Jump to content

2014 Fit Expo Grip Contest Information


Hubgeezer

Recommended Posts

Sad to see this pass. I'm sure Mike is capable of this and more if he chooses to continue training it, just not on this particular day. Records mean nothing when judging is poor.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

I touched my axle for the first time in 6 months and failed myself on a 351 pound lift that was worlds better and more controlled than that. It's a pretty sad day when a fat weak Canadian in the middle of nowhere has stricter judging criteria for himself, in training no less than a judge who was chosen for an international competition with guys coming from all over the world, spending their money etc to have something like that pass for a world record, no less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought our double overhand did deadlift was supposed to be done on the iron mind axle for record purposes was this the case or is it just any 2 inch axle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to read all these comments—let me add a little context:

1) Watching the lift live, from the front and while taking pictures, I thought it was borderline—my concern was primarily whether Mike had beaten the down signal although it also would have been nice in a perfect world if he'd been able to return the barbell as gently as if he had been holding a carton of eggs

2) When Mike's lift was passed, he (Mike) was unhappy about it and asked to take it again—I think he wanted to demonstrate absolute mastery of the weight. Of course, a lifter can no more turn a "good lift" to "no lift," any more than s/he can take it in the opposite direction. Anyway, this reminded me of a story Dr. Ken once told me about how he'd had a snatch or clean & jerk passed but he was unhappy with his form so he wanted to take to over but Rudy Sablo would not let him because that was against the rules.

3) The video that Alexey took made the lift look like it really sucked and after watching it, several of us were about to protest, but then we watched not one, but two videos from the front and, interestingly, not only did the lift look a lot better, but you could see the referee's arm indicating the down signal, so now things were getting clearer.

4) This might be a good lesson in why having three referees is so common and this lift might well have been 2-1, and it might even have gone 1-2, but what's most interesting to me is that if it had been turned down, I'm sure that many of the same people (most of whom were not there) would be crabbing about how Mike Burke had been robbed of a good lift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My fellow grip (wo)men, do you remember this lift:

I ran into this after that organizer had assured me he understood the rules and would officiate according to them. Now, I'm not saying that this one video is the final word on what this lift actually looked like and I certainly would never point the finger at a lifter when a dubious lift is passed, but I'd say no matter how funky a one-video review can be, this one makes Mike's lift look pretty sweet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

The momentum of the bar did not stop for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second on Burkes lift nor were his hips locked out at any point without his knees being bent with a hitch and his body almost falling backwards. You can argue that "Well you weren't there to see it" but so what? Bad judging is bad judging and now that you see what the lift was how can you in good conscious give that lift to the record books?

Sure judging can be difficult but Randall you yourself have argued in the past that first hand judging is far more accurate than video accounts yet this proves otherwise - it is as plain as day in the video the lift should not have counted. Even following with the official Iron Mind Apollons Axle record rules taken straight from the Iron Mind website:

Apollon's Axle Double Overhand Deadlift Rules

1. A genuine IronMind Apollon's Axle must be used, along with full-sized plates (discs) that are the standard IWF/IPF diameter (450 mm).

2. The plates must either be calibrated or have been weighed on a proven scale.

3. Time starts when the Axle is loaded; the athletes have 30 seconds to begin the lift.

4. No grip aids other than chalk allowed.

5. The Axle must be gripped with the knuckles on both hands facing forward (away from the body) with a double overhand grip.

6. Thumbless and hook gips are prohibited.

7. Standard IPF powerlifting rules apply: resting the Axle on the thighs or any downward movement will disqualify the lift. A sumo style is permitted.

8. The athlete must await the referee's down signal before returning the Axle to the platform, all the while maintaining a grip on or contact with the Axle.

http://ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/Apollons_Axle.html

Wade Gillingham's brother is quite famous for his longevity in the Deadlift competing in the IPF and while I cannot speak for Mr. Karl Gillingham but I would bet a weeks salary that Karl along with any certified IPF judge would not pass that deadlift going by Standard IPF powerlifting rules.

I remember when Alexey broke the Rolling Thunder record and some people made a big deal about if the handle touched his hip or not on the way up yet while in Mark Felix's previous record lift the handle rode up his leg, so much so that his Union Jack trunks were riding up to show his compression shorts. No one even mentioned that, besides maybe myself - world class strongman gets the benefit of the doubt?

Once again, ones reputation as a World Class Strongman gets them the benefit of the doubt with the all mighty Iron Mind. Gotta love it when rules and standards only apply to the "mortal men" of the strength world.


All the respect to Mike Burke, it isn't his fault the judging was bad and even more respect to him for giving it a second go because I think he knew in his mind he didn't get it, not even close otherwise why would he try again?


As for Amys lift, I wouldn't pass it because of the tilt of the bar, but she controlled the weight for a second before putting it down and her hips and knees were straight locked at one time too - much more than can be said about the recent Mens record lift. I have chatted with her a few times and she is a wonderful woman, we both work in the same field as educators with special needs students but in the spirit of honesty and fair play I don't think that was a good lift either.

OB-UQ020_2cents_D_20120918141913.jpg

Edited by Squat More
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some pertinent rules copy and pasted from the IPF rulebook:


1. The lifter shall face the front of the platform with the bar laid horizontally in front of the lifters feet,

gripped with an optional grip in both hands and lifted until the lifter is standing erect.

2. On completion of the lift the knees shall be locked in a straight position and the shoulders back.

3. The Chief Referee’s signal shall consist of a downward movement of the arm and the audible command

“Down”. The signal will not be given until the bar is held motionless and the lifter is in the apparent

finished position.
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

how experienced was the judge?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The audible response, and subsequent hush, of the audience indicates they were a pretty educated bunch when it comes to judging proper deadlift form.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard the crowd too Eric

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahh, you guys are speculating so much it is starting to sound like Oliver Stone. The audience? They had no idea what to think because the judge had given it the "good lift" sign, but the organizers and other officials were so concerned the emcee kept his mouth shut. There was confusion, and dead air/silence, so the audience had no clue what they were supposed to do. If the emcee said "Good Lift! World Record!" They would have cheered.

If you saw the lift, you would say "that was good?" if you were looking at it from the front. If you were looking at it from the side, you would say "no lift". Apparently, if you saw it with the judge giving the down signal, you might say "good lift".

The down stroke was marginal, but technically legal. The height was definitely there. If I was the judge, the step backwards, presumably after the down signal, would have been my criteria for a red light. I don't think standing in front of the lifter I would have caught his lower back being a bit away from a lockout. Haugen, in an email to me, said if it was "Strongman" it was DEFINITELY (his emphasis, not mine) a good lift. Power lifting, no.

I thought after Alex's video, it was going to be DQ'd. If there no video at all, it would have simply stood because the judge called it. I did not see the 2nd and 3rd videos. Odd and Randy did. They seemed very confident after they saw those two. They were very skeptical based on the video posted here, which was the first one that four or five people (including me) saw.

The judge was a friend of Odd's who I have seen involved with all four LA contests, as well as the two San Jose contests to date. I don't know anything about him other than his first name is Mike. In general, I think he is a bit quick on the trigger on down signals, but there were a couple on Sunday that he DQd for which the lifter(s) thought were good

In the 49er Seahawk game two weeks ago, there were two blatant bad calls (roughing the kicker and N Bowman's fumble recovery) that were flat out wrong. Jim Harbaugh, a famous football hothead, did not lash out at anyone at any press conferences, interviews, etc. Millions of dollars at stake. The referees had spoken. It would have been interesting if Haugen and Randy, had the "Alex" video been the only one, decided to say "sorry judge, we are overriding you". Could they do that? What is the process? I think when they saw the videos, they decided it was something they could live with, and things went on from there.

And, yes, in most grip contests the judges are too quick on the trigger for my tastes in the Rolling Thunder and Axle lifts. Quite frankly, it is rampant. But the record is going to be broken again. I am not losing any sleep over this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

Still violates the rules posted on the Iron Mind website. Argue all you want, the proof is in the puddin'... or HTML in this case.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, perhaps the audio is out of sync with the visual, but my anecdotal quip about the crowd's reaction refers not only to the silence but to the sound of anticipation and excitement which instantly changes to an exclamation of "ooohhh", as in "ah darn he didn't make it", just as he begins lowering the bar short of lockout. I've heard this same reaction a thousand times at powerlifting meets over the years. It's the inevitable response to a perceived failed attempt. I don't think I'm guilty of too much conspiracy theory speculation here.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

If a review of Alexey's video was required for the judging on the Rolling Thunder record when the judge was deemed not enough, I think a video review of Burke's Axle record should follow the same course for the purpose of continuity and following suit, should be failed as it did not meet proper criteria.

Am I wrong here? Am I going to be told it is "not a big deal" because it "will be broken again"? If that is the case, has Iron Mind been hanging out with the organizers of the SPF?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My comments are not meant to be "official", just trying to report what I saw happen, and report details you will not see or hear any place else. If Jim Harbaugh can accept not going to the Super Bowl after some bad calls, I think someone not present at an event, with limited information, can stop _______.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was previously not aware that the axle deadlift rules follows the rules of the IPF. If so the lift should've been failed, no matter from what angle you saw it from. It is clear as day that the lift did not meet IPF regulation even from the front. The IPF rules contain a list of reasons to fail a lift.

According to the IPF rulebook (translated from Swedish)

Reasons to fail a deadlift:

1. Lowering of the bar before reaching top position ???

2. Lifter does not stand with retracted shoulders in the top position

3. Lifter does not stand with straight knees in the top position

4. Lifter shoots his knees under the bar

5. Foot shifting back or forward.

6. Lifter lowers the bar before the headjudge's signal ???

7. Lifter does not keep the grip of the bar during the lowering of the bar to the ground. ???

The lines in red are rules that were definitely broken during that lift. The rules with red question marks are rules that can't be judged from the video, but they were possibly broken as well.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

Iron Mind changed the rules for gripper certification because too many "regular" guys were getting their name on the list, the given "reason" was too many people were "cheating the feat" by doing a "half range of motion close on the grippers". Okay...


So how is approving this record when the lift obviously did not fit many of the Iron Mind rules for the Apollons axle not the same thing as someone parallel setting a gripper? At least the guys who would 1" set a #3 for certification got the handles to touch...

121-picard-facepalm-funny-demotivational

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The grip bored . . . confused again.



Here’s a tip: Squat more, type less and forget the html but consider apparent ESL . . . or is it DBD?


  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Squat More

At the end of the day Randall:

Burke's lift would not pass muster in a IPF meet, any IPF judge who saw that would FAIL it, it wouldn't matter if they saw it from the front or the rear or the side - it wouldn't pass.

The Iron Mind website itself claims IPF rules apply to the deadlift, in black and white for you and ALL others to see. That pull did not meet them, plain and simple.

Eric Milfeld has probably been to more IPF sanctioned powerlifting meets than anyone on this forum and he himself says it wouldn't, and shouldn't have passed. Terrible judging.

Once again your personal friendships with Strongmen and you almost seemingly homoerotic obsession with giant men clouds your better judgement on something that should be an easy "He didn't get it, after reviewing video the judges decision should be over turned". Why? You required video and a review of Alexey's rolling thunder record as you posted yourself on the Iron Mind forums, the judges call was not enough for you in that case - the same should be done for Burke's record, video review should be conducted and I don't see how anyone in their right mind could pass it upon review of that video.


This just further proves how utterly full of shit you are. I would be more respectful in my posts but over the years I have seen posts from you, you come off as a weak old man who thinks he is strong by association who feels the need to call men stronger than yourself weak because they don't kow-tow. All you are is someone who owns a company that produces quality equipment, nothing more - why you or anyone else thinks your opinion matters more than the men who actually train to be stronger is beyond me.

Also your constant BS arguments like "hand size doesn't matter, you're either strong enough or you aren't" is a joke. For someone with a PhD in sports performance psychology, you had to have passed high school and by passing high school I would think you had to take some basic science classes where things like... I don't know, leverage were discussed? Hand size doesn't matter in a sport where hands and their strength are the focus? Of course hand size matters, that's like saying the strength of muscles and the central nervous system does not matter in strength training. The other people who agree with you on this stance are usually huge mammoths with 8.5" hands or larger.

After this farce I would find it hilarious for anyone to take an Iron Mind record seriously again. Allowing your personal friendship with Odd and the guy he chose to judge pass this "record lift" and allow it to stand not only sullies the Apollons axle record but also the reputation of your company as a whole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apollon's Axle Double Overhand Deadlift Rules

1. A genuine IronMind Apollon's Axle must be used, along with full-sized plates (discs) that are the standard IWF/IPF diameter (450 mm).

2. The plates must either be calibrated or have been weighed on a proven scale.

3. Time starts when the Axle is loaded; the athletes have 30 seconds to begin the lift.

4. No grip aids other than chalk allowed.

5. The Axle must be gripped with the knuckles on both hands facing forward (away from the body) with a double overhand grip.

6. Thumbless and hook gips are prohibited.

7. Standard IPF powerlifting rules apply: resting the Axle on the thighs or any downward movement will disqualify the lift. A sumo style is permitted.

8. The athlete must await the referee's down signal before returning the Axle to the platform, all the while maintaining a grip on or contact with the Axle.

As for Amys lift, I wouldn't pass it because of the tilt of the bar, but she controlled the weight for a second before putting it down and her hips and knees were straight locked at one time too - much more than can be said about the recent Mens record lift. I have chatted with her a few times and she is a wonderful woman, we both work in the same field as educators with special needs students but in the spirit of honesty and fair play I don't think that was a good lift either.

Getting my lift thrown under the bus by Dr. Strossen was truly a highlight of my day and made me laugh a little. At the time of my lift Ironmind wasn't recognizing women's lifts on this event. So he got to ignore or accept my lift. He chose to ignore it and wait until the lift was done under better conditions in San Jose for Ironmind to accept it. I was fine with that because the next time I did it, it was heavier and without question. I do believe the lift before my questionable one in the vid would have been a North American Grip Sport world record and maybe tied Elizabeth's record at that time. i cannot remember if hers was on an IM axle.

Now thank you very much for the nice words. I have had previous conversations about this phantom uneven bar rule with people well versed in powerlifting and once again reviewed the rule book today. Other than thinking the bar should be straight, please someone reference this phantom rule in actual writing, not interpretation. During the entire lift the bar was uneven, it was not because one end descended during the lift. I would be open to discussions on a questionable lockout but my lockout was in direct response to a down signal. Regardless, it's old news. Now if I had it my way, simply based on an ugly hairdo and DL barefoot inside I would have DQ'd it. DL barefoot outside in parking lots is just fine in strongman, inside is poor taste. It was summer, I was wearing flip flops and didn't bring socks along or obviously a hair brush. Next time I will.

Edited by Amy
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was this the video taken by Alexey?

I dont know who filmed it but I got it from Alexey.

Alexey had taken a video, I think that was his, as his did not have the judge in the video. There were two other ones, neither of which I saw, that I was told showed the lift from different angles, including the judge. The lift apparently looked better in those than the one here.

Did the lift look like it was under control? I don't see how that is possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We will quickly close any thread when it degrades into personal attacks.

If anyone wants to personally take shots at each other, do it off these forums via personal email or whatever. Not on the GripBoard.

Thanks everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.