Juha Harju Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2014/Oct/Ari_Siltaoja_Breaks_IronMind_Hub_World_Record.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Because of the nature of a multi venue contest, Ari had updated the hub record by 0.5lb/0.25kg approximately 8 hours before John bumped it up by 11lbs/5kg. This article and post raises more questions than it answers. Does this invalidate John's record from the IM books? Or were you merely able to get to Randy about this lift first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Or is there some difference between King Kong's rules and Ironmind rules that would make John's lift good for the contest but not for Ironmind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I think Ironmind reviews these lifts by their own standards before making them official. Does John's lift meet these standards? Im not the right guy to answer that.Only thing I am sure my only real goal in the King Kong contest was to break the WR and do it so that nobody cant give real critique about it. That means straight fingers to the plate and full lock out.I dont want to take anything away from John. He is super strong dude when it comes to hub-lifting! I am only lifting and letting the judges and refs do their job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I think this video clarifies my point:http://youtu.be/zmYpoqwXOZw Edited October 28, 2014 by Mr milk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Or is there some difference between King Kong's rules and Ironmind rules that would make John's lift good for the contest but not for Ironmind? There are numerous differences. One of the biggest is that the IM rules specifically disallow gripping it like a door knob whereas you can do that with the rules below and still be in compliance. John did this, was in compliance with the rules below, and was awarded a good lift. King Kong Rules "Only the Hub is to be grasped. To keep this lift within the spirit of the Hub Lift (proper ‘claw’ style), only the fingertips of the thumb, index and middle fingers are to grasp the Hub. The three fingertips must start in contact with the rim of the hub. The fingertips are the distal phalanges. The other two fingers may oppose, or not be on at all. These are the fingers that grasp slightly slanted. The devise will need to start level and once left the ground as level as possible (within 20 degrees of horizontal), excessive tilting will not be allowed. In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub. The device must be lifted to lock-out, which will be demonstrated by complete extension and a finished lift. Part of this is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. Athletes must await the referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with hub. The free hand may NOT be used to brace against the opposing leg." IM Rules 1) The IronMind Hub must be an authentic IronMind Enterprises, Inc. Hub; it cannot have been modified or tampered with in any way. 2) Chalk (magnesium carbonate) can be used on the gripping hand, but nothing else is permitted (tacky, for example, is specifically disallowed). 3) Weight is hung from the Hub with an Olympic-sized loading pin that is clipped to the underside of the Hub with a carabiner (generally, IronMind's loading pin and carabiner are used, although substitutions are allowed). 4) The lifter starts the lift with all 5 fingertips of the lifting hand touching the plate at the base of the Hub. It is permissible that the fingers rotate somewhat from this position during the course of the lift, but holding the Hub as if grabbing a doorknob is not allowed. 5) The lifter must stand up straight; once standing straight the lifter waits for a down signal from the referee before returning the weight to the ground. Contact must be maintained by the lifter's hand and the Hub until the weight is resting on the floor. The referee then indicates if the lift was accepted. 6) In contest situations, we give the lifter 1 minute to complete the lift after his/her name is called; during that minute, there is no limit to how many times the lifter may try to complete the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Andrade Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 i think its more about the down call than the lifting technique. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Or is there some difference between King Kong's rules and Ironmind rules that would make John's lift good for the contest but not for Ironmind? There are numerous differences. One of the biggest is that the IM rules specifically disallow gripping it like a door knob whereas you can do that with the rules below and still be in compliance. John did this, was in compliance with the rules below, and was awarded a good lift. King Kong Rules "Only the Hub is to be grasped. To keep this lift within the spirit of the Hub Lift (proper ‘claw’ style), only the fingertips of the thumb, index and middle fingers are to grasp the Hub. The three fingertips must start in contact with the rim of the hub. The fingertips are the distal phalanges. The other two fingers may oppose, or not be on at all. These are the fingers that grasp slightly slanted. The devise will need to start level and once left the ground as level as possible (within 20 degrees of horizontal), excessive tilting will not be allowed. In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub. The device must be lifted to lock-out, which will be demonstrated by complete extension and a finished lift. Part of this is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. Athletes must await the referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with hub. The free hand may NOT be used to brace against the opposing leg." Josh, I don't see anything in the King Kong rules that would mean you can grip like a door knob. To me, the door knob style is the vertical lift style. I used to see guys with a variation on that theme by grasping the hub with their index finger upside down wrapped around the base of the hub, along with the thumb wrapped around as well. The Pradyis fellows, father and son, I think could pull 100 lbs. using that method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Or is there some difference between King Kong's rules and Ironmind rules that would make John's lift good for the contest but not for Ironmind? There are numerous differences. One of the biggest is that the IM rules specifically disallow gripping it like a door knob whereas you can do that with the rules below and still be in compliance. John did this, was in compliance with the rules below, and was awarded a good lift. King Kong Rules "Only the Hub is to be grasped. To keep this lift within the spirit of the Hub Lift (proper ‘claw’ style), only the fingertips of the thumb, index and middle fingers are to grasp the Hub. The three fingertips must start in contact with the rim of the hub. The fingertips are the distal phalanges. The other two fingers may oppose, or not be on at all. These are the fingers that grasp slightly slanted. The devise will need to start level and once left the ground as level as possible (within 20 degrees of horizontal), excessive tilting will not be allowed. In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub. The device must be lifted to lock-out, which will be demonstrated by complete extension and a finished lift. Part of this is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. Athletes must await the referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with hub. The free hand may NOT be used to brace against the opposing leg." Josh, I don't see anything in the King Kong rules that would mean you can grip like a door knob. To me, the door knob style is the vertical lift style. I used to see guys with a variation on that theme by grasping the hub with their index finger upside down wrapped around the base of the hub, along with the thumb wrapped around as well. The Pradyis fellows, father and son, I think could pull 100 lbs. using that method. John just needs to post a video (I responded in the other thread). You can angle your index and middle fingers, still leave the distal phlanges touching the rim, and get quite a bite...even more if you can get your thumb on there like John; I can't and still be within the rules. IMO this is a doorknob pressure. It's not the obnoxious vbar grip that we call a hub lift but not a strict claw either. You just need to watch him while checking the rules and you'll see. I can assure you Luke scrutinized his hand position before every attempt and he was legal within the KK rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I posted this in another thread but this covers my lifting abilities on the hub. This is where I learned to model my style of hub lifting: http://youtu.be/lK58H203G0Q?list=UUzHI0hNhz4EuTfbrK9ILpdQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Or is there some difference between King Kong's rules and Ironmind rules that would make John's lift good for the contest but not for Ironmind?There are numerous differences. One of the biggest is that the IM rules specifically disallow gripping it like a door knob whereas you can do that with the rules below and still be in compliance. John did this, was in compliance with the rules below, and was awarded a good lift. King Kong Rules "Only the Hub is to be grasped. To keep this lift within the wspirit of the Hub Lift (proper ‘claw’ style), only the fingertips of the thumb, index and middle fingers are to grasp the Hub. The three fingertips must start in contact with the rim of the hub. The fingertips are the distal phalanges. The other two fingers may oppose, or not be on at all. These are the fingers that grasp slightly slanted. The devise will need to start level and once left the ground as level as possible (within 20 degrees of horizontal), excessive tilting will not be allowed. In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub. The device must be lifted to lock-out, which will be demonstrated by complete extension and a finished lift. Part of this is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. Athletes must await the referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with hub. The free hand may NOT be used to brace against the opposing leg." IM Rules 1) The IronMind Hub must be an authentic IronMind Enterprises, Inc. Hub; it cannot have been modified or tampered with in any way. 2) Chalk (magnesium carbonate) can be used on the gripping hand, but nothing else is permitted (tacky, for example, is specifically disallowed). 3) Weight is hung from the Hub with an Olympic-sized loading pin that is clipped to the underside of the Hub with a carabiner (generally, IronMind's loading pin and carabiner are used, although substitutions are allowed). 4) The lifter starts the lift with all 5 fingertips of the lifting hand touching the plate at the base of the Hub. It is permissible that the fingers rotate somewhat from this position during the course of the lift, but holding the Hub as if grabbing a doorknob is not allowed. 5) The lifter must stand up straight; once standing straight the lifter waits for a down signal from the referee before returning the weight to the ground. Contact must be maintained by the lifter's hand and the Hub until the weight is resting on the floor. The referee then indicates if the lift was accepted. 6) In contest situations, we give the lifter 1 minute to complete the lift after his/her name is called; during that minute, there is no limit to how many times the lifter may try to complete the lift. Please don't call this technique a doorknob lift, you're confusing people. A doorknob lift is what IM calls the v bar technique. You can lift a vbar in this manner, but not in the way that John lifts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 John's technique looks good to me. He just angles his fingers before blastoff. One should be able to hub a plate like that no problem. I think the only thing really in question is the pause at the top. Either way these are technical details. Clearly his hubbing is world class and if the record isn't his at this contest, it will be shortly. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 John's technique looks good to me. He just angles his fingers before blastoff. One should be able to hub a plate like that no problem. I think the only thing really in question is the pause at the top. Either way these are technical details. Clearly his hubbing is world class and if the record isn't his at this contest, it will be shortly. I feel like I have to write something because the thread is about me I don't say anything about the fingers ( I don't know how IM reviews them) but I have to ask you all a question. Is it OK to drop the hub down before the referee gives the signal "DOWN"? If we have rules in these contest we should follow them. That's the only thing I have to say about John's lift (besides that it is tremendous weight that he handles there) and sure there is plenty of "hubsters" that can lift around 38kg. Still the contest situation is always contest situation. Also I did not get the best of me in the contest. You can watch the video that I posted earlier.. BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jörg Keilbach Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Congratulations Ari!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Congratulations Ari!!! Thank you! I have worked really hard to achieve something in sport of GRIP! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... What negative vibe? All I see is congratulations for your excellent performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... What negative vibe? All I see is congratulations for your excellent performance. Maybe I overreacted and get things wrong No problem My English is not the best and I may get things wrong if I read them fast.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Goguen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 All of the recent Hub rule changes and debates has me truly confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... What negative vibe? All I see is congratulations for your excellent performance. Maybe I overreacted and get things wrong No problem My English is not the best and I may get things wrong if I read them fast.. I think that the only negativity is confusion about the rules. that gets people much more worked up than big lifts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Harju Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... What negative vibe? All I see is congratulations for your excellent performance. Maybe I overreacted and get things wrong No problem My English is not the best and I may get things wrong if I read them fast.. I think that the only negativity is confusion about the rules. that gets people much more worked up than big lifts. I agree that. At next year we might have other species in place of IM hub and hope all will be easier than this year. Edited October 29, 2014 by Juha Harju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Harju Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I havent seen or heard anyone say anything negative about your lift. It was an awesome one. And with good form. And there is no way im pulling anywhere near that weight on the hub. Your lift is currently recognized as the world record. What more is needed? The KING's robe and crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Harju Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Ha! Whatever! :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 John's technique looks good to me. He just angles his fingers before blastoff. One should be able to hub a plate like that no problem. I think the only thing really in question is the pause at the top. Either way these are technical details. Clearly his hubbing is world class and if the record isn't his at this contest, it will be shortly. I feel like I have to write something because the thread is about me I don't say anything about the fingers ( I don't know how IM reviews them) but I have to ask you all a question. Is it OK to drop the hub down before the referee gives the signal "DOWN"? If we have rules in these contest we should follow them. That's the only thing I have to say about John's lift (besides that it is tremendous weight that he handles there) and sure there is plenty of "hubsters" that can lift around 38kg. Still the contest situation is always contest situation. Also I did not get the best of me in the contest. You can watch the video that I posted earlier.. BTW. I hate this negative vibe going on here when "rookies" achieve something.... No negativity was intended at all. I congratulate you on your excellent achievement. I believe people were just a bit surprised that IM had already recognized and published your lift as the WR before the dust had even settled. It was unknown if they disallowed John's heavier lift, and for what reason. Of course this is both the good and bad part of instant replay in baseball. Everyone is a Monday morning quarterback. Again, congratulations, and though there is obviously a bit of discussion, I think everyone involved is showing excellent sportsmanship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think it is OK to tell that even I told IM (via e-mail) that John has pulled more than me in that contest when I asked how long it takes to review these lifs. (Monday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Beritashvili Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think it is OK to tell that even I told IM (via e-mail) that John has pulled more than me in that contest "This is MAN shit" © EJ Livesey Big respect, Ari. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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