Events and apparatus to test grip strength.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

I have been thinking about the events used in grip stength contests. There are pinching contests, squeezing contests, and holding contests.

I have already made a pinch grip machine so don't feel like making another one. Well, I have to improve on the existing one to make it suit all individuals and have a larger weight stack to challenge future users.

When it comes to holding large dumbbells then we have seen some controversial results. It seems that those with larger hands are excelling in the "Rolling Thunder" apparatus. If this is so then perhaps that event does reward large hands and not grip strength per se. If we calculate the circumference from the arithmetic formula 3.14 X D then we can see that for every 1/8 inch more in diameter we have added about 3/8 inches in circumference. That is a lot. A handle that is 2 inches thick will be about 6 inches in circumference. When you go to 2 1/2 inches then the circumference jumps up to 7 1/2 inches. At 2 3/8 inches the circumference is still over 7 inches. Therefore large hands with long fingers give an advantage because they can go around more of the bar.

The problem I am having is that Rolling Thunder contests occur partly because they are sponsored by the manufacturer. No doubt those contests require immense strength to lift over 200 pounds. However, it has been noted by observers than the men succeeding with that amount of weight are usually over 6' 2" tall with large hands to boot.

How then does one design an event that gives most people a chance to win? If we use a 2" thick handle I am sure more average sized men will fare better than with thicker handles. However, the thinner the handle the more weight that can be lifted and then we are testing other muscles and not merely the gripping ones. At the moment the 2 3/8 handle keeps the weights under 300 pounds. What is possible with a 2" handle? Perhaps over 400 pounds. That is getting to be a very heavy weight to lift with one hand and might be dangerous on the connective tissue.

If it is a fact that hand size is too big a factor in that event then perhaps it is not suitable for everyone to compare on. Perhaps if the event is included then hand size could be measured and categories included to suit a small, medium and large hand. Whenever such considerations are necessary the event seems to go out the window. However, we all recognize that bodyweight makes a difference in weight lifting and have categories based on that factor.

I was wondering if some of you grippers could make suggestions about the ways to properly test grip strength. Only then can proper testing machines be designed and built. We really have to establish what we want.

There is a similar problem with testing squeezing grip strength. Should a movement resemble that of a gripper or should the handles be parallel? Either machine could be built. We could then determine to a pound the forces generated by individuals. That surely has to be preferable to 5 categories used on those CoC grippers. We could also then test and rate everyone who has ever closed the number three grippers and see who has the strongest closing power.

I personally find measuring people interesting. Perhaps many others can't see the point. At the moment so many grip enthusiasts want to close a #3 because there is a prestigious list of those who have succeeded. It is surely but a step from that to have ratings based on actual poundages closed on a machine. I am sure it would be just as impressive to squeeze lift a 300 pound weight stack as it would be to close a CoC #3. We would eliminate all the differences in the various springs and finally be able to compare all the men and women who want to register a lift.

It is also possible to build other grip testing machines. I want to stay away from any event that allows a hook grip where the thumb is squeezed between the fingers and bar.

I am more concerned with what is required instead of whether it is desirable. I am confident that once proper testing machines are available that they will be of benefit to everyone who likes to measure their gripping power.

[Guest StrongerthanArne]

Vince,

My guess is that grippers will continue to be very popular, both for workouts and contests. Most of us like to show off our grip strength to other people to some extent, and this is easily done with a device that can fit into your pocket. This will contunue to be a huge advantage to using a plate loading machine for example, not to mention competing on a device in Australia. The disadvantages using grippers will become much less of a problem with the arrival of calibrated grippers on the market. I am not so sure that you would be so negative towards grippers had you been able to close a #4.

[Roark]

Vince,

David Horne's IRON GRIP magazine publication printed

a list I composed about hand length/handle circumference

and famous bars of various diameters.

For illustrative purposes if your hand length is the

same as the bar circumference, you are at ground

zero. Of course, as the hand length ratio decreases

because a thicker bar is used, then your potential

lift decreases.

The absolute fair way would be (a promoter's nightmare)

to have a bar for every ground zero size!

Who would be the man with the 'shortest hand' who has

so far deadlifted the Inch bell or a replica? Who with the

longest hand? Do we really consider the two men to have

performed the 'same' lift?

[supersqueeze]

What is required from a machine is that there is no way to cheat on it. This is very hard to engineer out of a stationary device because one can always find a way to pull, push or twist to gain added advantage. This can't be done with freely moving objects (grippers, pinched weights, thick dumbells, etc.). Figure out a way to make such a machine and you may have a start.

-Mike M.

[Guest CalvinP]

I guess we can use a formula of hand's length divided by a fix number. The outcome will decide how thick the diameter of a handle should be for a given contestant. As long as it can be calculated within 1/4" of an inch rounded up whichever is less. For Ex:

If

- Hand length is 7.5" divided by 3.5 = 2.14 diameter

- 3.5 is a number I made up ( a bit more than Pi number)

- In this case a two inches diameter handle should be used for that contestant.

A 8 inches long hand will use:

- 8 divided by 3.5 = 2.28"

- 2.1/4" diameter is used  (whichever less within 1/4")

A 9 inches long hand should use:

- 9 divided by 3.5 = 2.57

- 2.5" diameter used (whichever is less within 1/4")

FAIR ENOUGH?

Event Promoter will have to have interchangeable handle of various sizes. Which really is not that many because whichever less rule

[KJM]

Unfortunately, as a practical matter a standardized piece of equipment, used by all contestants will have to suffice.

The finger length argument is akin to those people with long arms complaining that their bench press results are skewed due to the distance they have to push the bar.

Not everyone can be a winner at all things.

May be the IGC will consider hand size as a classification rather than bodyweight, which has less application in grip strength. I've noticed that over the years, there have been a fair # of COCs who weigh 220lbs or less.

[Roark]

KJM,

I see no parallel between arm length/bench press and

hand length/grip. There is more a parallel in the WSM

contests where shorter men are required to place the

stones at the same height as taller men, or very

short men deadlifting a bar sitting at the same height

as very tall men.

Further, arm length/bench press is a leverage factor

not a grip factor in any meaningful way, just as, among

strong men, the diameter or the Inch bell matters much

less in the overhead than in the cleaning, because the

harder part involving grip is overcome.

Certainly not everyone can be a winner in all things,

but the 7' man dunking a basketball should not feel

the same sense of accomplishment as the 6' man doing

the same feat.

I have long held that Apollon could have toyed with the

Inch 172. But so what? His hands were 9" long! He

SHOULD have toyed with it.

All I meant to convey, is that if everyone lifts a bell

whose handle is the same measurement as his hand

length, there is no way for anyone to scream foul. The

playing field is even.

[Tom Black]

I've been letting this thread develop before I put my two cents in.  I think the different handle sizes would be a fair test, but it is obviously impractical to implement.  Not that I'm suggesting the IGC would do this, but maybe a formula could be developed similar to the bodyweight formula that's used between the different weight classes in powerlifting and weightlifting.  Basically, everyone would use the same lifting implement and then their hand size would be plugged into the formula and then they could be compared to determine a winner.  Of course, this would probably be in addition to the overall winner.  That is, highest weight would win, and then the highest weight with the formula would also win.  A win-win situation.  The formula could be extrapolated from real data comparing the amount lifted by the same individual on different sized implements.  I curve could be created and averaged over different test subjects.

[Guest CalvinP]

Well said Tom

[KJM]

Roark,

Let me clarify. My point was that the guy with the longer arms doesn't get a different starting point in the bench to accomodate the fact that he is pushing the bar a greater distance. Your WSM example argues my point.

While a 7foot basketball player should not have the same sense of accomplishment, the NBA doesn't lower the basket when a 6 footer is driving the lane. All players, no matter what the height shoot at the same goal.

Utilizing bars of different circumference is going to invite controversy.  Your very informative posts of grip history prove the point. Every now and then someone posts a "yeah, but...." comment to a historical grip feat due to the lack of consistency among items lifted.

Regards,

KJM

[Roark]

KJM,

The basketball hoop is not lowered, so the real

measurement is how far up did the given player

have to jump? Also, shorter men, generally are

not recruited for post positions. (I'm taking a chance

here because my basketball knowledge is dismal.)

My WSM example shows that short men must enter

into body positions (to reach the platform) that taller

men are not required to assume. In the bench press

each lifter goes his range of motion, and neither is re-

quired to get into body positions beyond the movement's

requirements. It would be as though, having completed a

C&J each lifter was required to place the barbell on a

tall platform; who would have the advantage?

I know we are somewhat apple/oranging this, but it

seems to me that the absolute fair way would be to

match hand/handle length/curc. As Arthur Jones used

to say, cars would be safer without doors, but not

practical. Perhaps my idea isn't either. Anyway, I ap-

preictae your thoughts.

Tom is probably close to the practical solution, some

sort of formula.

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Just a quick thought. Is hand length really the only determining factor? If two people both have 8" long hands yet one has 4" long fingers and a 4" long palm while the other has 5" long fingers and a 3" long palm is there an advantage for each one on different lifts?

How about the width of the palms? Someone who has 8" long hands with extra wide palms, say 5" wide would be a distinct disadvantage when lifting the Inch dumbell which has a 4" wide handle when compared to a lifter with narrower palms and most probably smaller hands. Also a lifter with narrow fingers will be able to distribute more power towards the end of the handles of a torsion spring gripper than someone with thicker fingers. It seems that there are many variables to be considered.

A interesting quote from "Strong Man Stunts Made Easy" (p.17) by George F. Jowett states:

"Thomas Inch has one of the most marvelous grips I ever saw demonstarted by a man. His hands are so small he can wear a number 6 1/4 woman's glove and wear a woman's ring upon any of his fingers. His wrist measures only 6 1/4 inches. His remarkable grip, along with his massively-formed arm, proves there is no truth in the worn-out belief that men with small bones cannot have a powerful grip or build a mighty muscled arm."

Arthur

[Roark]

Arthur,

This is the first time I have ever seen a

measurement for Inch's wrist at 6.5"- another source

says 6"; both measurements are, in my opinion, too

small. Willoughby says Inch's right wrist was 7.2 to

7.6 depending on his bodyweight.

Inch played on having small wrists and hands to make

it even more of a feat when he 'lifted' the 172. But

to give him his due, Willoughby also allowed that Inch

had a 14.2" forearm at a heavy bodyweight (240 lbs)

which would give him that a remarkable ratio but not

the elusive 2:1 (which would require 15.2)

Notice in many photos of Inch his hand size is not

easily determined.

You are correct that a wide hand would prevent

someone from fitting onto the Inch bell, but so far

as I have heard NO ONE who has tried to lift the Inch

or a replica has commented that his hand would not

fit between the globes, and we are speaking of some

very large men here.

If I were forced to discard the writings of any of the

oldtimers in regard to accuracy in history, Jowett would

hit the fire first.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

What is clear from most of the posts is that lifting thick-handled bars favours people with large hands. It may be that having large hands is not an advantage in 2 inch pinch gripping, whereas having hands a certain size and shape is. I doubt if making all contests fair by taking into account factors in hand size and shape will ever happen. However, why can't those people who can close a #3 also lift the Inch Dumbbell? I have no idea if they can or can't. My point is that anyone who can close a #3 has a superstrong grip. Surely that should transfer to dumbbell lifting. Of course, there might be other factors involved so one has to be careful about such conjectures.

At the moment the Rolling Thunder undoubtedly favours people with large hands. There is nothing wrong with such contests. However, should we include that kind of contest in a grip testing event open to all people? It is possible to build a machine to accommodate all hand sizes. We pointed out previously that such accommodation has to be accurate because every mm in diameter equals about 3 mm in hand grip circumference. That means hand size measured by having a person grip a series of thicker handles until his thumb and longest finger touches. If hand size varies greatly so that 10 different thicknesses are required then contests will have little meaning from a spectator point of view.

It follows that one of two things might be done. Have a formula as suggested by Tom Black, or NOT have thick-handled lifting as a test of grip strength. Any apparatus designed to test grip strength has to give everyone a fair go and not disadvantage most people. There are always going to be some activities that favour "freaks" and that cannot be helped. However, before we decide on which events are going to be used to demonstrate and test grip strength then we cannot build suitable devices to use.

Hand grippers are a great invention. Recent improvements on these items have made them very popular. However, the increments between the numbers are too great. The higher the number the less ability those grippers have of testing differences in strength. If you pass the Trainer around in mixed company very few women can close them. Not all men can, either. Some can. Next, let them try a #1 and you will find that only one or two can close them. Some get close but women usually barely move them. A #2 will not find many succeed no matter how strong they are. Some will just about close them and others might get them within an inch of closing. The #3 will seem impossible to everyone! Anyone capable of closing that gripper without prior grip training will be a veritable superman! The torsion resistance of those grippers, as everyone knows, starts at 100 lbs, then 140, 195, 280 and finally 365. If my example is about right then we need an apparatus that will test grip strength from about 50 pounds all the way up to 400 pounds. That will accommodate all individuals. The springs do not differentiate among most people. Among strong grip people they do not easily measure grip strength either. Therefore grippers are not a good testing device although they certainly measure thresholds. That fact has been embraced by the gripper manufacturers and thus we find lists for #3 people.

It appears that the main test of grip strength is squeezing. There are two ways strength can be tested. By seeing how much force can be generated on a hand grip. That is how those laboratory hand gripper measuring devices work. The other way is having a person close two handles that are parallel or diverging. Hand size does not matter all that much because we can have the handles moved to a certain distance before being credited with moving a specific amount of weight. It might be that holding dumbbells is a variation of squeezing strength.

To test closing grip strength it is possible to build a machine that tries to eliminate using momentum or other means to assist a grip pull. Exercise scientists have two methods of testing grip strength. One is having the user hold the hand unit overhead at arm's length then squeezing while lowering the arm while keeping the arm straight. The reading is then taken at the bottom of the movement. The other method has the user holding the unit with arm bent at right angles and the upper arm held steady at the side of the body. It seems that the latter method resembles what most people do when they close hand grippers.

If we can agree on the method and event desired to test grip closing strength then it makes the task of designing an apparatus to measure and test that ability much easier. I can see having a machine with a grip handle that a person holds while they are standing erect. Shorter people will adjust the foot platform so that the arm is at right angles to the hand. A moveable back rest can then be adjusted against the user's back so that no backward movement of the body is possible. That would then eliminate most possibilities of 'cheating' in the testing procedure.

The other method is to have the person seated and the seat adjusted so that the arm is at right angles. You can see that having the user seated eliminates needing a moveable foot platform. It is then a preferred design and should be able to give a level playing field to all those wanting to be compared to other grip enthusiasts. Of course we need to retain the moveable back support.

The grip handles of squeezing machines would be connected to a weight stack that accommodates all individuals. The incruments between plates can be one pound or half a kilo depending on what is preferred. Then we will have a device that can measure grip closing strength of everyone down to a single pound. That surely is preferred to grippers that have 40 to 85 pound  increments, and nothing in between.

Perhaps others can offer their suggestions about the specifics of such an apparatus.

[wannagrip]

The torsion resistance of those grippers, as everyone knows, starts at 100 lbs, then 140, 195, 280 and finally 365.

I don't get it Vince. It's like everything everyone says or has said seems to go in one ear and out the other.  These numbers mean nothing.  No, everyone here knows the INCH-LB ratings of IM grippers varies a LOT. Typical values were even posted by someone TODAY.

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Machines have already been built for testing crushing grip strength. Dynamometers have been around for a very long time. Then you have machines like PDA's new offering the "Gripanator", developed with a tremendous amount of input from grip trainers worldwide. It has taken an immense amount of feedback into account. It most closely resembles the motion of a hand held gripper with the angle of the handles, skew angles, handle length along with a multitude of other factors all taken into consideration.

But again the torsion spring grippers, while they may seem a novelty for some, are the measure of a crush grip in my mind. You have not only balance them in your hand but your hand is free to move anywhere you like, to the side, above your head, out in front, to the back, between the legs and so on. With PDA's SOS grippers pre-calibrated and pre-seasoned you can begin to accurately measure your progressive grip strength. While I do feel machines such as the Gripanator do come very close to the real thing, I feel they are a means to an end, a tool to help assist in closing the "real thing".

I think Nick McKinless hit the nail on the head with his crushing event for the Australian Grip Championships. For more info see the post

Australian Grip Champs

Although machines can be used in competitions it must be available to all contestants well in advance of the competition in order for them to train on it and become familiar with it. Otherwise we would have an unfair competition.

Roark,

I think the measurements are quite ridiculous to be honest. 6 1/4 inches is incredibly small and from photos I have seen his wrists don't look anywhere near that small but quite thick from the side on. I can't remember who told me or if I read it somewhere but I can vaguely recall that apparently Arthur Saxon had extremely wide palms and found it difficult to get a good hand placing on the Inch dumbell. Don't quote me on it though.

Arthur

[Guest 86-1005097353]

To answer Wannagrip: I was quoting the numbers on the packages of the Captains of Crush grippers. I have no idea what they actually are and I gather neither does anyone else!

Not precisely, anyway. No one can say what a specific gripper will measure on a calibrating device if that already hasn't been done.

To Arthur: Yes, apparatus have to be available to contestants otherwise the contests are unfair to those unable to train using them. That still isn't an argument against having competition machines.

The PDA Gripanator is a training apparatus but I don't think is a testing device. It is an apparatus that has several of the grip functions available and that is a unique piece of gym equipment. I doubt if a multi-functioned apparatus can be used to measure and test grip strength. There is no mechanism to determine if an attempt has been successful. Also, the user has to add barbell plates and they can vary from plate to plate re weight. It is far better to have a weight stack with a tripping mechanism that indicates a successful lift. Once the machine has precision in the amount of resistance selected it is half way to being a testing device. The other main requirement is for the machine to be user friendly and mimic the actual movements in gripping.

Having contests using various apparatus is an enjoyable thing. However the down side of using different devices and apparatus is that no camparisons can be made between the results of contests. There is no proper standard apparatus. No two barbell pinch grip plates, for example,are identical and therefore using such plates introduces variations into contests. Those variations make it invalid to compare results done elsewhere unless done on the identical apparatus.

The past and present history of grip events and contests will clearly reveal an unsatisfactory state regarding feats and records. The armchair enthusiast has no way to compare the feats done over the years. How much longer are we going to endure this state of affairs? It seems unnecessary to do so if we have the will and means to change things.

[Guest CalvinP]

KJM

Gripping sport is a very specific game, unlike any other sport where the size of the hand really affects the outcome. In fact, there is no other sports that size matters so much. More so than NBA, more so than boxing... When there is all way someone unhappy about certain rule,we have to go with the best one which majority of people agree.

As far as bench pressing concerns, long arm can be adjusted by varying the distance between the hand. So that by the time the bar touches your chest, all elbows are at about same degree of bend. Whatever you feel comfortable. The starting point is the same for everyone: From the chest, and long arm people have thicker chest, bigger pec muscles, thus reduce the distance. Any way! once you get the weight pass the sticking point. it doesn't matter how much more you have to go.

But if the handle is too big, there is nothing you can do to go around other way. Simply none! So in fairness for all, like others has written: "fingers touching each other around the handle is pretty fair" Even if there is a small (1/8") gap between the finger tips should be ok. Otherwise there will be to many handles for accomdate everyone (can you imagine boxing with 35 weight classes?) Let all be happy with that for now

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Vince,

It was not an argument against using machines in a contest.

You also didn't comment on the use of dynamometers as a measuring device.

Also the pre-calibrated grippers to be used in the Australian Grip comp will be used in the Bristish and US grip comps next year bringing some standardisation to the event.

Also a point on machines. You stated that "No two barbell pinch grip plates, for example,are identical and therefore using such plates introduces variations into contests." The machines you theorise will also use plates. Hence as you yourself have stated above since no two barbell plates are identical it also goes to say that no two plates being used in your machines will be identical and therefore no two machines will be identical hence also introducing variations into contests.

Arthur

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Many of the posts above have good points in them. It has been pointed out that in many sports certain characteristics are a distinct advantage. In professional basketball someone 6 foot 4 inches tall is considered short! If the sport were dunking basketballs then there would have to be height classes. There is a test called the vertical jump where a person jumps and marks a height as high as he can on a ruler. It is easy to measure how high a person can reach while standing flat-footed. It is a simple matter to calculate who can jump the highest over what can be reached. Again, height categories might be a factor in determining who has the most leg power.

There is no doubt that certain physical types excel in different sports. In gymnastics there are seldom men over 6 feet tall or women over 5 feet 6 inches.

Bodybuilders have certain frames and joints and muscle lengths. Powerlifters have physiques that suit deadlifting and squatting. And so it goes in most sports. I need not mention jockeys!

As physical educators what is to be done in schools to make participation fairer? Discus throwers usually have long levers. Shot putters are usually tall. It is fair to say that the majority of people are not suited for Olympic competition no matter how hard they train. A bit like the way very few men ever win the Mr Olympia contest. We all know these contests favour specifically gifted people and there is not much anyone can do about it.

Perhaps there should be categories in throwing events and basketball and so on. That would increase participation and make competitions much more fair and interesting. It would also make it unnecessary to be a freak to succeed.

Arthur has some valid concerns about apparatus:

**You also didn't comment on the use of dynamometers as a measuring device.**

My answer is that I believe the mechanism used in hand dynamometers is based on springs and that might not test the grip strength the way we might desire. It seems to measure an isometric or static force and while that is one measurement I am sure grip enthusiasts would like to see a weight rise and a flag fall to indicate a success. On the other hand if dynamometers are accurate they could be used in competitions. However, I believe a far more accurate and suitable device will have to be made first.

Arthur said, **Also the pre-calibrated grippers to be used in the Australian Grip comp will be used in the Bristish and US grip comps next year bringing some standardisation to the event.**

By all means have such events. However, how do you determine who is the strongest of the people who can close a certain number gripper? If two people close a number 3 do they tie for first place? There is no doubt calibrated grippers are a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, I believe that step is down the wrong path and will not lead to satisfaction. At best such contests will be an occasion for people to get recognition for closing difficult grippers.

Arthur goes on to say, **Also a point on machines. You stated that "No two barbell pinch grip plates, for example,are identical and therefore using such plates introduces variations into contests." The machines you theorise will also use plates. Hence as you yourself have stated above since no two barbell plates are identical it also goes to say that no two plates being used in your machines will be identical and therefore no two machines will be identical hence also introducing variations into contests.**

Well, Arthur, I was referring to the plates used in various pinch grip contests. Two one inch plates of a certain diameter together may or may not resemble others with those dimensions. You also have to consider the surface and the edges. My idea of a standard is to use stainless steel. In the pinch grip the stainless steel is precision ground then polished to a mirror finish. Engineers know exactly what is required to reproduce that standard. That is a very smooth surface and sets a standard. Other finishes that are not as smooth will fail to reach the required standard and cannot be ratified for use in competitions.

The handles used in squeezing machines will also be smooth stainless steel. No knurling will be used because you cannot accurately reproduce knurling. Also knurled surfaces change over time and use. It is easy to set a standard diameter. Either 1 inch, 28 mm, or 1 1/8 inches as used in gyms around the world. Once we settle on a diameter all grip testing machines must be identical. That is so easy to do. Inch and 1 1/8 shafting is available in most countries. The surface can be polished to a smooth finish. The grips can be designed so that they can be removed to be polished on occasion.

[Guest StrongerthanArne]

Calibrated grippers will be used on Saturday for Löddeköpinge Grip Challenge II. Unfortunately, the SOS grippers on order have not arrived so we only have three calibrated CoC grippers, including a 286 ip #2, a 396 ip #3 and a 410 ip #3. Comparable ip numbers with the #2 as standard (adjusted for handle length and coil diametre), as it conforms with the new SOS standard for handle length, is 390 and 411 ip for the #3's. The other two events include pinch with dirty iron plates @ 62 mm width and the Rolling Thunder. I can assure you Vince that crushing strength does not translate to the ability of hanging on to a thick bar. The latter tests open hand strength plus wrist strength (one can lift more with a RT if one manage to keep the wrist straight). I can close a #3 (and do well on the Ivanko Super Gripper) but have troubles lifting more than 70 kg on the RT (after a total of three months training with thick bars). In the competition there are guys who will be outclassed by me in the gripper event but who will outclass me in the RT.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Thanks, Mikael, for that information.

A pity there aren't grippers in the 350 ip area. That would help to separate the lads. Just wondering how a winner is determined in gripper contests if two people close the same gripper?

The Rolling Thunder lift surely doesn't reward pinching ability or squeezing power although everything helps. What helps the most is being able to get your fingers further around the thicker handle. What do people with average sized hands do? They know they can't win the RT event but can do well in the other contests. We have discussed this in some length in this thread already and it is clear that much dissatisfaction exists with the event. Naturally all those who cannot excel might blame their small hands when that is not the only factor!

This grip board has several fellows who can close a number 3 but not many seem to excel at the Rolling Thunder challenge. Has anyone worked out what a good standard is in the RT event?

Hope you post the results of that contest complete with some comments about the events.

[wannagrip]

To answer Wannagrip: I was quoting the numbers on the packages of the Captains of Crush grippers. I have no idea what they actually are and I gather neither does anyone else!

So you are just quoting what's on there...oh...that's not how it read.

Actually we do know. And, again, it's been stated here OVER and OVER again on this forum but you don't seem to want to listen.

[Guest StrongerthanArne]

Vince,

As in Löddeköpinge Grip Challenge I (will be featured in the next Iron Grip), we will separate those that close the same grippers (we compete with both hands in all three events) with strapholds. For LGC III in March next year we should have recieved additional SOS grippers that we have ordered including a 300, 315, 330 and 360 ip gripper. Depending on the results of Saturday's comp we may have to order a 430 ip as well .

Cheers