Bill Piche Posted November 20, 2001 Share Posted November 20, 2001 I believe this idea has actually been discussed in the past. To train "beyond the range" with a gripper, file down one side of the inside of the handle so it closes up "tighter". Joe did this. But, never mentioned it on the video. He probably did it in combo with grip tip #2 which will follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 Have wondered before why makers of grip machines do not make the 'receiving' non-moving handle 'female' so that the male handle can be squeezed farther. The same concept could be used in the gripper handles, male/female for greater range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted November 21, 2001 Author Share Posted November 21, 2001 The gripanator will have the option for "beyond the range" handles. I will be getting that option for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 WannaGrip, He didn't mention it in the video, because I believe that he wanted to sell THE MACHINE he had which had the top handle filed down so that it closed up tighter. To do this to a gripper (which I don't recommend) doesn't make any sense IMHO. You CAN do it - but I think you're just ruining a gripper. "Training beyond the range" denotes STARTING from a closed position (on the machine) then using your hand strength to maintain that position (negatives). I may be wrong on this...... but, I take the "training beyond the range" differently than you do. In my sense, it means getting your hand used to a pressure it has never felt before. You could squeeze and squeeze a #3, but until those handles COMPLETELY TOUCH each other, your hand will never know what that pressure is - hence the SW. This is why Joe invented the machine. Up until then, there was nothing (save for the Hardy Handshake)that simulated that "pressure". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 I have to agree with Sybersnott that filing down the inside of your gripper handles will ruin the gripper. I speak from experience. I filed 1/8" off the inside of each handle of a #2 gripper. I found that at first, of course, it was harder to close, but after a few weeks (and about 50 closes) it seemed to get easier. I think this happened because the extra range of movement (1/4") over fatigued the spring. Just my experience. Maybe somebody else has had a different experience with this experiment than I have, but this is what happened to me. Steve Weiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted November 21, 2001 Author Share Posted November 21, 2001 Training beyond the range means your hand closes up tighter than the grippers. That's the definition Joe uses. Pressure is another part of the equation, but the closing your hand "tighter" is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarBender Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 I have had the same experience as 3Crusher. My #2 got easier a short time after filing down a significant amout off the inside handles. I prefer the BB-Master anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 I think I mentioned to 3crusher once my idea (that I've never implemented) of filing down the outside edge of the gripper. This is not as easy to implement as the inside edge, wherein all you have to file is the inside tip. I believe to properly implement my idea you would have to file the whole side of the outside edge. This would effectively make the gripper smaller in your hand at final closure, but would not actually change the range of motion. I honestly don't know if this would be worthwhile, but at least the spring would not fatigue, only the user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted November 21, 2001 Author Share Posted November 21, 2001 Given the range of the spring that is moved already, another 1/8" is going to "break it" seems illogical. What may happen is a new equilibrium point? Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 If you file the insides of the handles off you can close the handles closer together than the spring was designed for and it might bend much in the same fashion as when it was made. You are also dealing with metal fatigue. This is what happens when the gripper becomes seasoned. Now you grind the inside of the handles off. Increasing the range of motion and that extra range isn’t seasoned. Al these factors-range of motion (of the hand) new seasoning etc. will make the gripper harder to close initially. When the spring is fully seasoned again it will become easier but you might be bending the spring which even a small amount could ruin the gripper. Also the extra range will cause much more metal fatigue and this in the long run might cause the spring to break (bend a piece of wire one way now bend it back bend it back etc. continue and the wire will break). In my opinion filing down the inside isn’t a good idea but filing the outside though difficult might work. If you do this just make sure you don’t expose the spring because it might come loose and take your fingers off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted November 21, 2001 Author Share Posted November 21, 2001 The springs were not designed to be used for COC grippers. They were springs manufactured that happened to be used for COC's. Much more metal fatigue? Why? It's not like these things are specially manufactured. I guess none of what we learned to date seems be able to be applied to increasing the range but a mere 1/8". Here's what happens IMO. It probably reduces a bit with 1/8". Then equalizes to a new point. Like we discussed months ago, these springs were NEVER intended to be closed over than ROM they are now. Also, if you take a NEW gripper and file 1/8 off the inside, of course it is going to get weaker. Why? Because it was NEVER seasoned to begin with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 A spring bent from whatever material designed for whatever purpose and used in any situation has a certain range of motion that it will work effectively and successfully in. Exceed this rom and unpredictable things start to happen. What these are is anyone’s guess. Fatigue is possibly one of the problems that might explain why the modified grippers become a lot easier/weaker. On the other hand there might be absolutely nothing-adverse happening when you file the insides off. Only experimentation and time will tell. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 WannaGrip - I understood the "training beyond the range" part to be something much more different. Now I may watch that video again - I thought Joe was talking about getting stronger and BEING stronger than the close of the gripper you are trying to master. Also..... instead of FILING down a gripper (and changing it), why doesn't someone MAKE a gripper that has handles that sit flush with each other? Two flat parts coming together looks more impressive than two round ends pressing together! Get John from PDA on the phone NOW!! This sounds like a great idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kINGPIN Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 The range of motion is also affected when you file off the ends of the handles. Because as Snott said, the 2 ends come together, and because of this you have to take a fuller range of motion to be able to make them touch. Even if the spring does get fatiqued then the lack of leverage from the shorter handles may make up for it. Having said this, you lose your guarentee and a broken spring can be dangourous. And you can also make such a beutiful gripper look very ugly. Just some thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 Sybersnott, It’s not a bad idea, but I don’t think it’s possible with existing torsion springs. Maybe smaller handles would do the trick? BTW, I like that Avatar better than the old one. I guess you’re dancing now that you are a Captains of Crush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tou Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 I filed my #2 handles down at 3 inches. The gripper is a tough one but when I close it, the spring makes such a noise that I always think it is going to pop out of the handles. I have ruined this gripper and I'm going to get a new one. I will choose a PDA gripper, calibrated at 330 pounds. When I'll be doing strap holds with such a gripper, #3 will be pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 Tou, The modifications above are a little different than what you've done, they are filing the inside of the handles, which increases the range of motion more than shortening the handles. I think you've taken too much off, I've only cut 3/8" off mine, and probably won't go farther. My #2 that I originally modified was the strongest one I had so maybe that's why it seems very strong now. It is definitely the same as the Master, but with a different "feel" because of the shorter handle length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Reimer Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 I remember thinking once that if gripper handles were much, much longer, then the included angle could be much narrower, and you wouldn't have to work the springs as far beyond their intended range in order to give your hand its full range of motion. Of course, the downside if this is you'd have to get much stiffer springs to adjust for the longer handles. It's an interesting thought though. Picture a gripper with a total length of 8 or 9 inches, an included angle of 15-20 (?) degrees, and necessarily, a goliath spring. The handle spread would be the same, but the spring wouldn't work as far. With such a gripper the ends could easily be shaped for a tighter close without overtaxing the spring much more than before. As an added bonus, negatives would be easier too. Alas, but as I was saying, I doubt such a gripper would be feasible to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 86-1005097353 Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 My idea for a grip testing handle would be to use stainless steel and have two halves that when sqeezed together make a round bar. This could be done with 1 inch or 1 1/8 inch diameter bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Reimer Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 Vince, What about skin folds and fingertips becoming pinched in the crack formed between the two flat surfaces coming together along the whole length? And why stainless steel? Are you going to knurl it? Handles need razor sharp knurling! Otherwise you're measuring idiosyncracies such as skin adhesiveness, not pure crushing strength. Just curious here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 86-1005097353 Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 I am a gym owner and manufacturer. The reason the CoC's and other grippers have aluminium handles is because it is cheaper and easier to machine. Stainless steel would be preferable. I think having no knurling would be best. Stainless is a preferred material for all bars used in gyms. All the handles in my gym are stainless steel. Aluminium is also far softer than stainless and wears away quicker. I use aluminium only for chequered floor plates to stand on. The flat parts will have to be rounded off so that no sharp edges exist. I am not sure if skin will get pinched between the handles. At the moment using 3/4 inch handles the closest those grippers can get is 1 1/2 inches. So it is possible to improve on that if that is what is desired. I honestly believe those grippers are a pain. The only thing they are good for is the companies that make them. We in this sport have to evolve beyond home gym apparatus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Reimer Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 Vince, Okay, I'll grant you that stainless steel handles would be better than aluminum. But why do you think it would be better having no knurling? I'm having trouble imagining any good reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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