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Im Silver Bullet 1 Minute Mark Broken?


John McCarter

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Randall Strossen

Ok—thanks for clarifying that, so if the refereeing is bad, the lift can still be good?

Apparently, this is exactly the case here.

Well, Grind, looks like you've got all the facts, or maybe was that none of them? By the way, were you there?

That's pretty much it Randall. None of us have any facts except for ridiculously questionable video. If Ironmind has "all the facts"...or "was there", it would be very kind for you to simply share them with this grip community (a community which certainly support, purchase and compete with Ironmind products).

I've read what you wrote to McCarter and Harju on the Ironmind site. Both there...and here...you pretty much aren't addressing the issue at all.

Stating that new records will always have "distrust"...and that perhaps those with issues with the new records have an agenda pretty much ignores the issue entirely.

Additionally, bringing up Juha's prior issues with Kody performance does nothing to address the issue.

Talking about a company with copycat products...does nothing to address the issue.

To be completely clear...and to address you personally...

Randall, was the new IM Silver Bullet record strictly based upon that (IMNSHO) obviously flawed video?

Is there some additional information that I.M is holding back for some unknown reason?

Thanks.

Spare us the smoke, please, as well as the intentional misstatement of facts.

Cutting to the chase, no and no, and to the vital question you forgot to ask, Yes!

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And yes of course I'm pissed off. I've worked very hard to get where I am. To have someone break my record in that way is no where near respectable or credible. "They" called Ironmind. "They" know the

Randall, since you've joined this thread, please consider removing the latest SB world record. The video of the attempt was extremely questionable, especially when you look at the spring size of the g

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anwnate

Spare us the smoke, please, as well as the intentional misstatement of facts.

Cutting to the chase, no and no, and to the vital question you forgot to ask, Yes!

Somehow...I feel as I'm going to be sent to isolation.

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John McCarter

When I started this thread, there was no video at the time. I took it that this feat was real but after viewing the video, without being influenced by other members of this site, I watched the video. The gripper is only shown off once to prove that it was a number 3 but that proof is diminished over time. My biggest concern is around the 7 minute mark where the edit in the video is beyond clear, the bottom of the gripper was never shown to be a #3, so any captain of crush gripper easier than a #3 could have been used. The spring does not look like a number 3, unless that is a mis-stamped gripper Ironmind sent to them. Based on what I've seen in the video, I cannot believe that it is a real attempt at a record and that each person involved to make this record valid has made every record on history with Ironmind look like a joke right now.

The few people who are seen in the video are either unaware of what's happening or don't care. I would believe that if this was a world record that everyone would be happy to see it beaten but that doesn't appear to happen in the video.

My final point on the matter is something I already brought up: the gripper shown in the video was not a #3 and we are being had by a fake attempt at a world record, or, it could be a mis-stamped #3.

No matter what is presented, I'm sure not everything is going to be known at this time and that the "world record" will stand until a proper attempt is made and a true record hold is appointed.

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Randall Strossen

Spare us the smoke, please, as well as the intentional misstatement of facts.

Cutting to the chase, no and no, and to the vital question you forgot to ask, Yes!

Somehow...I feel as I'm going to be sent to isolation.

Sorry, but I didn't watch this—is he going to tell us that he's the real world record holder on the CoC Silver Bullet?

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Randall Strossen

When I started this thread, there was no video at the time. I took it that this feat was real but after viewing the video, without being influenced by other members of this site, I watched the video. The gripper is only shown off once to prove that it was a number 3 but that proof is diminished over time. My biggest concern is around the 7 minute mark where the edit in the video is beyond clear, the bottom of the gripper was never shown to be a #3, so any captain of crush gripper easier than a #3 could have been used. The spring does not look like a number 3, unless that is a mis-stamped gripper Ironmind sent to them. Based on what I've seen in the video, I cannot believe that it is a real attempt at a record and that each person involved to make this record valid has made every record on history with Ironmind look like a joke right now.

The few people who are seen in the video are either unaware of what's happening or don't care. I would believe that if this was a world record that everyone would be happy to see it beaten but that doesn't appear to happen in the video.

My final point on the matter is something I already brought up: the gripper shown in the video was not a #3 and we are being had by a fake attempt at a world record, or, it could be a mis-stamped #3.

No matter what is presented, I'm sure not everything is going to be known at this time and that the "world record" will stand until a proper attempt is made and a true record hold is appointed.

John -

Unfortunately, I would say that for many of us who were not there, there will be the sort of lingering questions and what-ifs that commonly accompany record-level performances, but on the other hand, of course, if deception were discovered, the record would be struck faster than I can say dogleg.

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Randall Strossen

Read the words Randall doesn't say.

He does not care and so do I from this day on.

Is this how you spend your day?

Regardless, take care and all the best with your training.

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Jared Goguen

When I started this thread, there was no video at the time. I took it that this feat was real but after viewing the video, without being influenced by other members of this site, I watched the video. The gripper is only shown off once to prove that it was a number 3 but that proof is diminished over time. My biggest concern is around the 7 minute mark where the edit in the video is beyond clear, the bottom of the gripper was never shown to be a #3, so any captain of crush gripper easier than a #3 could have been used. The spring does not look like a number 3, unless that is a mis-stamped gripper Ironmind sent to them. Based on what I've seen in the video, I cannot believe that it is a real attempt at a record and that each person involved to make this record valid has made every record on history with Ironmind look like a joke right now.

The few people who are seen in the video are either unaware of what's happening or don't care. I would believe that if this was a world record that everyone would be happy to see it beaten but that doesn't appear to happen in the video.

My final point on the matter is something I already brought up: the gripper shown in the video was not a #3 and we are being had by a fake attempt at a world record, or, it could be a mis-stamped #3.

No matter what is presented, I'm sure not everything is going to be known at this time and that the "world record" will stand until a proper attempt is made and a true record hold is appointed.

John -

Unfortunately, I would say that for many of us who were not there, there will be the sort of lingering questions and what-ifs that commonly accompany record-level performances, but on the other hand, of course, if deception were discovered, the record would be struck faster than I can say dogleg.

Randall, I want to make sure I'm reading this correctly, after seeing the video and the evidence presented in this thread you believe there was no deception going on?

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John McCarter

I'm working on getting stills from each person who used the silver bullet and will post them here.

I should also mention that it will be in my google docs, only because I've never been able to figure out how to upload photos directly yet.

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John McCarter

When viewing these photos, the first 3 are the competitors who are not being called into question.

Photos 4-7 are of Dmitriy Suhovarov attempts.

If each are using a Captains of Crush #3, why does in photos 4-7 does the gripper appear to be different than the other photos.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1udvw1CJKbkjCvewVYcjK8XFk2XKlZebvb9gZtCbe57w/edit#slide=id.p

These photos were taken from the same source, the video in question of this claim to the world record that I downloaded last night, incase it went private or was deleted.

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Randall Strossen

When I started this thread, there was no video at the time. I took it that this feat was real but after viewing the video, without being influenced by other members of this site, I watched the video. The gripper is only shown off once to prove that it was a number 3 but that proof is diminished over time. My biggest concern is around the 7 minute mark where the edit in the video is beyond clear, the bottom of the gripper was never shown to be a #3, so any captain of crush gripper easier than a #3 could have been used. The spring does not look like a number 3, unless that is a mis-stamped gripper Ironmind sent to them. Based on what I've seen in the video, I cannot believe that it is a real attempt at a record and that each person involved to make this record valid has made every record on history with Ironmind look like a joke right now.

The few people who are seen in the video are either unaware of what's happening or don't care. I would believe that if this was a world record that everyone would be happy to see it beaten but that doesn't appear to happen in the video.

My final point on the matter is something I already brought up: the gripper shown in the video was not a #3 and we are being had by a fake attempt at a world record, or, it could be a mis-stamped #3.

No matter what is presented, I'm sure not everything is going to be known at this time and that the "world record" will stand until a proper attempt is made and a true record hold is appointed.

John -

Unfortunately, I would say that for many of us who were not there, there will be the sort of lingering questions and what-ifs that commonly accompany record-level performances, but on the other hand, of course, if deception were discovered, the record would be struck faster than I can say dogleg.

Randall, I want to make sure I'm reading this correctly, after seeing the video and the evidence presented in this thread you believe there was no deception going on?

Jared-

I haven't seen a smoking gun—suspicion, hypotheses, mistrust, etc., but no smoking gun. Of course, that's not to say that there isn't one or that it won't be discovered—anything is possible, including that the hold was done as presented.

Edited by Randall Strossen
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Randall Strossen

I'm working on getting stills from each person who used the silver bullet and will post them here.

I should also mention that it will be in my google docs, only because I've never been able to figure out how to upload photos directly yet.

John -

Thank you—this could be interesting, although I would still exercise some caution in interpreting photos as with videos.

Was the referee the same person for the record who was the referee for the other holds?

Yes, and IronMind was told that it was also the same equipment, when we asked—both are standard questions and especially important in this situation, we felt, since this was done as an extra attempt.

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Tom Scibelli

Was the referee the same person for the record who was the referee for the other holds?

This is my question too, because the referee is not on the video when the video comes back on for the record breaking attempt.
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Hubgeezer

Was the referee the same person for the record who was the referee for the other holds?

Yes, and IronMind was told that it was also the same equipment, when we asked—both are standard questions and especially important in this situation, we felt, since this was done as an extra attempt.

I tend to place a lot of faith in referees, for better or worse. It is difficult when you don't know who the fellow is. I know that is a whole lot of the Certification Process that you do, as you are usually selecting the actual Red Nail or C of C Certification judge. It does bother me that you can't see the judge on the video, but if he vouches for it, that certainly is worth something.

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Was the referee the same person for the record who was the referee for the other holds?

Yes, and IronMind was told that it was also the same equipment, when we askedboth are standard questions and especially important in this situation, we felt, since this was done as an extra attempt.

I tend to place a lot of faith in referees, for better or worse. It is difficult when you don't know who the fellow is. I know that is a whole lot of the Certification Process that you do, as you are usually selecting the actual Red Nail or C of C Certification judge. It does bother me that you can't see the judge on the video, but if he vouches for it, that certainly is worth something.

Here's a question, since it seems unquestionable trust is being placed on this referee.... Would you, Dr. Strossen, given the reasonable doubt this attempt generated, trust this same referee to judge another WR or cert attempt? I'm getting the sense that, like a bad call in football, the outcome stays the outcome.

However, in individual sports and in the Olympics, doping or otherwise cheating will result in the athlete being stripped of the medal, and possibly banned for life. You don't see any evidence of cheating here? Direct question..

Edited by jvance
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Justin Matney

He already said he didn't.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I think it's kinda crazy that people are outright telling Strossen to remove the record.

I understand disagreement and offering evidence to the contrary, but outright saying "hey, take that record off your website"? Come on. This isn't the community records forum.

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John McCarter

I would like to pose a question for both sides of the argument that is taking place here.

If there was no video of this event, would the debate be taking place, or, would we accept this feat?

Could the ref have been fooled into believing it was a #3 but the gripper was switched at the last second without noticing?

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Mike Sharkey
This isn't the community records forum.

You're right its not. Those records and lifts are peer reviewed thoroughly, and require careful documentation.

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Justin Matney

My point was that we don't get to vote on Ironmind WR attempts.

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He already said he didn't.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I think it's kinda crazy that people are outright telling Strossen to remove the record.

I understand disagreement and offering evidence to the contrary, but outright saying "hey, take that record off your website"? Come on. This isn't the community records forum.

I agree fully.

But we're free to question his motives if it's obvious that something is not right here.

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Fist of Fury

Read the words Randall doesn't say.

He does not care and so do I from this day on.

I'm with you, although parallel set vs CCS and keeping the same list was bad enough for me to stop caring.

This however really stinks.

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