What Is The "secret Weapon?"

[Anthony C.]

Sorry if that question is ridiculous, but i am new and have searched and can't find out anything else about it except that at one point it was sold by gillingham. What is it and how can i get one???

[Cannon]

Here is one.

Invented by Joe Kinney, first man to certify on the #4.

It only has the negative range of motion. You lift the weight arm with your off hand, grip with the other, then let go and hold on for dear life.

[Cannon]

They are SUPER easy to rig up with a few spare parts from the hardware store.

The hardest thing to find is the round stock for the handles.

[CANCRUSHER]

There are other sellers i think.

Edited May 16, 2018 by CANCRUSHER

[Anthony C.]

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen. That thing looks awesome. I'm currently supplementing my gripper training with negatives on the beefbuilder grip machine...same concept i suppose?

Also gabe I was thinking about getting the ttk. I know you're a big advocate of dynamic pinch training. Does it take up a lot of room?

[CANCRUSHER]

No its pretty small;

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by CANCRUSHER

[jvance]

i would stay away from the negatives.. and machines like this. There is too much emphasis on trying to close big grippers in short time. I made crazy progress doing negatives and overcrushes - but i suffered from severe tendinitis as a result for much of early 2013. This really set me back during my training for Nationals. Look at all the other big gripper names like Kinney, Vogt, or Sum.... all these guys pretty much destroyed their hands with heavy ass grippers and negatives. I will never do negatives again. I advocate for variety in grip training.. it has allowed me to train week after week with only one day off, with no pain and continual PRs. heck i only work grippers once or twice a week while i can all kinds of other specific movements.

[Juha Harju]

Here is mine:

[Cannon]

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen. That thing looks awesome. I'm currently supplementing my gripper training with negatives on the beefbuilder grip machine...same concept i suppose?

If you have the beefbuilder grip machine, I don't think you need a secret weapon. They are over-rated IMO. Also I've posted quite a bit about training with them. I'll see if I can dig that up.

[Cannon]

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=34637&p=482748

Here's what I wrote:

I train with it slightly different. I view it as a surgical device to specifically train BTR power. As opposed to the other machines which I feel are more comfortable to train brute strength that translates well to the sweep.

One mistake I feel people make--which adds to the PAIN you usually hear is associated with the SW--is that they lift the weight entirely, then close their hand tightly, then let go. As the weight drops, it mutilates your fingers as the moving arm drags itself over muscles, bones, joints, etc. If you picture what is happening, if the moving arm didn't "reposition" itself by ripping through your hand, the alternative would be dislocated fingers.

What I do is put my hand on the machine when it's open and close my fingers with the moving arm. So my fingers are positioned on the SW as if it was closed from being open--same as a gripper. But then the weight hits your hand in the closed position which is impossible to duplicate with a gripper.

You want to choose a weight light enough that you can resist it, at least briefly, in the closed position. In my opinion, the SW stationary handle should be filed through almost completely. Maybe only about 1/8" of the tip of the handle left. I also feel the range of motion should be limited to 1-1/2" or less. Fight the negative from shut all the way down. Pick a weight were the first negative lasts in the 20-30 second range. That will be your best rep. If you're truly giving the negatives everything you have, the time should degrade pretty quickly. It's a test of mental fortitude to be sure. My last workout lasted 4 reps before the weight was dropping straight down like a rock and I knew I was done. I will probably always stay in the 3-8 rep range and the goal is to add weight.

Again, the key points of the SW for me are 1) BTR focus, 2) Short range of motion, 3) Quality of the negative.

Depending on the length of the moving arm, it doesn't take much weight to get the job done.

[John McCarter]

Sorry if that question is ridiculous, but i am new and have searched and can't find out anything else about it except that at one point it was sold by gillingham. What is it and how can i get one???

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen. That thing looks awesome. I'm currently supplementing my gripper training with negatives on the beefbuilder grip machine...same concept i suppose?

Also gabe I was thinking about getting the ttk. I know you're a big advocate of dynamic pinch training. Does it take up a lot of room?

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen. That thing looks awesome. I'm currently supplementing my gripper training with negatives on the beefbuilder grip machine...same concept i suppose?

Also gabe I was thinking about getting the ttk. I know you're a big advocate of dynamic pinch training. Does it take up a lot of room?

Absolutely not its pretty small;

This videos are an awesome source of information:

IronMind Titan's Telegraph Key (TTK)

The Secret Weapon

If you have others questions john mccarter knows a ton of shit about this stuff.

Warning, this is maybe the longest post I've ever done to-date!

Since you're new to the concepts of negatives, I'm going to be real with you and say be careful if you plan to use negatives! There are good and bad points. The positive side, they do increase strength but at the same time, the risk of injury is great if not done correctly. I'll cover move about Negative in a few but first I'll share some information about grip machine training.

On Grip Machines.

When using a grip machine, the feel will be very different in how it compares to a hand gripper, since you can actually use real weight to add/take away from the numbers your approaching. When working with the placement of the hand(s) for double or single efforts, the best placement is always going to be in the center of the machine (it works in the same principle as the understanding of gravity, the more you are towards the center of the machine, the more resistance you'll be working with, while at the same time, when you place your hand at the far end, the less amount of weight you'll be using).

The Secret Weapon

This machine was made by Joe Kinney in his effort to train negatives in a range tighter than a gripper, most of the time the top handle will be filed for beyond the range work. The machine is only intended for negatives. The position of where the weight hangs will actually cause the weight to become 2.5 times what you're lifting. I would never recommend doing positive movements on a secret weapon as the machine will take a lot out of you. Now the great thing about the machine is that you don't need a whole lot of weight to work you. Also, when using the swing handle, I would recommend that you use your non-gripping hand to hold it until the negative is actually done so you can safely place the weight back down.

I personally haven't used the Secret Weapon in months as I've been using hand grippers to do negatives with right now. When I was really using the Secret Weapon, I wanted to push my body beyond the level that could be achieved with that machine. There was only one problem I had, I gained so much strength with it but never touched hand grippers and that caused me to have a set back in terms of crushing strength on them. You have to balance the two as one in a way. The numbers I got on that machine was always in the relation to what I knew I could do in terms of the physical/mental state of things, what I mean is, I was on a mission to destroy the #3 certification, the machine was the number one means by how I got there. When I certified on the #3 coc, I was using 187.6lbs and then when I was reaching the max of what the machine could hold was 281.2 lbs. I never maxed out while using the secret weapon, I haven't used mine in a serious manner like I did when I was going for the #3 cert. The reason for that change was due to the fact I needed something else. Again, if I worked both hand grippers and the secret weapon, there is no telling how far I could have gone, but since I focused only my efforts with the secret weapon and cut out grippers, it caused a reverse affect on what I was doing.

Since you're using the Warren Tetting Grip Machine, I wouldn't suggest getting anything else as it is really all you need.

Negatives

The following is only my opinion and theory towards the concepts/ideas of Negative Training. These are going to be very different for everybody. Negatives will only work for a handful of people. The main thing to consider is or will negatives be the movement that works best for you? When I was having trouble progressing towards the #3, I was barely closing a 2.5, but when I started using negatives, only in one month I went from almost not closing a 2.5 to mashing the handles of a #3 like nothing.

Now the question, how did I get started with negatives and how was it that they work for me so well?

Like a lot of people, I was going nowhere, doing reps was not getting the job done in any way. I was stuck, hitting my head up against a brick wall. I was pissed and beyond angry because I had been chasing the #3 for nearly 5 years, and I had enough and made up my mind to do something different. A name came to me and that was Joe Kinney. I copied everything that was in his video and portion of the coc book. I gained strength but the problem was this, after doing my 3rd 60 negative workout, my hand hurt bad. I mean to the point of almost breaking and never being able to use them again. So that I had to change what I was doing wrong. Below is what I would/will always consider to be how to do a true negative

How to do a Negative

1) Test the machine/gripper out on how you feel

2) Only do a minimum of 3 negatives and a maximum of 15 negatives each hand

3) The time one should hold the handles shut is no longer then 3-5 seconds.

4) All out maximum effort crushing strength should be applied when in the closed position

5) When the handles begin to open, consider the negative to be done and switch to the other hand

6) Only do what your body can handle and never push more than what can be done

7) Negatives should only be done as singles

8) Take as much time as you need to until your next attempt

9) If you can't do any more, DON'T PUSH IT!

10) Never work up to 60 singles as that will make injury occur

11) Be smart and know if you're not progressing with negative, use something else

The videos CANCRUSHER linked are very helpful and are about the only videos you'll actually find on how to use the secret weapon (besides Joe Kinney's dvd), and the ttk.

If you need any more questions answered on the secret weapon or negative let me know.

[truth1ness]

Something I don't understand is why these aren't good for positives? Is there just a bias towards using it for negatives because Kinney invented it and that's how he used it or is there some mechanical reason why it's not good for those? The Pop's grip machine now has a pretty similar handle and it seems like people use it for either. Is doing positives on a secret weapon any harsher on the hands than a gripper?

[Anthony C.]

This is great info here...gabriele thank you for the links to those videos.

Matt..thanks for that post. I think I''ll shy away from the secret weapon due to the fact that i have the tetting machine I guess.

Jon Vance...you're right and since I've been training with weights for 7 years I know that it can have a bad effect on the body. What i'm trying to do with grip training is I picked up a lot of exercises from John Brookfield which seem to also strengthen the ligaments and tendons in the hand to supplement hard training. I'm hoping that combined with active recovery will keep my hands healthy.

John...that was a wealth of knowledge and advice. I've read that training with a machine won't help your gripper game unless you do both. So basically now I'll train grip twice per week; once with grippers and once with the machine. I only do 3 negatives per hand because after that I feel like i "did something" and anymore would be overkill. However, my holds have been closer to 20-30 seconds. So you're saying 5 seconds max? That would require much more weight for me to use. Again, thank you for that informed post man.

[Cannon]

I only do 3 negatives per hand because after that I feel like i "did something" and anymore would be overkill. However, my holds have been closer to 20-30 seconds.

^ That's what worked the best for me.

[John McCarter]

This is great info here...gabriele thank you for the links to those videos.

Matt..thanks for that post. I think I''ll shy away from the secret weapon due to the fact that i have the tetting machine I guess.

Jon Vance...you're right and since I've been training with weights for 7 years I know that it can have a bad effect on the body. What i'm trying to do with grip training is I picked up a lot of exercises from John Brookfield which seem to also strengthen the ligaments and tendons in the hand to supplement hard training. I'm hoping that combined with active recovery will keep my hands healthy.

John...that was a wealth of knowledge and advice. I've read that training with a machine won't help your gripper game unless you do both. So basically now I'll train grip twice per week; once with grippers and once with the machine. I only do 3 negatives per hand because after that I feel like i "did something" and anymore would be overkill. However, my holds have been closer to 20-30 seconds. So you're saying 5 seconds max? That would require much more weight for me to use. Again, thank you for that informed post man.

Everybody is different when it comes to certain training methods, what I wrote was a guideline for starting/using negatives if you're new to them. If you look at the first thing I wrote "Test the machine/gripper out on how you feel" this is in reference to how much weight you intend to use for the workout.

The amount of time you are using right now may actually go down when you start getting to heavier weight on the machine at a later point in time. Also, if you do not feel like using the full range when attempting to lift the handles together, place some weight under the cage and have the handles set to a distance that is going to be best for you. In my case, I have mine set to about 20-25mm when using it for single hand use.

I never asked what weights you are using on your grip machine but I'm going to assume it isn't super heavy yet. Below is an example of progressing towards a heavy weight.

Say you want to use 250lbs for negatives or more but you're use to only doing 150lbs for 3 sets of 20-30 seconds with one hand at the current time, the 150 is a weight your body/hands will get use too after a certain amount of time, to keep progressing you need to do more resistance with max crushing effort (you crush the hell out of the handles together with a weight that is going to work you). The first thing to do is putting on 5 or 10lbs (weight will depend on what you can use), if it's not enough, you add more. Look at the guideline I wrote again. You want to progress towards what you want to achieve; since 3 is the amount of singles that work best for you, stick with that number. Amount of time you use can go down. But all you have to do is simply do is the amount of numbers you're use to and add more weight to progress on the machine.

As for hand grippers, I would suggest doing what you currently are doing for them as they will be the means to seeing progression in motion.

One thing I forgot to mention while doing negatives, never fight the handles all the way open. That will kill your hands, that is why I suggest only doing them until the handles begin to open, once that happens, open it up and and switch to the other hand.

[John McCarter]

Something I don't understand is why these aren't good for positives? Is there just a bias towards using it for negatives because Kinney invented it and that's how he used it or is there some mechanical reason why it's not good for those? The Pop's grip machine now has a pretty similar handle and it seems like people use it for either. Is doing positives on a secret weapon any harsher on the hands than a gripper?

The Secret Weapon was intended for the soul purpose of doing negatives in a beyond the range motion with the top handle filed to the point where it is tighter than a gripper in the closed position. That is how the machine was designed by Kinney. I'm not saying a person couldn't do positive movements on the machine. I would only suggest if a person was to use a positive on the secret weapon, they would need to keep the handles normal and not file them, the reason, you would get pinched to the point where you would/could bleed all over the weight.

There's never really been a set of rules for the secret weapon, it was more of an unwritten rule that it was for negatives only. Kinney never claimed it couldn't be done for positive movements. His whole mission was to use the machine to work the closed position with a filed handle for a tight B.T.R. method, with little weight, that is where another grip machine would be used for heavy work.

The Pop's Gripper, I say is the best grip machine out for sale because it offers more features than any other machine will. The crushbooster is more or less a version of the secret weapon. It can be used for both positive and negatives work.

[CANCRUSHER]

On 10/30/2013 at 11:29 PM, truth1ness said:

Something I don't understand is why these aren't good for positives? Is there just a bias towards using it for negatives because Kinney invented it and that's how he used it or is there some mechanical reason why it's not good for those? The Pop's grip machine now has a pretty similar handle and it seems like people use it for either. Is doing positives on a secret weapon any harsher on the hands than a gripper?

I think grippers are the most important thing to get better at grippers.

Edited February 6, 2019 by CANCRUSHER

[Cannon]

Is doing positives on a secret weapon any harsher on the hands than a gripper?

I feel like this amounts to "Well, if you have to ask..."

If you ever get a chance to use a Secret Weapon, load some weight on there and try to do some regular closes.

On the other hand, I had a replica made of Joe's tire rim grip machine and I loved using that thing for heavy positive closes. It's just different.

[Anthony C.]

So it seems that the negatives are great for building strength, but as for the time to hold, that varies person to person. I'll have to see what carries over best for me to grippers. I'm nowhere near 250 in plates on the machine lol. I will definitely take that advice on not fighting the handles if they open. Not looking to get arthritis from this. As it is i'm nursing my shoulder.

Funny, i see guys on here who use grippers four times a week. If i even look at one more than once a week, i seem to regress. But then again, i've always responded best to low volume and low frequency.

[John McCarter]

So it seems that the negatives are great for building strength, but as for the time to hold, that varies person to person. I'll have to see what carries over best for me to grippers. I'm nowhere near 250 in plates on the machine lol. I will definitely take that advice on not fighting the handles if they open. Not looking to get arthritis from this. As it is i'm nursing my shoulder.

Funny, i see guys on here who use grippers four times a week. If i even look at one more than once a week, i seem to regress. But then again, i've always responded best to low volume and low frequency.

Since you work best with low volume work, don't get KTA. The reason is it's 6 days long and about 10 weeks long, really takes a toll on the hands but one h*** of a program.

[Anthony C.]

So it seems that the negatives are great for building strength, but as for the time to hold, that varies person to person. I'll have to see what carries over best for me to grippers. I'm nowhere near 250 in plates on the machine lol. I will definitely take that advice on not fighting the handles if they open. Not looking to get arthritis from this. As it is i'm nursing my shoulder.

Funny, i see guys on here who use grippers four times a week. If i even look at one more than once a week, i seem to regress. But then again, i've always responded best to low volume and low frequency.

Since you work best with low volume work, don't get KTA. The reason is it's 6 days long and about 10 weeks long, really takes a toll on the hands but one h*** of a program.

gotcha. I heard it was volume intensive and decided not to bother with it.

[Geralt]

There is too much emphasis on trying to close big grippers in short time. I made crazy progress doing negatives and overcrushes - but i suffered from severe tendinitis as a result for much of early 2013. This really set me back during my training for Nationals. Look at all the other big gripper names like Kinney, Vogt, or Sum.... all these guys pretty much destroyed their hands with heavy ass grippers and negatives. I will never do negatives again. I advocate for variety in grip training.. it has allowed me to train week after week with only one day off, with no pain and continual PRs. heck i only work grippers once or twice a week while i can all kinds of other specific movements.

Yes. A lot of guys can get away with this, but set against the majority of trainees, that number of guys is just a minority I think. Most people (me including) get carried away, go apenuts in volume and with weight and - presto - there 's the *#@! injury. My last injury however came from regular thickbar work, so it wouldn't be right to blame devices like this negative machines solely for this. Just remember this aren't magical machines that will lead to grip immortalness, when put to correct (sparingly) use, they can be beneficial. But as Jvance said: plowing away, being patient and persistent will in the end alway prove supreme above the use of any specific device.