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How would you like to see GripSport grow?


richcottrell

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John McCarter

Okay guys, unless you have an idea to bring great ideas to the table just stop the crap posting and take it to private. Let's keep this civil. Also, it doesn't matter if you train the euro or flask; if you're intention is to get stronger then why should it matter what tool you use.

Since no one has actually taken the time to invite someone from Finland to add their say to the matter, let me begin. @Juha Harju What can other countries do to spread grip as a sport? What are other countries not doing that could make the sport of grip popular in their part of the world?

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@Mikael Siversson, this thread is about growing Gripsport. Yet, in 7 posts, you have not managed to make a single suggestion, aside from "ask the Finns". If you have anything to add aside from attacki

This is my 2 cents or how American people says it.    I have wide circle of friends including Finland's elite class pro powerlifters, strongmen and arm wrestlers. I practise with them and I

Trigger Warning: I feel passionately about the future of gripsport, so brace yourself for a lot of opinions that may go against the grain. I think a good mix of competitions with cash prizes as wel

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anwnate
5 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I made the "Climber Pinch" - a non adjustable fixed width pinch implement nearly 10 years ago - it has been in many Medleys and is now available from FBBC at the retail level at a good price.  No one has ever had it as a stand alone event that I am aware of.  It's as quick as the Flask I think and fairly cheap - I have no idea why it never caught on really.  It's a fixed 2" but could be (and has been ) made in other widths.  Better promotion might be the why the flask is now popular and the Climber Pinch never caught on - but who knows. 

That's an interesting question.  

Chris...I actually didn't even hear of the Climber Pinch until maybe July of '15.  Not exactly sure why that is.

I just checked out the FBBC site and notice that one would pretty much have to stick with the 2" (50.8mm) version...with a tiny minority able (or interested in) using the 2.5" (63.5mm).

With it's rounded edges...it looks like it'll save a persons webbing, like the flask.  And the Flask's 2.25 (57mm) is fairly similar to it.

   

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KapMan
2 hours ago, anwnate said:

That's an interesting question.  

Chris...I actually didn't even hear of the Climber Pinch until maybe July of '15.  Not exactly sure why that is.

I just checked out the FBBC site and notice that one would pretty much have to stick with the 2" (50.8mm) version...with a tiny minority able (or interested in) using the 2.5" (63.5mm).

With it's rounded edges...it looks like it'll save a persons webbing, like the flask.  And the Flask's 2.25 (57mm) is fairly similar to it.

   

I'd like to note that the FBBC's double barrel bastard did the same thing, it was 4" wide with rounded edges. Made it much more comfortable for lifting heavy. Somethings are best left to training and not enter competition, the DBB is IMO that type of thing.

I think a pinch series would be great for a medley or even as an event. Pinch seems to be the gripsports version of atlas stones along with grippers. Notice that almost all contests have these 2 in them. I think innovation and making the contests more interesting and unique will draw a crowd  and athletes from other sports.

 

 

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Mike Sharkey

One of the main reasons I lost interest in Grip as a long term  endeavour was because of the poor organization of the competitive process.  And you might say, well f*** him, he's an a******* anyway, and that may be true, but it's one less person in the ranks.  When I left, the exact same argument was going on. The old-guard elites were sitting around arguing about the 2HP, and the frequency and organization of comp structure was sorely lacking.  New ideas were scoffed at.  

See here's the thing.  Do you wanna talk about how to grow a sport?  Or, do you wanna obsess about a specific tool?  Seems to me Gil had a ton of people at his comp.  Like, a huge, successful comp that everyone, new AND experienced, had a good time at it.   Whatever he's doing is how you grow the sport.  If you wanna just get together twice a year in your garage and drink beer or whatever with the elite bros, that's super cool and all, but don't pretend you actually want to grow and legitimize Grip as a sport.  Hope everyone here is well, I'll be busy competing in a sport that is actually growing and reaching new people.  

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John McCarter

Mike Sharkey put it best in his post. Look at how this thread has reached this point. I would love to see grip evolve beyond the point it is now but if this whole argument is going to center around who is "Elite" and one pinch device, we have lost sight of how to progress this little passion.

What is Elite now can be blown away if people from other sports (top olympic weightlifters and strongman) came in and just destroyed what is considered "world records" we have. What if those people hit 600 lb in the axle DO lift, or, 350 in the 2hp, what then?

Unless there is a method to bridge new and old ideas together and form something new nothing will change.

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Mike Sharkey
27 minutes ago, John McCarter said:

Mike Sharkey put it best in his post. Look at how this thread has reached this point. I would love to see grip evolve beyond the point it is now but if this whole argument is going to center around who is "Elite" and one pinch device, we have lost sight of how to progress this little passion.

What is Elite now can be blown away if people from other sports (top olympic weightlifters and strongman) came in and just destroyed what is considered "world records" we have. What if those people hit 600 lb in the axle DO lift, or, 350 in the 2hp, what then?

Unless there is a method to bridge new and old ideas together and form something new nothing will change.

Honestly John, I think y'all are looking in the wrong direction, strength-wise, in terms of growing the sport.  The sport is not going to grow with huge lifters like Dave L. or Lucas showing up and kicking ass. If you are looking for exceptionally strong people you have a really small base to draw from.  Even in PL or Oly lifting, really strong people are rare.

Crossfit is so popular because it appeals to normal, totally unexceptional people.  Grip is going to grow with average Joe's that just enjoy it for the sport's sake.   I think Jared moderates a Reddit Grip Forum with thousands of members.  I doubt there is a 400# axle lifter or a Certified CoC among them.  In training martial arts, most of us know we will never, ever, ever be elite level grapplers or strikers, not alone compete in professional MMA.  We do it because we can see we are improving over ourselves of yesterday and we enjoy the camaraderie and challenge.   I think the amauter and pro thing is a good start.  Just my 2 cents.  

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KapMan
1 hour ago, Mike Sharkey said:

One of the main reasons I lost interest in Grip as a long term  endeavour was because of the poor organization of the competitive process.  And you might say, well f*** him, he's an a******* anyway, and that may be true, but it's one less person in the ranks.  When I left, the exact same argument was going on. The old-guard elites were sitting around arguing about the 2HP, and the frequency and organization of comp structure was sorely lacking.  New ideas were scoffed at.  

See here's the thing.  Do you wanna talk about how to grow a sport?  Or, do you wanna obsess about a specific tool?  Seems to me Gil had a ton of people at his comp.  Like, a huge, successful comp that everyone, new AND experienced, had a good time at it.   Whatever he's doing is how you grow the sport.  If you wanna just get together twice a year in your garage and drink beer or whatever with the elite bros, that's super cool and all, but don't pretend you actually want to grow and legitimize Grip as a sport.  Hope everyone here is well, I'll be busy competing in a sport that is actually growing and reaching new people.  

Well said, and exactly what I was thinking. Look at the leader boards and see how stale it is. It's generally the same folk. Gil had a great showing and I have a feeling numbers will be good again. Thinking outside the box like many do in inventing gear should be applied in setting standards and choosing contest events. 

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Mikael Siversson
8 hours ago, John McCarter said:

 

What is Elite now can be blown away if people from other sports (top olympic weightlifters and strongman) came in and just destroyed what is considered "world records" we have. What if those people hit 600 lb in the axle DO lift, or, 350 in the 2hp, what then?

 

Strongmen are not particularly strong in the pinch relative to thickbar like the axle. The LGC competition in Sweden has always had like a third or so of the competitors being strongmen (some national elite level) and we have never had someone just showing up and blowing everyone out of the water in the pinch. With weigh classes it will take a considerable effort to erase records in the lighter weight classes for sure. I think you will find that many of the 'elite' grip guys on the GB also have a successful background in other strength sports. I have for example done 300k (660 lb) in the squat IPF depth with just knee wraps and a belt and others like Eric Milfeld is also a strong powerlifter. There are many other examples in the heavier weight classes.

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canthar

Strongmen also do not train pinch. You missed the entire point.

 

To grow something you need to have appeal to the masses.

 

My last post here, this conversation is like talking to a wall and not worth the effort anymore. Clearly you have no real desire to discuss actual growth.

 

Sorry @KapMan, clearly you and Gil did something right and now I moved down to NC feel free to contact me. Keep up the good work.

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KapMan
1 hour ago, canthar said:

Strongmen also do not train pinch. You missed the entire point.

 

To grow something you need to have appeal to the masses.

 

My last post here, this conversation is like talking to a wall and not worth the effort anymore. Clearly you have no real desire to discuss actual growth.

 

Sorry @KapMan, clearly you and Gil did something right and now I moved down to NC feel free to contact me. Keep up the good work.

thanks brother, I will defiantly get in touch with you.

 

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Jared Goguen

Hey guys lets just continue this conversation of growing the sport in a private message and leave the irrelevant naysayer out of it.

I have a lot of ideas that I would like to share with those of you who actually care about this sport.

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JHenze646
11 minutes ago, Jared Goguen said:

Hey guys lets just continue this conversation of growing the sport in a private message and leave the irrelevant naysayer out of it.

I have a lot of ideas that I would like to share with those of you who actually care about this sport.

Not discussing things publicly seems to be a reason some people feel left out already. 

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Jared Goguen
Just now, JHenze646 said:

Not discussing things publicly seems to be a reason some people feel left out already. 

Look what happens when it is? People are attacked and shit on rather then being constitutive, helpful, and happy that people are thinking about growing a sport we all love.

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Jared Goguen

If something has already been discussed 2, 5, or 10 years ago rather then shutting down the conversations and people when they bring it up why not try to open your eyes, re-evaluate the situation at hand, use logic, and reason rather then just saying "We already had this conversation" it been decided as if its the word of god or something. The world changes. It good to re-think things over and over again looking for small improvements over time.  

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JHenze646
2 minutes ago, Jared Goguen said:

If something has already been discussed 2, 5, or 10 years ago rather then shutting down the conversations and people when they bring it up why not try to open your eyes, re-evaluate the situation at hand, use logic, and reason rather then just saying "We already had this conversation" it been decided as if its the word of god or something. The world changes. It good to re-think things over and over again looking for small improvements over time.  

Absolutely.

Some ideas have already been tried though.

For example being geographically located between Jedd, Andrew, Kody, and now Gil doesn't bode well for my contest placing. It could be discouraging for someone New. The first grip event I attended had a Novice division, which in hindsight was awesome, but further class divisions aren't always logistically possible especially if the field of athletes is small.

Should we have opportunities for female athletes and young athletes to compete... With out question.

The problems arise in the implementation. Setting up a women's medley for one competitor  is impractical. In order to offer these opportunities the promoters are going to need help and they need to accept it. 

I am not currently able to be as involved as I would like to be but it's important for me to give what I can.

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anwnate
41 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

Absolutely.

Some ideas have already been tried though.

For example being geographically located between Jedd, Andrew, Kody, and now Gil doesn't bode well for my contest placing. It could be discouraging for someone New. The first grip event I attended had a Novice division, which in hindsight was awesome, but further class divisions aren't always logistically possible especially if the field of athletes is small.

Should we have opportunities for female athletes and young athletes to compete... With out question.

The problems arise in the implementation. Setting up a women's medley for one competitor  is impractical. In order to offer these opportunities the promoters are going to need help and they need to accept it. 

I am not currently able to be as involved as I would like to be but it's important for me to give what I can.

Actually Josh...I think that anyone located East of Ohio is pretty screwed.  Sigh. 

I totally agree about the opportunities.  We are lucky enough to have 3 boys and 1 woman in our contest this June.  While the Medley is planned for 26 items, without too much effort, I created an additional 12 item loading platform that only the jr's and women can use.  If they blow through those...then they can move to the heavier stuff.  

I think it's imperative that we create opportunities to challenge everyone.  Watching someone lift one or even zero items in a medley really frustrated me since I don't see that as conducive to gaining grip momentum and motivation.

I think that what you do contribute is universally appreciated man. 

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John McCarter
21 hours ago, John McCarter said:

I would love to see grip evolve beyond the point it is now but if this whole argument is going to center around who is "Elite" and one pinch device, we have lost sight of how to progress this little passion.

What is Elite now can be blown away if people from other sports (top olympic weightlifters and strongman) came in and just destroyed what is considered "world records" we have. What if those people hit 600 lb in the axle DO lift, or, 350 in the 2hp, what then?

Unless there is a method to bridge new and old ideas together and form something new nothing will change.

 

20 hours ago, Mike Sharkey said:

.  

 

12 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

 

I want to clarify my point as there was an underlying message. What I was referring with "Elite" is the fact that what is considered elite now is subjective by who is currently training their lower arms and those who, if given the right amount of time and understanding of the technique that goes into the euro and axle, the numbers would be blown away if people in strongman and weightlifting started to train their grip around the specifics of the euro and axle, what could they do? (I'm talking about the strongest ones in the entire world; ones who make lifting a barbell a joke.) The numbers I gave were meant as hypothetical (how do we know someone can't hit these numbers already? It will happen with enough time).

Did someone miss where I clearly stated: "Unless there is a method to bridge new and old ideas together and form something new nothing will change." How long has this been going on and nothing has been resolved in terms of making grip bigger and better than it already? The most relevant aspect of this thread has come down to crapping upon ideas/opinions about the euro and flask. Why is it such a big deal that 2 different tools exist to improve one's pinching cannot coincide. Who stated that the only pinch device that one must use is the euro and you must forsake all other pinch devices? If you are getting stronger shouldn't that be the end goal?

But no, what we get from Mr. Siversson is someone who is acting like the people at UMass when Milo Yiannopoulos, Steven Crowder and Christina Hoff Sommers tried to give a talk but it comes down to back and forth ideas that are getting no where and it comes back to the freaking euro device, nothing is going to replace the euro, it is the device that has become the standard in grip contest. The only thing that has been stated by Mikeal of any relevance to this thread is to ask the Fins; that's the greatest contribution we have 

 

 

4 hours ago, canthar said:

Strongmen also do not train pinch. You missed the entire point.

 

To grow something you need to have appeal to the masses.

 

My last post here, this conversation is like talking to a wall and not worth the effort anymore. Clearly you have no real desire to discuss actual growth.

 

Sorry @KapMan, clearly you and Gil did something right and now I moved down to NC feel free to contact me. Keep up the good work.

Bingo, this is what the thread should focus on instead.

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KapMan

I think getting people into the local training groups could help. I have NO ONE LOCAL to me that does this stuff, it sucks. Maybe we can set up a Find a group/gym map and promote that to our friends and family and get the word out. That's how I got into strongman, because of that same thing. People need to be aware there are others in their area doing this kinda of thing. I also think Arm wrestling could benefit from that as well.

I'm trying to get the word out the best I can, I'm not like Jedd who WOOOs and gets 3 followers on Instagram lol I have the personality of cactus.. So I've been putting feelers out to local strongman promoters to include some grip related events in their contest. Or even have a "Can you GRIP IT" booth set up on contest day and generate interest. I've even gone as far as contemplating a traveling Grip truck, and hitting up expos, contest etc. We need to think outside the box.

Edited by KapMan
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JHenze646
10 minutes ago, KapMan said:

Or even have a "Can you GRIP IT" booth set up on contest day and generate interest.

This^

I always try to get some of the Highland games guys to come to Gripmas since it's the off-season. 

Because of the geography of our country, an online presence will also be important, I.e. the FBBC Crusher raffle had 30+ entrants in a month.

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Mikael Siversson

No one has made any comments in this threat implying one cannot or should not use anything other than the Euro pinch for training (as that part of the thread dealt with the competition aspect).

Training pinch lifting on an implement where you can change the width is however vastly superior to training at a fixed width. If you train year after year with your 58 mm pinch block what do you think will happen when you have a go at something really wide and heavy? Nothing will happen, that's what's going to happen. With a Euro-type of implement you can set it really wide by adding additional spacers and develop a super strong wide pinch grip. Training at wide settings on the Euro (at times beyond 64mm) enabled me to deadlift the 50blob with zero specific blob training and to pinch lift four 10k plates first try. If you care little about being able to exert great strength at extreme widths in the pinch then just ignore the advice above.

 

10 hours ago, John McCarter said:

Why is it such a big deal that 2 different tools exist to improve one's pinching cannot coincide. Who stated that the only pinch device that one must use is the euro and you must forsake all other pinch devices? If you are getting stronger shouldn't that be the end goal?

 

 

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anwnate
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richcottrell

While I am happy to see this thread became something many people are posting in, I feel bad that it has taken on a negative vibe.  Re-read that first post.  

Now, putting the question aside as to which implements to use in GripSport contests and what type of contest structure people like best, 
Where do you see GripSport in 10 years?

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climber511

I have been involved for over ten years now – using the past ten as an indicator we will be pretty much right where we are now unless some changes are made.  We can call what we have a “sport” but until it becomes organized and removed entirely from a “forum” it will never grow into what is possible for the activity.

I have expressed my belief before that until or unless an actual organization comes to be that is not tied to a forum setting – things will not change much.  If we look at every Sport – especially Strength Sports – we see an actual governing body in charge.  They are set up according to law that gives legal standing, officer protection, has bylaws governing all aspects, has a “membership” that pays dues to belong and compete, has insurance that covers events and promoters etc, etc, etc. 

What we have now is a group of “elected” people who have shown a long standing love for the sport doing the best they can with everyone else on a forum constantly expressing different opinions on what they think should be done.  They have no legal standing and are ignored for the most part if people so choose.  And while many of the opinions have merit – all of them cannot be implemented of course.  As this thread has shown - for everyone in favor of something – there is someone else against it.  Nothing is ever solved on a forum. 

I believe if it is not done by the people involved currently – it will be done by another outside group who will set it up as I am predicting.  Grip is already being tested outside of NAGS etc – IronMind has for years just as one example.  The activity is popular and becoming more so - as I told Strossen years ago it is the last Strength sport available for the “normal” man. 

 

 

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Mike Sharkey
3 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

No one has made any comments in this threat implying one cannot or should not use anything other than the Euro pinch for training (as that part of the thread dealt with the competition aspect).

Training pinch lifting on an implement where you can change the width is however vastly superior to training at a fixed width. If you train year after year with your 58 mm pinch block what do you think will happen when you have a go at something really wide and heavy? Nothing will happen, that's what's going to happen. With a Euro-type of implement you can set it really wide by adding additional spacers and develop a super strong wide pinch grip. Training at wide settings on the Euro (at times beyond 64mm) enabled me to deadlift the 50blob with zero specific blob training and to pinch lift four 10k plates first try. If you care little about being able to exert great strength at extreme widths in the pinch then just ignore the advice above.

 

 

Were you not hugged as a child?  

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John McCarter
3 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

No one has made any comments in this threat implying one cannot or should not use anything other than the Euro pinch for training (as that part of the thread dealt with the competition aspect).

Training pinch lifting on an implement where you can change the width is however vastly superior to training at a fixed width. If you train year after year with your 58 mm pinch block what do you think will happen when you have a go at something really wide and heavy? Nothing will happen, that's what's going to happen. With a Euro-type of implement you can set it really wide by adding additional spacers and develop a super strong wide pinch grip. Training at wide settings on the Euro (at times beyond 64mm) enabled me to deadlift the 50blob with zero specific blob training and to pinch lift four 10k plates first try. If you care little about being able to exert great strength at extreme widths in the pinch then just ignore the advice above.

 

 

If you have to win an argument on the internet, because you want to make it about the euro, you are the winner.

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