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Im Silver Bullet 1 Minute Mark Broken?


John McCarter

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anwnate

So...I was watching his "how to" video on the Silver Bullet. While I believe he is using a #3 for demonstration, the film is a little bit grainy. I figure if it is a #3, then it would be easy to compare the two springs used in the videos. I found it pretty frustrating since they are filmed a slightly different angles...and in the WR one...he obscures his set with his head.

Watching them over and over, I came to no conclusion other than the WR one is definitely not a #T,#1 or #1.5. Depending on the angle and the background...the diameter of the spring seems to change. Assuming the #3 was used in the demo, then I couldn't find the "smoking gun" Randall was looking for.

What are we left with? A questionable world record.

IMO, it was pointless to video that WR without following reasonable protocol. Frankly...most people who film their PRACTICE bends or gripper closes leave less doubt than this video. What exactly was the reason for the break in the film? Did he suddenly have to use the bathroom? If so, just how difficult is it show the ends of the gripper?

Failing to properly document a world record attempt is pretty stupid. Let's assume that the judge is legit and that the gripper is a #3? There are still a number of ways to cheat. Because it wasn't documented properly, we will never know. Let's put aside the idea that the gripper was a #2 or #2.5 and focus on other cracks in this dam. Let's ignore any other suspicious things like the ease he seemed to hold it (who knows...maybe it was simply a macho thing).

If you are going to bother videoing it in the first place, the gripper should be opened on film by the referee and never leave sight of the camera. It's not that difficult. Clear the area and back the camera up.

Because of the break in the video, it would not be difficult at all to switch out the cert gripper. How can someone add 50% more time to their best...use a 138lb #3. The absolute easiest way would be to step in front of the judge for 5-10 seconds while your buddy switches the Cert. #3 with a weak #3. Because the camera isn't on the gripper, it's a possibility. If you look at the WR attempt, the "Tower" Box on the left hand side has medals on it when he's chalking up etc. Then we have the break in the film and if you notice...those medals are gone. So...did someone just "pick them all up"? Or...more likely, they were given out because the contest was over. So just how long did this award ceremony take? Just how long between those spliced films?

Randall...this isn't simply a question about the integrity of the judge, the lack of written protocol led to a murky record. The judge could be duped or distracted for a tiny slice of time and boom...shenanigans. The other certs are generally between the judge, the bender/gripper...and maybe some family looking on. Doing cert attempts with multiple contestants during or after a contest requires a higher level of vigilance.

How else could someone add 50% to their best time? Switching out the 2.5kg plate with a similar but lighter one. Again...if there is any kind of break in protocol, this could easily be done. So... both weighing the 2.5kg plate...and KEEPING it on camera, along with opening and keeping the cert. gripper on camera would have ended all this rampant speculation before it even started.

Anyway...assuming that no one finds a smoking gun, the record will stand until the next Silver Bullet contest when Kody takes it back with an extreme vengeance.

Then Suhovarov will have the opportunity to extinguish doubt.

Here's that "how to" vid Suhovarov filmed.

"WR" Silver Bullet vid.

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And yes of course I'm pissed off. I've worked very hard to get where I am. To have someone break my record in that way is no where near respectable or credible. "They" called Ironmind. "They" know the

Randall, since you've joined this thread, please consider removing the latest SB world record. The video of the attempt was extremely questionable, especially when you look at the spring size of the g

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Anthony C.

This record, legit or not, will not stand for long. I have just two words. Kody. Vano.

Edited by Anthony C.
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Justin Matney

Vano held it longer with a #4 than most can with a #3.

Edited by jmatney
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kodyburns

I like how he's able to snap that gripper back shut after it starts to slip out between the handles at the 1 minute mark. Then you can see he purposely opens it to be sure he doesn't make it look like he doesn't have any more in the tank. So easy and powerful you can hear it click almost. There is no way in hell your gonna snap any #3 back like that if it started slipping that late into the hold. Maybe at in the first 10 or 20 seconds but not at no minute mark. He tried pretty hard to make it look tough but no way that was a #3 gripper. To me it all looks like an Oscar performance. Also funny how there was 2 grippers on the floor prior to all the attempts. Why 2 grippers ? My guess is so it looked just as new as the new #3. After the guy almost hands the wrong gripper to the first competitor he then throws it up on the box. He does show the #3 at the start so this shows he is aware of how things go. Then after Dmitriy opens the gripper on purpose he then proceeds to throw the fake gripper out of site of the camera behind some supplement tubs. You can even tell by the color of the gripper spring. The #3 is a little darker and the one Dmitriy is more shinier. Theres plenty of evidence and proof of cheat tactics here no question. Anyone who can't see it is either in denial or just not at the strength and experience level it takes to see what's going on here. World Class Actor ! Not sure how anyone who knows anything about Grip can look at all the evidence and call it anything but a scam.

It isn't that anyone should have to prove them wrong. It should be them having to prove they did things right. And they sure couldn't do that.

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Jared Goguen

Anyone who can't see it is either in denial or just not at the strength and experience level it takes to see what's going on here. World Class Actor ! Not sure how anyone who knows anything about Grip can look at all the evidence and call it anything but a scam.

It isn't that anyone should have to prove them wrong. It should be them having to prove they did things right. And they sure couldn't do that.

This right here. Letting records like this stand does nothing but lower the legitimacy of Ironmind's, the records they keep, and how they judge them.

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Mikael Siversson

At the 7:05 mark you get a good lateral view of the gripper, allowing for a comparison of the width of the spring steel vs that of the handle. I get a best fit with an #1 or #1.5 but it definitely looks thinner than a #2.5 let alone a #3.

So...I was watching his "how to" video on the Silver Bullet. While I believe he is using a #3 for demonstration, the film is a little bit grainy. I figure if it is a #3, then it would be easy to compare the two springs used in the videos. I found it pretty frustrating since they are filmed a slightly different angles...and in the WR one...he obscures his set with his head.

Watching them over and over, I came to no conclusion other than the WR one is definitely not a #T,#1 or #1.5. Depending on the angle and the background...the diameter of the spring seems to change. Assuming the #3 was used in the demo, then I couldn't find the "smoking gun" Randall was looking for.

What are we left with? A questionable world record.

IMO, it was pointless to video that WR without following reasonable protocol. Frankly...most people who film their PRACTICE bends or gripper closes leave less doubt than this video. What exactly was the reason for the break in the film? Did he suddenly have to use the bathroom? If so, just how difficult is it show the ends of the gripper?

Failing to properly document a world record attempt is pretty stupid. Let's assume that the judge is legit and that the gripper is a #3? There are still a number of ways to cheat. Because it wasn't documented properly, we will never know. Let's put aside the idea that the gripper was a #2 or #2.5 and focus on other cracks in this dam. Let's ignore any other suspicious things like the ease he seemed to hold it (who knows...maybe it was simply a macho thing).

If you are going to bother videoing it in the first place, the gripper should be opened on film by the referee and never leave sight of the camera. It's not that difficult. Clear the area and back the camera up.

Because of the break in the video, it would not be difficult at all to switch out the cert gripper. How can someone add 50% more time to their best...use a 138lb #3. The absolute easiest way would be to step in front of the judge for 5-10 seconds while your buddy switches the Cert. #3 with a weak #3. Because the camera isn't on the gripper, it's a possibility. If you look at the WR attempt, the "Tower" Box on the left hand side has medals on it when he's chalking up etc. Then we have the break in the film and if you notice...those medals are gone. So...did someone just "pick them all up"? Or...more likely, they were given out because the contest was over. So just how long did this award ceremony take? Just how long between those spliced films?

Randall...this isn't simply a question about the integrity of the judge, the lack of written protocol led to a murky record. The judge could be duped or distracted for a tiny slice of time and boom...shenanigans. The other certs are generally between the judge, the bender/gripper...and maybe some family looking on. Doing cert attempts with multiple contestants during or after a contest requires a higher level of vigilance.

How else could someone add 50% to their best time? Switching out the 2.5kg plate with a similar but lighter one. Again...if there is any kind of break in protocol, this could easily be done. So... both weighing the 2.5kg plate...and KEEPING it on camera, along with opening and keeping the cert. gripper on camera would have ended all this rampant speculation before it even started.

Anyway...assuming that no one finds a smoking gun, the record will stand until the next Silver Bullet contest when Kody takes it back with an extreme vengeance.

Then Suhovarov will have the opportunity to extinguish doubt.

Here's that "how to" vid Suhovarov filmed.

"WR" Silver Bullet vid.

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anwnate

At the 7:05 mark you get a good lateral view of the gripper, allowing for a comparison of the width of the spring steel vs that of the handle. I get a best fit with an #1 or #1.5 but it definitely looks thinner than a #2.5 let alone a #3.

I lost count of the stills I took. On some angles it definitely looked smaller...especially while he held it straight. When it flashes the camera (looking down on the spring), it looks way bigger.

Basically, when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims and flies like a duck...it's not a freakin' Ostrich.

My best guess is that it's a #2. (could be a weak one at that)

However, none of the obvious (and many...as Kody pointed out) discrepancies will give I.M the concrete evidence to "reverse a I.M. decision." The fact that this single "attempt" was the ONLY one which had the stopwatch "on camera" could lead you to believe that a "world record time" was GOING to happen. Why would someone around in the low 40sec area believe they would take 20 seconds off? Sure...sure...they did it in practice...whatever. I'm going off topic again.

Maybe...just maybe I.M. will take this as a sign that they need to revamp their rules to account for fraud. If they do...we can be happy that he decided to "just break" the silver bullet record to "make it more believable." Odds are that when someone rebreaks the record...he'll have "injured" his hand so to mask his non-ability to repeat the performance.

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This is a tale without and end, there will be no direct evidence to claim with factual evidence that this was a fake performance, when looking at the video alone. Indirect however, I fully understand and back up what Kody says, when you only look at the way how this guy sets the gripper, regrips it, etc, it is easy to see that his hands were not working with a #3. Either that or this guy is so strong that he will gladly cert the #3 TNS any day of next week. He handled it like a trainer. That compared to this guy's physical frame, I say no.

Edited by Geralt
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freeondie

Mr. Randall over the years has earned my respect and credibility. But, because of the Russian scams and scammers, all respect is lost. At least for me and my friends. No one knows why Mr. Strossen hides the truth, but I think the main reason is money. He lost a lot of money after I changed the dollar rate against the ruble (twice). Products ironmind and so was very expensive and now the prices are just space. Local equipment manufacturers in Russia became more and more popular. Moreover, except for grippers, all products ironmind poor quality. If I wrote something unclear, ask again. I write through Google translator :).

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Mikael Siversson

Sometimes I think we forget Randall is running a business. No idea if IronMind is a public company but if it is and if I was a shareholder I would keep on being a shareholder as long as the CEO did everything he or she could to maximise returns on investment for share holders. If that meant keeping some people happy and making others upset then so be it. You can't run a company with your heart you have to use your brain.

Edited by Mikael Siversson
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Autolupus

Sometimes I think we forget Randall is running a business. No idea if IronMind is a public company but if it is and if I was a shareholder I would keep on being a shareholder as long as the CEO did everything he or she could to maximise returns on investment for share holders. If that meant keeping some people happy and making others upset then so be it. You can't run a company with your heart you have to use your brain.

I hope that's tongue in cheek Mikael!

You should never eschew your moral or ethical ideals in order to make a fast buck, that's what's wrong with the capitalist mindset!

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You know I like my hobby and getting all to political on this isn't my thing, but Mike is definitely right, bashing a loyal group of customers because of they tend to analyze their hobby to deah isn't the best marketing strategy. Aren't soccer fans doing the same, analyzing each ballgame etc? It shows they care, in my opinion. So we're using terms like dogleg,rgc, so what. In terms of this discussion, we are all trainng our balls off next to familylife, work etc and so there is a lot of care when someone claims a certain feat. In some cases the use of a referree is very important and the whole thing is just dependant of the integrity of the judge. When I went for my cert on the #3 I missed it by a hair. My judge had to crawl under my hand to see up close that I missed it by a hair. Should he have stand more backwards, the gripper possibly had looked closed. Did I want it that way? Definitely not, I wouldn't have it any other way, achievements are earnt like that. I hate it to see that sometimes it seems that is integrity isn't maintained, at least, given how the whole attempt is presented to the viewing public. Let's be honest, if someone wants to cheat, there will always be a way. I could start using PED's for instance, no one will ever know if I would have used it. Does thst make up for a fair and honest competition element? I think not. So we like to see that everything that is at least controllable, in terms of procedures, is done in a transparant way.

This video in particular doesn't add much credibility to the supposed recordholder. There's so much going on, specially off cam.

This, together with the apparant integrity story Tommy allready described, makes it hard for us to believe this was a legitimate record. If true, it will be 'not fair' for future recordchallengers to say the least to work up against this, put in euphemistic words. However, It's quite pointless demanding the record to be put down. That is not going to happen. I am a bit naive perhaps but this much focus on negativity doesn't bring the gripcommunity much. If this guy isn't legitimate he is laughing his balls off right now because of this discussion going on about him. Best to focus on our own training and kill that record next time. Like Tommy said, let him attack it again by that time, but not under the the conditions how this was filmed. The only guys who know how it truly went down are on th video. If he did pull it off in a legit style with a #3, well props to him.

Edited by Geralt
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Mikael Siversson

I dare say you are not running a successful company. It's Randall's company and his rules and that's that basically. Moreover, a classic example of large moat companies is the ability to sell your products just about no matter what. In this case Randall can afford 'insulting' customers as his grippers sell like hotcakes anyway. I dare say a lot of us have disapproved of some of Randall's views expressed here and on his website. More-or-less secretly we then place our next order for that awesome #3.5. We can always get a rated one from a middleman and pretend it has nothing to do with Randall.

Sometimes I think we forget Randall is running a business. No idea if IronMind is a public company but if it is and if I was a shareholder I would keep on being a shareholder as long as the CEO did everything he or she could to maximise returns on investment for share holders. If that meant keeping some people happy and making others upset then so be it. You can't run a company with your heart you have to use your brain.

I hope that's tongue in cheek Mikael!

You should never eschew your moral or ethical ideals in order to make a fast buck, that's what's wrong with the capitalist mindset!

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I dare say you are not running a successful company. It's Randall's company and his rules and that's that basically. Moreover, a classic example of large moat companies is the ability to sell your products just about no matter what. In this case Randall can afford 'insulting' customers as his grippers sell like hotcakes anyway. I dare say a lot of us have disapproved of some of Randall's views expressed here and on his website. More-or-less secretly we then place our next order for that awesome #3.5. We can always get a rated one from a middleman and pretend it has nothing to do with Randall.

He surely has lost one customer in this case. I will never buy any Ironmind product in this life anymore the way Randall presents himself and his company. Any person asking my advise I will advise them to never buy any Ironmind products.

Edited by Grind
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Mikael Siversson

How many times do you think Randall, over the years, has heard that comment on the GB....from people still buying his products?

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How many times do you think Randall, over the years, has heard that comment on the GB....from people still buying his products?

Do you think Randall or I care?

It's a free market and everybody can do as they please. Therefor I'm lucky I can choose to buy another brand in the future.

Edited by Grind
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Justin Matney

I think it's drastic to say that you won't buy anymore Ironmind products ever.

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Fist of Fury

How many times do you think Randall, over the years, has heard that comment on the GB....from people still buying his products?

Do you think Randall or I care?

It's a free market and everybody can do as they please. Therefor I'm lucky I can choose to buy another brand in the future.

Yes there's a lot of other fine products out there these days. It's not exactly the end of the world for us to boycott one brand.

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Instead of bashing a sponsor, just try and beat Kody's record.

I certainly wouldn't spite myself by not using their grippers- over an endurance record with varying grippers.

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Hubgeezer

Instead of bashing a sponsor, just try and beat Kody's record.

Bashing a sponsor is one thing.

Calling for "us" to "boycott" is another. First, who the hell is "us"? Does anyone think that of thousands of members here, there is "one voice"? Unless you have an attorney or are mentally impaired, no one speaks for you other than yourself. Second, these discussions ON THE SPONSOR'S PAGE are, at best inappropriate. I don't care what the alleged accusation is, it's wrong.

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Instead of bashing a sponsor, just try and beat Kody's record.

Bashing a sponsor is one thing.

Calling for "us" to "boycott" is another. First, who the hell is "us"? Does anyone think that of thousands of members here, there is "one voice"? Unless you have an attorney or are mentally impaired, no one speaks for you other than yourself. Second, these discussions ON THE SPONSOR'S PAGE are, at best inappropriate. I don't care what the alleged accusation is, it's wrong.

You have a point there Mike, although I remember Randall also had no problem blasting away in a certain GOPD thread on the IM board where more or less the whole GB community was implied lol I think as a businessman, Randall has developed a thick skin through the years and these kind of discussion should be seen as purely business, right. As long as the discusion is kept civil I don't see much problem or disrespect here. Speaking for myself, that is. I also don't understand what purpose boycotting IM would have in my opinion that is of course since I am a gripper addict.
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Hello

I'm Alexey Tyukalov. I greatly respect Ironmind equipment and tournaments held on them. Whenever I get a chance, I also lift everything that is not radioactive and is made of iron. But I don't understand why one can hold tournaments with use of equipment of different firms, while others cannot. The specific tournament is where Axle used was a fake (not IronMind). Also personally I don't see a new gripper number 3 (maybe it's not the Ironmind gripper at all?), I also do not see proper setting of the silver bullet (see the picture) and a 2.5 kg disk is also not by Ironmind. What is the point of the exercise then? Besides, none of those athletes who were there that day confirm the record, as the video was done after the tournament after participants have left.

post-24143-0-88701900-1446446042_thumb.j

post-24143-0-20496600-1446446058_thumb.j

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Wannagrip

I guess people cannot read? See my post just above.

Again, NOT the purpose of this forum. Move on please.

Consider this now a warning.

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Tom Scibelli

Wow, this is a great picture, it also shows that the SB is set too deep, see rule 5: http://www.ironmind.com/certification/coc-silver-bullet/rules-and-world-records/

Hello

I'm Alexey Tyukalov. I greatly respect Ironmind equipment and tournaments held on them. Whenever I get a chance, I also lift everything that is not radioactive and is made of iron. But I don't understand why one can hold tournaments with use of equipment of different firms, while others cannot. The specific tournament is where Axle used was a fake (not IronMind). Also personally I don't see a new gripper number 3 (maybe it's not the Ironmind gripper at all?), I also do not see proper setting of the silver bullet (see the picture) and a 2.5 kg disk is also not by Ironmind. What is the point of the exercise then? Besides, none of those athletes who were there that day confirm the record, as the video was done after the tournament after participants have left.

http://youtu.be/IBYp9-fjAsU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ649fz9KOo

Hello

I'm Alexey Tyukalov. I greatly respect Ironmind equipment and tournaments held on them. Whenever I get a chance, I also lift everything that is not radioactive and is made of iron. But I don't understand why one can hold tournaments with use of equipment of different firms, while others cannot. The specific tournament is where Axle used was a fake (not IronMind). Also personally I don't see a new gripper number 3 (maybe it's not the Ironmind gripper at all?), I also do not see proper setting of the silver bullet (see the picture) and a 2.5 kg disk is also not by Ironmind. What is the point of the exercise then? Besides, none of those athletes who were there that day confirm the record, as the video was done after the tournament after participants have left.http://youtu.be/IBYp9-fjAsUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ649fz9KOo

Wow i had not noticed the placement of the silver bullet until you pointed it out. Good eye, sir!

If there is a smoking gun, that is it. When the palm of the hand is used as a backstop to allow it (the silver bullet) to stay in place should the gripper open slightly, it is cheating. No doubt. The silver bullet is intended to be held between the two gripper handles. Not behind them, while being held in place next to the handles with the palm.

Is this something everyone agrees on? I would think, yes.

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anwnate

Hello

I'm Alexey Tyukalov. I greatly respect Ironmind equipment and tournaments held on them. Whenever I get a chance, I also lift everything that is not radioactive and is made of iron...

Ok...this pretty much wins the internet.

Bill. Thanks to Alexey, I took another still of the set and posted it on the Silver Bullet thread...on the Iron Mind Forum.

http://www.ironmind-forum.com/forum/contests-performances/grip_aa/59062-coc-silver-bullet-world-record?_=1446474863251

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