infighting.

Sorry. You are correct. But it pisses me off as someone who doesn't wanna cert claims to have done in the vulcan gripper 2 levels above Paul Knight world record with a stronger spring in his warm up (or not peak time in this same thread) . Paul is first out of the 3 who reached the MMG7 cert. It is shame to look down at others who worked out hard and are clearly better. 

Back to topic. Big hands,  big weight, big frame, genetics, surely plays a big part. We all remember Wes Peart when he was young. He was 16 and bending shinies and coc 3 then he certed on both easily. But the real deal is continuously training in my opinion. When you are persistent, things come. Champions are born. 

Edited by Alawadhi
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Paul Savage
10 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

Sorry. You are correct. But it pisses me off as someone who doesn't wanna cert claims to have done in the vulcan gripper 2 levels above Paul Knight world record with a stronger spring in his warm up (or not peak time in this same thread) . Paul is first out of the 3 who reached the MMG7 cert. It is shame to look down at others who worked out hard and are clearly better. 

Back to topic. Big hands,  big weight, big frame, genetics, surely plays a big part. We all remember the kid Wes Peart. He was 16 and bending shinies and coc 3 then he certed on both easily. But the real deal is continuously training in my opinion. When you are persistent, things come. Champions are born. 

It's on video clear as day, never said it was a warm up. What you have stated I am doing to Paul Knight (not the case, pauls done great things) is actually what you are doing to me. I've done vulcan twice in competition at national and world championships and didn't lose either time. It took half my life working hard to get to vulcan level 19 ccs not peaked.

I'll bow out of this thread, probably just stick to my log from now on.

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Thanks guys, and no further offense meant. Good that things can be said and shared in a civil manner, right? Shows this board is alive. I'm away at the moment but will give some topic related input in a short while. 

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robertmiller67
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:04 PM, climber511 said:

There are "specialists" and "all arounders" in grip.  It's not possible to pick what's best and choose any one individual in my opinion.  Personally I would much rather be fairly good at everything than very good at one thing even if it may keep you off some list or another.  This seems to lessen the effects of big/small hands - big/smaller body size etc.  I also value strength per pound highly.  The guys I like are the ones that destroy the super huge Medleys - and of course they are also near the top in individual events but with a reserve of strength endurance.

Well said Chris & agreed 100%...  esp. since my last grip competition I came in a distance 5th but won the medley!   

I didn't have any of the implements to train with prior to the comp so I was happy to be in the top 5 anyways!   I mainly was there to show support for my friend's event & have a good time... which we did!  

I love medleys & tend to do well with them as I have good all-around hand strength but suck at some specific grip feats... ie, grippers. :(

Great post gentlemen & look forward to hearing everyone's input!   

Cheers!  

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I guess it's true that the gripcommunity, although growing here on the GB, does not at all represent the world population at all, compared to regular strengthtraining. On Instagram and FB you can see people doing sick stuff in training from all over the world, but when it comes to grip, specially 'sick stuff', you're bound to see someone you've seen before a few times online but mostly someone from the known gripcommunities in Russia, Finland, GB and the States/Canada and a handful of guys from Germany. Even less from my country. Italy has a small community as well. France, I cannot recall 'knowing' someone. So in the big perspective, it's nothing compared to the world population. 

Still, let's throw all of those people on a big human pile and see how many easily rep out TNS big grippers. Just a few guys will easily pump these out. Even a LOT of very strong guys all round, cannot replicate this. In fact, somewhere the correlation between big pinch PR's and thickbar lifts, and gripper abilities, seems lost.  

Now let me take Gabriel again as an example regarding grippers. Easily pumping out TNS #3 reps. He also has been quite competitive for a while in grip overall, but although he was strong, I don't remember him being champion all over. Now with such strong tendons, you would think he would whoop everybody's *ss. This, however, was not the case. There seem to be so many different muscles and tendons involved with the several grip exercises, but it seems illogical to me that people are born with just a few parts of the lowerarms more developed than other parts of those same limbs. 

I hope it makes sense a bit in what I try to put under words here. In running it is a known fact, that you see a lot of black people dominating the top. As goes for certain sports. Top swimmers are also a certain kind of breed, as are OLY lifters. I am missing to see such a thing yet in gripsport. You know that typical guy from who you don't expect it at all walking around in some kind of sports expo and asking 'Oh? That's an Inch?' when being confronted with a gripstand and than lifting the friggin' thing both left and right hand without never having touched weights before. Hmmmm

Note, a few guys above also touched this remark, regarding the still relatively small gripcommunity. 

Edited by Geralt
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Mikael Siversson

Based on eg power lifting, Olympic lifting and arm wrestling it seems people of African descent are at a disadvantage. Loads of exceptions of course but in general that seems to be the case. The very best tend to be of non-African heritage. You could argue I suppose that Caucasians and eg Asians have the advantage of having some Neanderthal component in their genome whereas native Africans, as science has shown, are the only truly 100% humans on the planet (eg no mixing with Denisovans or Neanderthals). Neanderthals were, as indicated by bone size, muscle scars etc. stronger than pure bread humans or humans with only smaller amounts of Neanderthal mixing. So the generally longer limbs of Africans, which help in eg running, is perhaps a human character in a strict sense.

 

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Alawadhi
15 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Based on eg power lifting, Olympic lifting and arm wrestling it seems people of African descent are at a disadvantage. Loads of exceptions of course but in general that seems to be the case. The very best tend to be of non-African heritage. You could argue I suppose that Caucasians and eg Asians have the advantage of having some Neanderthal component in their genome whereas native Africans, as science has shown, are the only truly 100% humans on the planet (eg no mixing with Denisovans or Neanderthals). Neanderthals were, as indicated by bone size, muscle scars etc. stronger than pure bread humans or humans with only smaller amounts of Neanderthal mixing. So the generally longer limbs of Africans, which help in eg running, is perhaps a human character in a strict sense.

 

Ever seen Yamanies (Yemen) with their jump? They do jump over camels. Yep. It's a a national sport. A culture actually for people who live there. Generally they jump on 4 to 7 camels but you do find 10 camel or more. They are one of the best jumpers in the world along with Africans.

But Mikael, Leaving evolution theory aside, you will find many Africans with HUGE frame. Especially in the US. I mean BIG people and STRONG. But the dominant in the strength sports varies. In weightlifting you see Iranians, Turks, Russians and the general east Europeans. Of course there are few of the other in every sport.

In grip we cannot say yet. Sport is young. It needs to get world wide attention so we see from which part of the world strong hands are coming from.

 

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