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Double Underhand Technique Help


JoshW

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Id leave it for now Josh, you've been making good progress so dont slow it down by being too hasty. im exactly the same.. theres been times where people have given me solid advice and i went against it because i got too caught up on the idea of it. as its been said, i really dont mean any offence by this, just want you to keep on making gains.

i recently done a bit too much too soon thats why i thought id chime in. cant pin-point what exercise it was, but ive strained my wrist a little bit so i might have to have a week or so off.. best to keep it safe for now. no doubt you'll get there eventually, your still young and considerably strong for your age so theres pleanty of time :)

Yup understood, I have plenty of time. Appreciate your advice!

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Dude, I'm not telling you not to do it. Or that you can't do it. I'm just saying be ready for more pain than you've ever felt in your life, if you push through the bend until the end.

I can tell you that bear mace and bare hand bending are the worst instant pain a man can know. I've been through a lot and died once. So I'm pretty sure I can tell you that with a non biased opinion.

Edited by EJ Livesey
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Dude, I'm not telling you not to do it. Or that you can't do it. I'm just saying be ready for more pain than you've ever felt in your life, if you push through the bend until the end.

I can tell you that bear mace and bare hand bending are the worst instant pain a man can know. I've been through a lot and died once. So I'm pretty sure I can tell you that with a non biased opinion.

...6'3" 258lbs of pure man

Haha...that always get me.

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Dude, I'm not telling you not to do it. Or that you can't do it. I'm just saying be ready for more pain than you've ever felt in your life, if you push through the bend until the end.

I can tell you that bear mace and bare hand bending are the worst instant pain a man can know. I've been through a lot and died once. So I'm pretty sure I can tell you that with a non biased opinion.

Maybe you should tell me not to do it as it will make me want to do it even more haha. Il take your word on the pain level though brother, wouldn't ever question you on that one!

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Another thing about the two styles of DU (Modified and Strict) is:

  • STRICT DU = you can excel with minimal padding
  • MODIFIED DU = you can excel with fat pads

This is what worked for me. It might differ from bender to bender, but the guys I talked to a lot found the same thing. That doesn't mean they were only able to bend Reds Modified DU with double pads. But for me especially, it meant they were much more comfortable bending Reds with double pads when using Modified DU. Whereas I almost fell asleep bending 5.5" Reds Strict DU with Gamidon's minimal pads that he gave me. And IMPs. And even a very minimal pair of leather that I cut down over time to be thinner than IMPs.

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Another thing about the two styles of DU (Modified and Strict) is:

  • STRICT DU = you can excel with minimal padding
  • MODIFIED DU = you can excel with fat pads

This is what worked for me. It might differ from bender to bender, but the guys I talked to a lot found the same thing. That doesn't mean they were only able to bend Reds Modified DU with double pads. But for me especially, it meant they were much more comfortable bending Reds with double pads when using Modified DU. Whereas I almost fell asleep bending 5.5" Reds Strict DU with Gamidon's minimal pads that he gave me. And IMPs. And even a very minimal pair of leather that I cut down over time to be thinner than IMPs.

5.5" red DU..insane. that seems like it makes sense, I haven't tried anything other than one IMP or singles for modified DU so I might see how much more leverage I can get. I tried a G5 earlier and wobbled it slightly in singles so if I tried it in doubles would I expect a few more degrees to go?

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Another thing about the two styles of DU (Modified and Strict) is:

  • STRICT DU = you can excel with minimal padding
  • MODIFIED DU = you can excel with fat pads

This is what worked for me. It might differ from bender to bender, but the guys I talked to a lot found the same thing. That doesn't mean they were only able to bend Reds Modified DU with double pads. But for me especially, it meant they were much more comfortable bending Reds with double pads when using Modified DU. Whereas I almost fell asleep bending 5.5" Reds Strict DU with Gamidon's minimal pads that he gave me. And IMPs. And even a very minimal pair of leather that I cut down over time to be thinner than IMPs.

5.5" red DU..insane. that seems like it makes sense, I haven't tried anything other than one IMP or singles for modified DU so I might see how much more leverage I can get. I tried a G5 earlier and wobbled it slightly in singles so if I tried it in doubles would I expect a few more degrees to go?

YES. But the caveat is that you might have to get used to being able to exert more force into the bar, which is what the extra padding will enable you to do - exert more force into the bar, without hand discomfort holding you back.

Fat pads almost seem counterintuitive. The more padding, the more some of the force you exert into the bar is "eaten up" by the pads themselves - and not transferred to the bar. You "lose" some of the force that you're trying to transfer. But the force lost is significantly less (unless you are using two sofa cushions as pads, lol) than what you gain by being able to give everything you've got when hand discomfort is not an issue.

It took me a while to get used to the Modified DU style. I almost quit messing with it several times. But it didn't take me nearly as long as getting the hang of "high DO" did. THAT was quite the months-long learning process.

Just remember to keep your hands very close to your body. Try to "lock" your wrists in place and let them (and your hands) transmit the force that your upper body is pouring into them - directly to the bar.

Some guys actively try to flex the wrists on Modified DU. Both ways seem to give the same result to an outside observer. But again, speaking from my experience, beginning with the wrists locked in place was noticeably more effective than trying to actively flex the wrists at the beginning of the bend.

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I keep thinking of additional things to add.

Another key (for me) to unlocking the potential of the Modified DU style is holding the hits longer than the Strict DU hits are normally held. If I didn't move a bar Strict DU in a second or two at most, it wasn't going to go anywhere. I might still occasionally continue trying to move the bar. But actively flexing the wrists to try to move a bar Strict DU, and then not having any movement happen just totally shut down my ability to continue pouring on the effort.

But with Modified DU, I'd sometimes not feel any movement of the bar for up to 3 seconds. Then it would suddenly start to move.

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Very detailed ben, thank you. I could never get the hang of DO, I was just pushing into the ends of the bar and then about a year later I tried again and used my index fingers aswell as pushing into the ends and it just suddenly clicked. I found that you are exactly right, the bar never usually bends straight away - usually takes a few seconds for movement!

I will stick to singles or one IMP I think as with this style I dont really find the pain much of an issue at the moment but everything you said make sense, sometimes it is better to be closer to the bar and to train that way.

Appreciate your detailed response, definitely feel more knowledgeable about DU now :D

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Very detailed ben, thank you. I could never get the hang of DO, I was just pushing into the ends of the bar and then about a year later I tried again and used my index fingers aswell as pushing into the ends and it just suddenly clicked. I found that you are exactly right, the bar never usually bends straight away - usually takes a few seconds for movement!

I will stick to singles or one IMP I think as with this style I dont really find the pain much of an issue at the moment but everything you said make sense, sometimes it is better to be closer to the bar and to train that way.

Appreciate your detailed response, definitely feel more knowledgeable about DU now :D

Thanks, Josh! Glad it helped someone. :)

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I'll say this, and I bent a 60d spiral barehanded. I thought it was absolutely the most painful thing I had ever experienced. Tattoo on the ribs proved me wrong, but still. You have to have a morbid fascination with pain to get into it. Honestly, that's what interested me so much about Gazza. Not the strength, because other people were that strong. Just not many people would willingly be able to inflict that much pain on themselves. There's plenty of tough dudes who can take pain, and really women are far better at handling physical pain then men are, but actually hurting yourself is hard to do. I mean, how many people can turn off the part of their brain that prevents you from punching yourself. Dark stuff.

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Also, you will stab yourself. Its not a matter of if, just when. Raise your hand if you've been to the emergency room from a bending injury! Multiple times?

That being said, I can't honestly discourage you from barehand bending. However, from practical standpoint, you should do mostly minimal pad bending, and by that I mean very minimal - I bent a grade 8 bolt in 1/2 of an IMP I cut. I'll tell you from a theological standpoint that was plenty painful. Bending a Red in a single IMP is a huge feat of strength and pain tolerance. Ostulnd DU style was my favorite.

Edited by Mike Sharkey
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Gazza is just inhuman. Although I could barely get a G8 past 35degrees DO in doubles so that G8 work in minimal padding is ridiculous, I'm beginning to see the value of bending in minimal padding. Most who bend 400lb+ stock in minimal padding tend to be absolute animals in singles and doubles.

I need to find something slightly weaker than a G5 to work on..

Thanks Mike I appreciate your input, all those times you've told me to cut down the wraps lol I didn't see the value of that until now!

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Gazza is just inhuman. Although I could barely get a G8 past 35degrees DO in doubles so that G8 work in minimal padding is ridiculous, I'm beginning to see the value of bending in minimal padding. Most who bend 400lb+ stock in minimal padding tend to be absolute animals in singles and doubles.

I need to find something slightly weaker than a G5 to work on..

Thanks Mike I appreciate your input, all those times you've told me to cut down the wraps lol I didn't see the value of that until now!

Ask Jose. After bending in a single IMP for a couple weeks he saw a real change in his bending. Even 60D's in a single IMP are worthwhile.

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Is it worth sticking to DU in a single IMP or doing volume with DO aswell?

I remember jose putting up a video of a G5 in one IMP, il be sure to ask him.

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I read through everything really quick, but saw that there is a ton of good information already, so I won't repeat what has been said. I do agree with Mike in that barehand bending is brutal. I messed around a little with it, but didn't see much of a payoff for myself, and a huge negative instead, as the potential for career-ending injury was enough for me to pass on it.

The one thing I did do barehanded was long bar (5/8"). This was a lot of fun to do and possible via different techniques. The bars that I was doing barehanded (from memory) were all close to 36" and were started over the head. A few years back, I saw some of the guys who were doing shorter stuff barehanded, and wanted to try with more involvement, on several occasions, but the fear of impalement and working with the long bars was enough to stay away from it.

I've been bending both strict and modified DU for years, and definitely am a lot stronger with modified. But, I've always kept to smaller wraps. (My DU Bastard was in 1.2" wraps: BBW and a short piece of suede.) Aside from that, most of the big bends I've been able to do have been in singles (IMPs and/or BBW). This has always carried over very well for my DO, which I've had to back off a lot over the past few years due to some injuries. But the DU-DO dynamic has worked really well, with minimal reps and has kept the old injuries at bay.

One thing that Ben mentioned is excellent. You really have to learn how to hold your hits longer with modified DU. I've worked up from quick hits to 5-10 seconds with a lot of rep-work. This is the zone where you will start to move bigger steel. But, you need to map your progression to this with smart training. I've seen excellent DU benders (video and in-person) lose consciousness for a split-second with long hits. Holding your hits for an extra second-or-two can be brutal! It won't happen overnight either. (This hasn't happened to me yet, but I've seen plenty of stars on some of these bars.) The more comfortable you get with this mindset, and reps you get in at this level, things will start to feel right, and you will be able to explode into your hits longer-and-longer.

On another note, strict DU is an excellent challenge and way to strengthen your wrists. From memory, it didn't take me long to bend a grade 5 with singles, but it took a long time to get past that with drill rod. (I usually bent with 1/2" between the wraps.) I don't have nearly the amount of time spent with this style compared to modified-DU, but all of these styles complement one another well, with smart programming.

Just stay with it and it will start to click. Have fun experimenting with both styles!

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I need to find something slightly weaker than a G5 to work on..

Thanks Mike I appreciate your input, all those times you've told me to cut down the wraps lol I didn't see the value of that until now!

Have you tried 1/4" Hex from Fastenal or McMaster, or any steel supplier? I found it slightly easier (barely) than the Triangle 1/4" Grade 5s. And MUCH cheaper than any Grade 5. Another good one to use is 5/16" HRS. It has to be "real" HRS though. Otherwise it'll feel way harder than a Grade 5. I've found 5/16" HRS that was easier than a Grade 5. I assume others can do the same.

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Read through the thread, lots of great stuff in here. Here's my contribution:

Screw all of you; I'm going to be a pansy and never, ever bend anything barehanded.

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Very detailed thank you ! I sure will stick to it. Looking forward to my next session already but think my gripper strength might take a hit.

Also thanks Ben for the recommendation, they should be reasonably easy to get at!

Lol Anthony had a good laugh at that..never know till you try!

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I have to say I have really enjoyed reading through everyones experiences and advice, thank you all - Ben, Carl, EJ, Frank, Mike etc

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  • 4 years later...

A notification came up that @anwnate liked one of my posts in this thread (thanks, Nate!) and it was cool timing.  I just sent vikingsrule92 a picture of a 6" Edgin that I only got to 25 degrees Modified DU (in 30 seconds) back in 2009.  Used fat pads.  I found some other big failures (lol) from my strongest days in a tackle box that I just threw a bunch of big steel (training stuff for me at the time) into years back during one of my garage cleaning sessions.  There was a Mag Shiny at well over 60 degrees (Modified DU) and some crushdown stuff that I had forgotten I even got movement on.  The trouble with that stuff is that I had bending record keeping OCD and much preferred when something was completed.  From straight to the tips under 2".  Like most of us.  But some of the bends were important enough to me that I wrote in permanent marker on them.  I enjoyed finding more of them last night when I had a bit of time to go through the mass of bars in the tackle box. 

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10 minutes ago, bencrush said:

A notification came up that @anwnate liked one of my posts in this thread (thanks, Nate!) and it was cool timing.  

I've been going through this vast repository of info looking to learn more about DU.  While I dont expect to reach the rarified air you did Ben...I think bending a Red (single IMPs) in all three styles is a reasonable goal.  You really set the bar high man.

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