acorn Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) Decided to pull current 3 lift totals this morning and massage the SQL query a bit to get more info out of it. Here are the current totals as of 4/22/2016 for Grippers, 2 hand pinch, and DO Axle DL per weight class for totals of 400# and up. 3LiftTotals_20160422.pdf Edited April 22, 2016 by acorn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeezus Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 This is pretty sweet Aaron! Thanks for running these #s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, Squeezus said: This is pretty sweet Aaron! Thanks for running these #s. You bet. Next up is 1H totals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) One Hand Totals for Grippers, 1HP (Euro), and 1H Axle DL as of 04/22/2016. 250# and up. Edited April 22, 2016 by acorn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucasraymond Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Thanks for running those....totally forgot that I reach 730lb Elite total for the 93k class after last comp!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony C. Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 This is great, thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 37 minutes ago, Lucasraymond said: Thanks for running those....totally forgot that I reach 730lb Elite total for the 93k class after last comp!! You are welcome! Congrats on making Elite! - Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 (edited) Those ranking do have one major flaw in that the three events are not 'weighed'. In other words it is much more important to be good at the axle than with, in particular, grippers. So people with a great axle result are given an unfair advantage relative to those with a great 2HP or gripper close. Just also want to state that my own worst event is grippers whereas my axle and 2HP are very similar relative to the class records. Powerlifting and Olympic lifting events are not 'equalised' either but the differences between the various lift at elite level is far less extreme than in the grip sport where eg the axle record is more than twice as high as that in grippers. You can be great in the axle (which typically is the case with strongmen competitors) but mediocre in the other two events and still end up with a good total. Edited April 23, 2016 by Mikael Siversson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 It is especially unfortunate that the two perhaps 'purer' events from a grip sport perspective (both pretty much hand size neutral) are 'discriminated against' in the 'big 3 total'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 This is really cool. Thanks for posting Aaron! Man.. Old wounds. I cut down to the 66kg class for basically 1 contest. I missed Elite status by 9 pounds because of a bonehead move on axle. I pulled 252 EASILY and instead of clinching Elite status with a next lift of 261, I FORGOT about it completely in the midst of the contest and jumped to 280 for no reason. I couldn't lock it out. DANG! 9 pounds. If I could have one do-over from any competition it would be that axle lift! I stole defeat from the jaws of victory. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KapMan Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Light weights are defiantly tearing shit up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashtan Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Great work Aaron! 3- total - the most objective measure overall grip strength, for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kashtan said: Great work Aaron! 3- total - the most objective measure overall grip strength, for now. Hrmm, I am not so sure about that Igor. It is, however, easy to see that you like the idea given that the axle seems to be, by far, your best event (200kg), sort of proving my point. Assuming your gripper performance matched that of another lifter but you outperformed him by 20% in the axle (say your 200kg vs his 167kg). If we then assumed that he outperformed you by a whopping 33% in the 2HP (eg 120 vs 90kg) you would still place ahead of him using a simple 3 lift total. Would you really feel that you have a stronger grip than the other guy even though he outclassed you by a greater margin in the 2HP than you outclassed him in the axel? No one is doubting the fantastic work Aaron has done so this is strictly a discussion of the merits or lack thereof of a simple 3 lifts non-weighed total. Edited April 24, 2016 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) To put it in plain English, a simple non-weighed 3 lift total will be ruled by the axle specialists and never by guys known for their huge gripper strength. A good example of someone that would be hugely disadvantaged would be Tommy Heslep (just an example as I know he is not currently competing). Edited April 24, 2016 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeezus Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 @Mikael Siversson does have a point. The 1-hand total is more objective. For 2-hand to be more even, it would need to use left and right gripper total instead of just main hand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, Squeezus said: @Mikael Siversson does have a point. The 1-hand total is more objective. For 2-hand to be more even, it would need to use left and right gripper total instead of just main hand. Or do the calculation with grippers and pinch in pounds, and the axle in kilos. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashtan Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 22 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said: Hrmm, I am not so sure about that Igor. It is, however, easy to see that you like the idea given that the axle seems to be, by far, your best event (200kg), sort of proving my point. Assuming your gripper performance matched that of another lifter but you outperformed him by 20% in the axle (say your 200kg vs his 167kg). If we then assumed that he outperformed you by a whopping 33% in the 2HP (eg 120 vs 90kg) you would still place ahead of him using a simple 3 lift total. Would you really feel that you have a stronger grip than the other guy even though he outclassed you by a greater margin in the 2HP than you outclassed him in the axel? No one is doubting the fantastic work Aaron has done so this is strictly a discussion of the merits or lack thereof of a simple 3 lifts non-weighed total. Mikael, I understand your point of view. However, powerlifting and weightlifting, too, not all exercises are equal in weight. However, they are added for. Naturally, the guys that demonstrate snatch or bench press will not be happy. Their most powerful exercise evaluated the worst. Athletes that are best-in clean and jerk, squat- usually win. Is not it? So here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) Aaron's suggestion in particular sounds appealing to me (counting the axle result in kilograms). The one handed axle is in my opinion a bit too wobbly and difficult to judge to be featured as a standard lift. The one-handed suggestion is otherwise good too. Using pounds in the 2HP and grippers and kilograms in the axle would give a moderate advantage to the pinch specialists. Given that the 2HP on the Euro is widely regarded as THE grip event (largely because of its long history and hand size neutral features) I think that is something most would consider okayish. Certainly much better than giving a HUGE advantage to axle specialists. With these adjustments we would be very close to powerlifing and Olympic lifting in providing only moderate advantage to one specific lift. Edited April 25, 2016 by Mikael Siversson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not really sure how it's unfair. If you take your grip total very seriously and you want to move up in the rankings but have a weak axle, isn't that a call to work your overall body/deadlift power as well as your thick bar? Sure the axle number is a lot higher than the gripper number generally but I fail to see how that's unfair. Everyone's body type, hand size, leverages, etc. etc. vary wildly which makes competition fun and unique. And it's only "much more important" to be good at axle with respect to this list, not to winning or doing well in grip comps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I agree with Mikael but I see the problem in the heavier classes where the hand and body size play such a huge role more so than among the light to mid-weight classes. We have seen 500# axles and I'm sure we will see more as time goes on and Strongman types enter the field more often with their often huge hands and dead lift strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStepien Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This is a great post! I'm surprised, I saw my name in 120+k class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 remember 1 pound is a good bit less than half of one kilo... i think we are getting too deep in this - the axle carries the weight in this way of evaluating performance. If the axle isn't your best lift then improve it if it hurting your standing. However.......I suppose the fairest way to do the big three is to add the axle in as .50 of the lift and that equalizes all the lifts and should be reasonably close to the mean of the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Scibelli Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Or maybe the third event should be a one hand open hand lift, that would cut down the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, KRC said: Not really sure how it's unfair. If you take your grip total very seriously and you want to move up in the rankings but have a weak axle, isn't that a call to work your overall body/deadlift power as well as your thick bar? Sure the axle number is a lot higher than the gripper number generally but I fail to see how that's unfair. Everyone's body type, hand size, leverages, etc. etc. vary wildly which makes competition fun and unique. And it's only "much more important" to be good at axle with respect to this list, not to winning or doing well in grip comps. I think the axle double overhand lift will continue to be popular and its understandable why it was included in the 'big three'. We have numerous grip events that cater for those with limited core/back strength but not so many for those will overall great strength. Its certainly one of my favourite lifts to train but I don't think it should be given such disproportionate significance in the 'big three' total. Btw no idea why my post quotes KRC as I was simply replying to the general topic.. Edited April 25, 2016 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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