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David Wigren Is In The Grip Well!


Bill Piche

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David Wigren


Age 29


Height 188cm


Weight 78Kg



Best lifting numbers IPF standard


Squat: 175kg


Bench: 132.5kg


Deadlift: 205kg



Grip


Gripper - #3 for 8 reps MMS


2HP – 74kg


RT – 87kg


Strict Sledge Hammer Deadlift 5kg/11lbs hammer grabbing behind 27”


Plate curl – rep 15kg easily. Sloppy singles with 20kg plates



Steel bending


DO – 6.5” Edgin big wraps, BattleBar Ironmind pads


DU – Insane Bastard, Shiny Bastard


Reverse – always in IMP’s or sub 1” leathers, 7” 470lbs bar full bend, Sexabastard and Edgin partial 10 degree bends


Horseshoe – Werkmann Special Hind #4 to 160 degrees


Long braced – 28”x20mm HRS


Short braced – 4”x3/8” Sivaco spike. 7”x7/16 MOAB.



I was first introduced to grip back in 2002. I suffered a wrist injury in my left wrist that I sustained during a snatch in a weightlifting comp back in 2005. The injury lingered with me and interrupted my grip and regular strength training. It wasn’t until 2007 when I started training my wrists directly that my wrist recovered and eventually got stronger than I ever was before the injury. I started steel bending that year. Over the years I’ve experimented with a lot of different training ideas. I’ve made most of my gains in the steel bending by doing different types of isometric exercises and dynamic exercises focused on both hitting and developing the muscles associated with a movement and carefully under controlled movements load up the joints in order to strengthen them as well. I’ve put much attention to technique and it has enabled me to bend some relatively impressive steel over the years.



I can answer any questions on steel bending, both on training and technique. I’ve got a lot of ideas on sledge levering and wrist training, working all the different muscles associated with ulnar/radial deviation, flexion and extension, supination and pronation. I wouldn’t call myself an expert on grip training. The other gentlemen in the well are far more knowledgeable on that than me, but with that in mind, if anyone wants to know about my grip training I’d be happy to answer those questions too.


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Your levering strength is well noted. Do you think isometrics or dynamic training through a ROM is better for sledge dead/levering strength. This area has been a weakness of mine and I'd like to eliminate the deficiency. Thanks in advance.

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How to progress in sledge deadlift in the best possible way?

High reps or heavy singles for levering strength?

Training to failure/exhaustion or leavin some in the tank every session?

Im proud of you man, making a name for yourself and ending up in the well! :D

Puttin Sweden on the map hehe

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Hello David, Im excited to see you in the well thanks for takin out the time to do this.

You've shown yourself to be one of the most well rounded steel benders around, what suggestions would you have for a person aspiring to do the same? What was youre bending rotation like? How do you schedule the different forms of steel bending; frequency of reverse vs DO and DU? Do you practice braced and unbraced bending simultaneously or in seperate cycles?

Youre wrist strength is off the charts, what helped you most, sledges or bending? Youve been working your wrists very intensely for many years, what has helped you keep them healthy?

Thank you very much David.

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What exercises carry over to reverse bending?

Plate curls, sledging, etc?

What's best for pure wrist strength for reversing??

Thanks david!

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Yay. Hey David!

Questions:

What is your thoughts about Heslep Style in Bending?

What is your thoughts about Barehanded bending (as in no protection). Looks crazy of course.

Thanks and great job representing Örebro :D Hehe fantastic.

/ Tobias

Edited by Six Barrel Shotgun
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Your levering strength is well noted. Do you think isometrics or dynamic training through a ROM is better for sledge dead/levering strength. This area has been a weakness of mine and I'd like to eliminate the deficiency. Thanks in advance.

Isometrics will help you build strength quick. It’s a great tool to tap into the potential your joints and muscles are capable of. But the problem IMO is that it doesn’t build that much muscle and “raw” strength that you need to progress to heavier and heavier weights. You need to do both! Work on exercises that stress the joints AND exercises that stress the muscles! For sledgehammers and levering, most people are already doing movements where the only significant force is put at the extreme position of the joint, so in effect it’s an iso at the extreme point. For example, when you’re doing a heavy choke lift, you have maximum ulnar flexion in your wrist and you are working your radial muscles on top of the forearm in this extreme position. This is in effect an isometric hold at this position. But this doesn’t work the muscles that effectively. IMO. To build the radial muscles you need to throw in some super strict exercises where you contract the muscles and move the wrist!

I recently posted a video on Facebook where I work on the ulnar muscle https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153004113436100&pnref=story If you do these as strict as you can for 10 reps or so, you should feel a serious burn in your forearm. Doesn’t hit the wrist very hard since you need to use a much lighter weight. I’m using a 6lbs hammer in the video, I grab it further down the handle and I still need to cheat a bit to get it done! In this particular exercise I always feel my strength drop quickly during the set! So to really get some volume in, I have to move my hand further and further up the handle as I get more and more fatigued.

How to progress in sledge deadlift in the best possible way?

High reps or heavy singles for levering strength?

Training to failure/exhaustion or leavin some in the tank every session?

Im proud of you man, making a name for yourself and ending up in the well! :D

Puttin Sweden on the map hehe

Hello Peter my friend! It’s an honor to be in the well. It’s cold, wet, and dark down here. But at least I’m in great company lol!

When it comes to the exercises that are heavy on the wrists in radial or ulnar directions i.e. hammer deadlifts or face levers, I try to leave a bit in the tank every session. With those types of exercisesI only ever go to failure if I’ve got the camera rolling and I’m shooting for some kind of PR. It’s SO easy to strain your wrists. If I go for a max with a really heavy weight or I go to rep failure with a lighter weight, it’s not uncommon for my wrist to be a bit stiff and sore afterwards. For me, I can usually tell by stretching and twisting my hand in the supination or pronation direction. If my limit of motion is reduced or if it hurts and my strength is reduced in these directions, it’s a sure sign that I went to heavy the earlier session and I’ll need to back off and rest. It can take up to 3-4 weeks before my wrist is 100% recovered from that. And of course, you can’t progress if you need to take 3-4 week breaks inbetween sessions. Because of that, I try to stay just under my max and leave just a little in the tank left. But that only apply for exercises such as hammer deadlifts etc. any exercise that strain your wrist hard. For exercises that stress the muscles, like the one I linked above, I can go to failure 10 sets in a row with no problems. But those exercises are relatively kind to the wrists. I use them a lot on light days. Gives my wrists extra time to recover. As for what rep range, I usually try to stay in 3-6 reps. If I go above that, I increase weight. If I go for fewer reps, like a single, then it’s usually cuz I’m shooting for a PR and it’s a PR lift and not really a “training lift”.

Edited by David_wigren
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Solid post! cant wait to try out that exercise you linked. im not a fan of levering to the face. personally it just doesnt feel right to me. although its similar, the movement is different.

congrats mate and thanks for sharing!

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What strategies have you used successfully and unsuccessfully to overcome a plateau in bending, both braced an unbraced styles?

How do or did( I am kind of new here and only heard your legend) you structure your bending workouts and progression?

Thank you for taking the time to be in the well. You and all those who have went before you have done a great service for gripsport and the community here. Thanks again.

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How much volume you use in your braced bending? Just a few bars a week and rest is assistance work or do you bend tons of steel in every training session. Or perhaps something between extremes?

Thank you for doing this. Funny coincidence that one of best braced benders is in grip well when i am thinking to try braced bending.

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Hello David, Im excited to see you in the well thanks for takin out the time to do this.

You've shown yourself to be one of the most well rounded steel benders around, what suggestions would you have for a person aspiring to do the same? What was youre bending rotation like? How do you schedule the different forms of steel bending; frequency of reverse vs DO and DU? Do you practice braced and unbraced bending simultaneously or in seperate cycles?

Youre wrist strength is off the charts, what helped you most, sledges or bending? Youve been working your wrists very intensely for many years, what has helped you keep them healthy?

Thank you very much David.

Hello Jose and thank you for the kind words! I’ve tried different setups during the years. I typically don’t practice more than three different bending events in a single workout. Mixing braced and unbraced was not a problem. Most of the times I would start with DO and then either move on to reverse or DU and then move on to a braced event and spend about 20-30 minutes on each event.

I’ve also gone through periods where I’ve only specialized on one or two things and all my energy was spent on that one event. If you do horseshoe crushdown work for two hours, you’re not gonna have the hands, the wrists, or the will left to reverse anything beyond the strength of a pencil. This doesn’t give you a very well rounded strength but it will help your particular event immensely. Over time, after years of going through different periods of specializing on each of the different events, you’ll be able to do maintenance work and easily be strong in all of the events at the same time.

I’m convinced that sledge levering is superior for building wrist strength. Steel bending will build strong wrists over time, but nothing hits them as directly as sledge levering. Which is why I think that levering is a good compliment even to very advanced steel benders, and not just beginners.

I believe that the best advice for keeping your wrists healthy is knowing when to back off! Learn to separate “good pain” from “bad pain”. If your limit of motion gets reduced or your wrists get weaker and achy the next day, you need to back off! And remember that you don’t have to go heavy all the time! Lifting easy weights for explosive reps can be great, and doesn’t stress the joints so hard. Also from time to time I’ve been doing swings or “juggling” exercises with light sledges. Works the hands and muscles hard, and gives opportunity to hit all the weird angles that you never really hit otherwise.

Also most of us have very poor flexibility in our wrists just from having us abuse them so hard for so many years. Having good range of motion is a good sign of a healthy joint. Stretching the wrists in all the directions will aid in keeping the wrists healthy. A proper diet will help. I don’t take any supplements but I try to eat a healthy varied diet with lots of vegetables, fish and chicken. I try to stay away from processed food. But at the same time I like enjoying life so I’m never too strict about what I eat. I just keep those as general guidelines that I try to follow. I’d like to say that I get a lot of sleep, but that usually never happens lol. I definitely feel stronger and recover much better when I sleep 8-9 h a night. But really most of the times I stay between 6-7 h, unfortunately.

SOLID thread. IN!

Thank you brother!

What exercises carry over to reverse bending?

Plate curls, sledging, etc?

What's best for pure wrist strength for reversing??

Thanks david!

I believe that the traditional lever down to the face is best for developing wrist strength that you use for reverse bending. Hammer deadlifts are also good, but face levers are #1 if you ask me. Plate curls doesn’t transfer very well to steel bending IMO. Wrist flexion is hardly used at all in steel bending, but it’s used a lot in plate pinching, thick bar, and armwrestling.

Yay. Hey David!

Questions:

What is your thoughts about Heslep Style in Bending?

What is your thoughts about Barehanded bending (as in no protection). Looks crazy of course.

Thanks and great job representing Örebro :D Hehe fantastic.

/ Tobias

Hello Tobias my friend! The argument for Heslep style bending when it first came out was that it was a pure wrist style. It does work the supination hard. But I’ve heard that it can mess with some peoples elbows. I dabbled a little with it a few years back, but never really went anywhere with it.

Barehand bending is cool. It’s good for testing wrist, mental strength, skin strength, and lack of intelligence lol. You have to be a stubborn strong thick handed idiot to try anything like that lol. It’s not as dangerous as people think. I’ve only ever seen a few cuts and injuries due to barehand bending, and those were from some very intense people who had an unusual capacity to go beyond their current limits, guys like Andy Thomas and EJ Livesey.

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Solid post! cant wait to try out that exercise you linked. im not a fan of levering to the face. personally it just doesnt feel right to me. although its similar, the movement is different.

congrats mate and thanks for sharing!

Yeah it's a great exercise, especially if you're still suffering from an injury that makes particular movements difficult. The exercise you talked about with the towel over the knuckles (I think that's what you mentioned) is a great exercise for the radial muscles, and you've probably seen some armwrestlers do that exercise. I've used it in the past and it's a good exercise!

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Cheers David!

One last question or two.

What was the best level you could get on the wrist developer on orange, Crom spring etc?

Also, what how much carryover is there from the wrist developer to actual reversing steel as I am focusing more on the WD at the moment instead of actual steel.

Thanks dewd!!

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on a bit of a side note David, i suppose anybody can get strong on actual grippers, now , i have no clue about steel bending. so , my point is, if a man is born with skinny wrists, like me, is there then a limit to how far i can progress on bending? or even sledgehammers?? leverage i mean. sorry if i seem to be a bit behind in these topics. thanks David.

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Awesome! David Wigren is in the Grip Well!!!

I have a few questions about horseshoe bending specifically: Did you have anything specific that you did to condition your obliques for horseshoe bending, and if so, could you elaborate? What are your recommendations for progressing to harder shoes?

I know that when bending shoes that different sizes require slight technique tweaks, so exactly how much difference does the size # of the shoe make when training to bend it? Also, what did a typical horseshoe bending session look like for you?

Thanks again for doing this!

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Thank you for your responses David! Idk how many people know this but you're ripped! What does your training look like? How do you line up your general strength/fitness movements along with grip/bending?

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Hey Wiggy. Most people here missed the Golden Age of Steelbenders. First I'd like to say thank you. When I was a new bender, you were especially helpful and open with all your knowledge and advice. It meant a lot to find a group of guys willing to share their secrets.

You took your bending to the top level in each discipline. I know you worked patiently and consistently for years. I was wondering how much the competitive aspect played a part in your drive to excel. Without the camaraderie and competition of steelbenders, do you think you would have been pushed enough to reach the heights you have? What drives you now?

Thanks dooode.

Edited by Mike Sharkey
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What strategies have you used successfully and unsuccessfully to overcome a plateau in bending, both braced an unbraced styles?

How do or did( I am kind of new here and only heard your legend) you structure your bending workouts and progression?

Thank you for taking the time to be in the well. You and all those who have went before you have done a great service for gripsport and the community here. Thanks again.

As I’ve mentioned earlier isometrics have been one of the major pillars of foundation in my training. Stubbornly working on immovable bars or horseshoes over and over for months with no visible progress. It’s tedious and very unforgiving. But when it’s time to reap the rewards after a few months, it’s PR heaven lol! I specifically remember that I was working on the SSP #5 10x22 back in the winter of 2009-2010. I could kink them relatively easy but always got stuck in the 90-120 degree area. I got so tired of it. It was around that time I adopted the “Milfeld-technique” with bent arms, bouncing on the shoe with the core and wrists. Before that I would crush the shoes by pressing down on the shoe with straight arms. As I was slowly getting familiar with the new crushdown technique, from that point all I did was crushdown hits on those failed horseshoes. They weren’t really isometrics in the true sense since I was doing those bouncing crushdown hits of the “Milfeld-technique”. But it’s very similar to isometric in the sense that they helped me develop strength in that very specific position and it was also key in dialing my technique making it perfect. I used to feel the shoe wobbling on my leg and I struggled to keep it balanced. But after all that work, the shoe was like glued to my leg, with perfect balance, so during the hit no force was “spilled” by having the shoe wobble around. Every single lbs of force went right into the shoe. I did that for 2-3 months with absolutely no movement until one day they started to move. One evening after that, I was able to finish all the old failed attempts by crushing them one after another. It was one of the absolutely most rewarding moments of my entire life!

One mistake I think I did was not fully utilizing big wraps in my training. While I still think it’s best for beginners to stick with IMPs or wraps of similar size to build hand toughness and technique. I’m now absolutely convinced that big wraps do have a place, especially in DO bending. I think my DO bending was not what it could have been had I not been co close minded about doing 95% of my training in IMPs.

How much volume you use in your braced bending? Just a few bars a week and rest is assistance work or do you bend tons of steel in every training session. Or perhaps something between extremes?

Thank you for doing this. Funny coincidence that one of best braced benders is in grip well when i am thinking to try braced bending.

For braced bending I tend to use much higher volume for horseshoes than I do for bar bends. Whereas most of my work on horseshoes was done with isometrics, for long and medium length bars I generally don’t like to do heavy isos. I’m sure they’re good, but they just hit me so hard I just feel that the risk for injury is to great. If you look closely on my kinking technique (I might post a picture of how I grab the end of the bar), I would do my kink on medium to long bars with a bent wrist over the end of the bar (artificially making the bar a little longer and also making so the angle of the force is guided inwards like the strings on a longbow making the bar “collapse”). With this handle position I think there is risk of a biceps tear if you do too much kink isometrics. I would always stretch my biceps before a braced bar bend to reduce any risk of injury. So I would try my best to do full bends on long bars. Of course a failed bend can’t always be helped. But I would always save those for the future when I would be strong enough to bend them completely. Come to think of it I do remember doing some very light isos. But where you typically go with 90-100% during an iso, I would rarely go beyond 70-80% effort during an isometric on a long bar.

So in a typical week I would brace bend 2-3 times. Go for one long bar bend in each session, one or two medium length bars and maybe end or start with some light isos.

For assistance work I would do regular lifting in the gym. Deadlifts, cleans and exercises that strengthen the core. Heavy dips are great for triceps strength used in the kink. Sledgehammer deadlifts help build strength for the wrist in the crushdown position, if you’re like me and use A LOT of wrist in the crushdown.

Great to see you here David!

Reading and learning!

Hello my Bob my friend! I’ve been keeping track of your work on the WD and grip. You’re starting to become a monster my friend!

Cheers David!

One last question or two.

What was the best level you could get on the wrist developer on orange, Crom spring etc?

Also, what how much carryover is there from the wrist developer to actual reversing steel as I am focusing more on the WD at the moment instead of actual steel.

Thanks dewd!!

On the WD2 I could do reps with the orange spring on max setting. With the wasp spring I could do singles on level 12, and came painfully close to level 13 so many times it was sad! For me there is a lot of carry over between the WD and reverse bending. But that’s not quite what I see in others. I think the original WD1 from 2007 might actually be better since it was angled a little differently so it hit your wrists more. Though the design were worse, the work on the wrist was better IMO. With the new WD2 you can get away with using a lot of pushing and pulling. You couldn’t do that with the original design from 2007. It’s unfortunate that the old one isn’t available anymore. I think the WD2 does a good job if you wrap it all the way down so the end of the wrap is flush or almost flush with the steel on the WD2. I think using it like that will benefit your wrists for reverse bending.

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Thanks for doing this Wigren!

First off, never forget the help you gave with my horseshoe and reverse bending journey. Thank You.

1) I'm working the sledges pretty hard right now, do you believe plate curls should be involved to have the wrist as strong as possible?

2)Working for a strong sledge dead do you believe both holds and reps are needed to be at your strongest?

3)what are the numbers that represent a respectable sledge Dead,oh lever,reverse dead?

Again,Thanks for your time Mr Wigren

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1. What do you focus on now and what are your grip goals for the future?

2. Do you lose alot of strength and muscle when you lean down and get ripped?

3. What are your best tips for losing phat? I gain so easily. If I eat moderatly wrong for a month I can gain 2-3kg :S

Luckily I lose it rather easy if I cut out the sugar totally. I never really see my abs tho. When I start to see abs I feel so weak and thin and that scares me and I start to eat more to not lose any more strength.

Strength is way more important than abs but it would be cool to have both.

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David,

I recall you injured an abdominal muscle pretty seriously a few years back bending horseshoes, I believe.

Could you tell us about that injury, what you believe caused it, and how we as benders could prevent it from happening to us?

Thank you.

Jedd

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on a bit of a side note David, i suppose anybody can get strong on actual grippers, now , i have no clue about steel bending. so , my point is, if a man is born with skinny wrists, like me, is there then a limit to how far i can progress on bending? or even sledgehammers?? leverage i mean. sorry if i seem to be a bit behind in these topics. thanks David.

No problem Dave! I’m not one of those who deny that genetics play an important role in how far you’ll be able to reach. But I also don’t think you can “judge a book by its cover”. Strength is about so much more than just how big your hands are or how strong your structure is. My wrists are 17.5cm around, which is just below 7”, which is pretty average compared to a normal person but very skinny compared to most strong grip guys! Yet I’ve been able to take it pretty far in spite of my frail wrist structure and I’m still progressing and getting stronger.

Sure 9 times out of 10 a big guy with a strong structure is going to win at the end of the day. But with patience and a lot of hard work the small guy can win that 1 time out of 10.

Awesome! David Wigren is in the Grip Well!!!

I have a few questions about horseshoe bending specifically: Did you have anything specific that you did to condition your obliques for horseshoe bending, and if so, could you elaborate? What are your recommendations for progressing to harder shoes?

I know that when bending shoes that different sizes require slight technique tweaks, so exactly how much difference does the size # of the shoe make when training to bend it? Also, what did a typical horseshoe bending session look like for you?

Thanks again for doing this!

Hello brother! I actually did not do much for my obliques. I did do an exercise which is in the Hammering horseshoes DVD from Jedd, where you grab a sledgehammer or a barbell with both your hands by the end of it, holding it like you would during the horseshoe kink with the weight in front of you. Push down with one arm and pull with the other, just like you would during a horseshoe kink. This way you can do a few warm up sets for your obliques before you start your horseshoe bend. Other than that I did not do anything to condition my obliques.

The different sized shoes comes with different challenges. The smaller shoes I like to grab deep down and really work it with my wrists. I wrap them deep so that 3/4 of the wrap width is on the steel, maybe even a tad deeper. I dig in deep so that my hands are pushing up against each other during the kink. Big shoes are different. For me the struggle with big shoes was always trying to keep the “U” from turning in your hand. I would wrap the shoes a bit more shallow (between ½ and ¾ of the wrap width) so that the wrap will hang over the ends of the legs a bit. It doesn’t do much, but it does help keep it from turning a bit.

A typical session might be me warming up. Doing something to warm up my core, my triceps and my shoulders. I’ll do some light kink isos where I slowly ramp up the intensity. For example I’ll do a kink iso with aprox 30% effort, rest for a bit and then do one at 50% effort, rest a bit and then do a few hits at 70% and 80%. Then I’m pretty much ready to go. If I feel strong that day I’ll go for a PR. I’ll make an attempt on a particular shoe. Either I make it or I’ll fail. After that I might make another attempt. After that I’ll hit some isos working on either the kink or the crushdown (never really needed any work on my sweep after I got good with the Milfeld technique). If my leg is sore, I’ll do kink isos for 10-30 minutes, if my leg fells up for it I’ll do some crushdown work. During the isos I’ll often play around with how I position the shoe. This way I’ll figure out what might work better for small shoes or big shoes.

Thank you for your responses David! Idk how many people know this but you're ripped! What does your training look like? How do you line up your general strength/fitness movements along with grip/bending?

It's good to talk with you Jose! I try to keep a clean diet and restrict calories when I want to drop weight. When the weather permits it I like to run and stay active. When it comes to my strength training I’m currently focusing on weighted pullups, strict press, dips, power snatch, deadlifts, and core strength. I also throw in a lot of complimentary work for the opposing muscles to try and prevent muscle imbalances. In particular I try to work on my rear delts since I’ve noticed that I’m starting to get a slight forward rotation in my shoulder joints. I have 3 days a week when I’m at the gym. And 3 days a week when I’m in my storage facility working grip and some steel bending. When I’m doing press work in the gym I sometimes bring my grippers to do some grip closes inbetween sets. I also finish a lot of my workouts at the gym doing rep work with two handed plate wrist curls with a 15 kg plate, sometimes a 20kg plate if I’m feeling strong.

In the basement for my grip specific days I most often start with a few sets of grippers. Currently I’m stuck in a plateau for my grippers. I’m attributing this to my weight loss and the fact that I’ve recently added pinch and thickbar work along with the sledge work and plate curls I’m already doing. So right now I’m trying to work hard so that I don’t lose any gripper strength and stay motivated by switching up my work on the grippers. Right now I’m doing 5 sets with a gripper I can do 1-5 reps with a 20mm block. My goal each session is to improve the total number or reps within these 5 sets. Nothing super exciting but it’s working for me right now. After the gripper work I’ll move on to plate curls where I do rep work on one of my 15 kg plates. I try to do all the reps for the first 2-3 sets as strict as I can. If I do any more sets after that I’m usually less stringent on the strictness. After that I’ll move on to pinch work and/or thickbar work. I’m still a student on those so I’m not going to get to deep into that. I’m experimenting on high rep work on the thick bar as I’ve heard is supposed to work well for that lift. At the end I’ll do my sledge work, when my wrists and grip is fully warmed up. I might be a bit fatigued at this point, but I’ve noticed that it doesn’t effect my performance a lot. I’ve also had an entire session to get a feel for how my wrists is feeling. If my wrists hurts, I’ll do light dynamic work on the sledges. If my wrists feels solid, I’ll shoot for some heavier work.

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Thanks again for taking the time to write all those replies, must have taken ages..

Glad you like that exercise I mentioned for the wrists. You could also do it to work sup / pro aswell.

I've noticed that I can train it often, and to failure and make good gains pretty fast as the movement isn't particularly hard on the joint.

This may sound like a stupid question.. But how do you lever a sledge to the face properly? When I see videos on YouTube it looks like someone takes a very tight grip on the handle, but they have the write flexibility to actually lever it towards their face.

When I try it, it feels as though my wrists don't quote have enough flexibility, and I have to loosen up my grip with the last two fingers to get enough ROM to lever it back far enough.

Hope that made sense.. Not sure if other peoe are having the same trouble or if I'm just over thinking it..

Any feedback is appreciated as always.

Alex.

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