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New #4 Close (cracked The Handles Together)


Paul Savage

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Mike Rinderle

World Class Paul! Great stuff!

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Cracked the handles together on my new #4. Matt Cannon rated it at 205lbs RGC. I've added a couple other videos also.

First and foremost: I have the same concerns as others about the video, BUT assuming that the video is legit: Congratulations, Paul! A Cannon calibrated 205lb #4 is beastly with that set and control!

Yeah If your best close is a #3 the #4's gonna feel like your trying to ski on fire (not the best idea if you want to save injury). They have not actually asked me to do the other grippers first, jus

Ivarboneless

First and foremost: I have the same concerns as others about the video, BUT assuming that the video is legit: Congratulations, Paul! A Cannon calibrated 205lb #4 is beastly with that set and control! I have never seen anything like it.

My question to Randall:

If Paul said "Yeah, I'm ready to do the certification," would you let him? Suppose he said "I have never closed a #4 with a credit card set, but I will be able to by the certification date, and I want to proceed with the certification." Would you allow him to attempt the certification?

It seems like the man would not request the certification if he didn't think he would be ready at the time of the certification. He had a very planned out timeframe set out in advance which seems to have been ruined now. I think it would be a little unreasonable to require a man to remain at a CCS random #4 level (as in who knows what you get from IM) for some period of time before the certification when no one has ever certified under these rules and few people are even remotely close....and I don't believe I have ever even seen a video of a credit card set #4 close. Injuries happen, and remaining in peak shape is extremely difficult and taxing on the body. I think if the man requests a shot and believes he will be ready at the appropriate time, he should get a shot...regardless of whether he can perform the feat at the present time or not.

Perhaps it really was Paul's decision to hold off. The answers to my questions above will provide me the information I need.

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slazbob

Paul said he can't ccs the no.4 right now.... So why would he even want a cert now? That's really the issue here- he wants a sort of countdown to cert day. There is no reason to ask for it now.

He wants it in August I believe. And if he's ready then, I'm sure Randall would have no problem with that.

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Randall Strossen

First and foremost: I have the same concerns as others about the video, BUT assuming that the video is legit: Congratulations, Paul! A Cannon calibrated 205lb #4 is beastly with that set and control! I have never seen anything like it.

My question to Randall:

If Paul said "Yeah, I'm ready to do the certification," would you let him? Suppose he said "I have never closed a #4 with a credit card set, but I will be able to by the certification date, and I want to proceed with the certification." Would you allow him to attempt the certification?

It seems like the man would not request the certification if he didn't think he would be ready at the time of the certification. He had a very planned out timeframe set out in advance which seems to have been ruined now. I think it would be a little unreasonable to require a man to remain at a CCS random #4 level (as in who knows what you get from IM) for some period of time before the certification when no one has ever certified under these rules and few people are even remotely close....and I don't believe I have ever even seen a video of a credit card set #4 close. Injuries happen, and remaining in peak shape is extremely difficult and taxing on the body. I think if the man requests a shot and believes he will be ready at the appropriate time, he should get a shot...regardless of whether he can perform the feat at the present time or not.

Perhaps it really was Paul's decision to hold off. The answers to my questions above will provide me the information I need.

IronMind requests that people have mastered the gripper before they request a certification attempt—this has been mentioned more than once I think on this thread and it's in the rules that everyone says he has read and understood, but for a lot of people that does not seem to be the case, right?

"random #4 in who knows what you get from IM" . . . oh, my! Try this one, instead: Better a CoC No. 4 than a random RGC any day.

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Justin Matney

in regards to the original video, the gripper does not appear to be closed.

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Ivarboneless

I was referring to Paul's request to cert in August which appears to have been derailed. I wasn't suggesting that he attempt to cert today/tomorrow or whatever, merely that he should be allowed to proceed as planned in August if he so chooses.

My point being you never know how hard the gripper from IM is going to be. IM makes excellent grippers...and happens to be the only brand that I have personally purchased (though I own HG, RB, and BB)...I did not intend to suggest that the quality of the product is poor. I only meant that it is a standard fact that grippers vary, and it's a roll of the dice. A Cannon rated #205 is a stout #4, so if Paul feels like he can CCS that by August, I say give him the green light to make his dream happen.

From what I've seen, Paul has "mastered the gripper" to the point that he knows what level he expects to be at. It sounds like the answer to both of my questions is "No, we will not let him attempt the certification." This leads me to the conclusion that, rather than Paul stepping down for fear of failing the certification attempt, IM has persuaded him to delay.

Given how beastly this feat is, I have a bad taste in my mouth about doing anything to sidetrack his plan to certify in August since he seems to be the one with the best shot of actually certifying with these rules.

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kasparov

Really good point ivar, few people in the world are going to attempt to certify with 4, I say when they train for it and have a good shot, let them go for it. Everyone wants to see the 4 ccs,d.

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Wannagrip

Personally, I felt ready for my #3 cert when I could do multiple singles (6-7) consistently (per the rules at the time of course).

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slazbob

A few don't understand what's going on here- the same stuff is repeated over. Paul is NOT being denied a cert .... He's being denied time because he's NOT ready- and wants to request a cert 2 months from now on a hunch he'll be ready.

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lifesnotfair

Excuse my ignorance, but at the Top Level, doesn't everyone do some sort of "periodization" or a very thought-put schedule that has them "peak" in strength towards a certain date? (which usually coincedes with the date of a Contest, Meet, or whatever it's called). (Sorry, english is not my main language).

So in order to cert on the #4, you can't really train and Peak for it... you have to remain at that level of strength for a long period of time? Wow, this feat is remarkably tough!

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Randall Strossen

Paul said he can't ccs the no.4 right now.... So why would he even want a cert now? That's really the issue here- he wants a sort of countdown to cert day. There is no reason to ask for it now.

He wants it in August I believe. And if he's ready then, I'm sure Randall would have no problem with that.

Yes, absolutely—I agree.

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Randall Strossen

in regards to the original video, the gripper does not appear to be closed.

That was my take on it, too—I'm too tech-challenged to know how to freeze it and advance frame by frame, and everything happened so quickly after the gripper disappeared and then reappeared, but I was not convinced the handles touched, either.

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Randall Strossen

I was referring to Paul's request to cert in August which appears to have been derailed. I wasn't suggesting that he attempt to cert today/tomorrow or whatever, merely that he should be allowed to proceed as planned in August if he so chooses.

My point being you never know how hard the gripper from IM is going to be. IM makes excellent grippers...and happens to be the only brand that I have personally purchased (though I own HG, RB, and BB)...I did not intend to suggest that the quality of the product is poor. I only meant that it is a standard fact that grippers vary, and it's a roll of the dice. A Cannon rated #205 is a stout #4, so if Paul feels like he can CCS that by August, I say give him the green light to make his dream happen.

From what I've seen, Paul has "mastered the gripper" to the point that he knows what level he expects to be at. It sounds like the answer to both of my questions is "No, we will not let him attempt the certification." This leads me to the conclusion that, rather than Paul stepping down for fear of failing the certification attempt, IM has persuaded him to delay.

Given how beastly this feat is, I have a bad taste in my mouth about doing anything to sidetrack his plan to certify in August since he seems to be the one with the best shot of actually certifying with these rules.

How'd he'd get sidetracked? He's not ready—when he it, he'll get his shot.

It seems like we're going around in circles on this and the whole thing could hardly be simpler: Paul is not ready now and when he is, he should request a shot at getting certified and he will get it. It's really just that simple.

Back on the comment about not knowing how hard a gripper to expect from IronMind, I think that's balderdash—you can RGC grippers until the cows come home and the better you get at it, the better you will understand a) that's not the be-all end-all in terms of describing what a gripper feels like to be closed and b) Captains of Crush grippers are more accurate than most of the plates most guy (don't) lift or just about anything else they take at face value every day—the temperature on their thermometers, the size of the 2 x 4 holding up their houses, the width of their shoes, the actual amount of beer in their pint, etc.

Get real on this stuff and quit wasting your time looking for monsters under the bed each time the lights go out.

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Randall Strossen

Personally, I felt ready for my #3 cert when I could do multiple singles (6-7) consistently (per the rules at the time of course).

Yes, mastery of the gripper, rather than hoping for a magical day that allows you to exceed your previous best by 10% by the grace of God or something.

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Randall Strossen

A few don't understand what's going on here- the same stuff is repeated over. Paul is NOT being denied a cert .... He's being denied time because he's NOT ready- and wants to request a cert 2 months from now on a hunch he'll be ready.

Come on, slazbob, are you just going to be rational?

Yes to everything you said: Yes, yes and yes.

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Randall Strossen

Excuse my ignorance, but at the Top Level, doesn't everyone do some sort of "periodization" or a very thought-put schedule that has them "peak" in strength towards a certain date? (which usually coincedes with the date of a Contest, Meet, or whatever it's called). (Sorry, english is not my main language).

So in order to cert on the #4, you can't really train and Peak for it... you have to remain at that level of strength for a long period of time? Wow, this feat is remarkably tough!

Arturo -

I think this is a very good question and a situation well worth considering, but when Bill or TJJ or Chez or anyone else certified on the Captains of Crush No. 3 gripper, it was not a tight-wire balancing act for them—they had the juice to crush the gripper on demand. Yes, they could still have had a bad day, but the important thing is that they were not at the point where they had to bank on having a spectacular day in order to succeed.

It's the same process with the Captains of Crush No. 4, only the bar is higher.

At the 2004 World's Strongest Man contest, Magnus Samuelsson told me, "I have lost my fear of the No. 4," which literally stopped me in my tracks because I knew he'd hit a level of achievement on this gripper that was beyond anyone I knew of. Magnus would pick up a CoC No. 4 on demand,—not fiddling around positioning it this way or that, not starting from a deep set that made a mockery of this traditional test of strength—and then he did the vital part: he crushed the snot out of the thing.

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Paul Savage

Randall - No offence meant here but it really doesn't require tech knowledge to know if the gripper was shut or not, just use your ears (the handles crack together).

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Randall Strossen

Randall - No offence meant here but it really doesn't require tech knowledge to know if the gripper was shut or not, just use your ears (the handles crack together).

Agreed, but I was talking about the visual, so if I could have figured out a way to advance frame by frame, maybe I could have said for sure whether I thought the handles touched or not.

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jvance

I was referring to Paul's request to cert in August which appears to have been derailed. I wasn't suggesting that he attempt to cert today/tomorrow or whatever, merely that he should be allowed to proceed as planned in August if he so chooses.

My point being you never know how hard the gripper from IM is going to be. IM makes excellent grippers...and happens to be the only brand that I have personally purchased (though I own HG, RB, and BB)...I did not intend to suggest that the quality of the product is poor. I only meant that it is a standard fact that grippers vary, and it's a roll of the dice. A Cannon rated #205 is a stout #4, so if Paul feels like he can CCS that by August, I say give him the green light to make his dream happen.

From what I've seen, Paul has "mastered the gripper" to the point that he knows what level he expects to be at. It sounds like the answer to both of my questions is "No, we will not let him attempt the certification." This leads me to the conclusion that, rather than Paul stepping down for fear of failing the certification attempt, IM has persuaded him to delay.

Given how beastly this feat is, I have a bad taste in my mouth about doing anything to sidetrack his plan to certify in August since he seems to be the one with the best shot of actually certifying with these rules.

How'd he'd get sidetracked? He's not ready—when he it, he'll get his shot.

It seems like we're going around in circles on this and the whole thing could hardly be simpler: Paul is not ready now and when he is, he should request a shot at getting certified and he will get it. It's really just that simple.

Back on the comment about not knowing how hard a gripper to expect from IronMind, I think that's balderdash—you can RGC grippers until the cows come home and the better you get at it, the better you will understand a) that's not the be-all end-all in terms of describing what a gripper feels like to be closed and b) Captains of Crush grippers are more accurate than most of the plates most guy (don't) lift or just about anything else they take at face value every day—the temperature on their thermometers, the size of the 2 x 4 holding up their houses, the width of their shoes, the actual amount of beer in their pint, etc.

Get real on this stuff and quit wasting your time looking for monsters under the bed each time the lights go out.

Actually there is quite a difference; from the tough 3s i have closed - all the way to the easy ones. The RGC consistently corroborates what I feel is a distinct difference in feel between these grippers.

While the majority of these grippers stay around the same baseline (150ish for a 3) some of them do vary greatly in RCG strength as well as corresponding feel. No, there are no monsters under my bed :)

I think Paul should get a shot at the 4; it seems he has planned it out much like a powerlifter would in an attempt at a world record. I doubt they consistently master their PR weight before peaking and attempting. Also, his YT channel has a myriad of evidence of his crush strength. The CCS will be close - no doubt... but I think he can close it based on what I've watched from him.

Edited by jvance
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Mike Sharkey

My 2 cents: cert the 3.5 on the way. Leave no doubt. I'm a bender. Our legend is Gazza. We don't talk about him because there is mystery. I'm more philosph than athlete, but the extremes of human capability interest me. I very much like to know what they are.

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Get real on this stuff and quit wasting your time looking for monsters under the bed each time the lights go out.

I spit my drink all over my computer when I read this...

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jvance

Get real on this stuff and quit wasting your time looking for monsters under the bed each time the lights go out.

I spit my drink all over my computer when I read this...

@gm1swm: I know right.. I didn't take it too well. It's disrespectful to the grip community given our reliance on RGC for contest scoring and ranking. Many of these grippers have also been cross-calibrated with the same results - it's very accurate and very telling.

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anwnate

Excuse my ignorance, but at the Top Level, doesn't everyone do some sort of "periodization" or a very thought-put schedule that has them "peak" in strength towards a certain date? (which usually coincedes with the date of a Contest, Meet, or whatever it's called). (Sorry, english is not my main language).

So in order to cert on the #4, you can't really train and Peak for it... you have to remain at that level of strength for a long period of time? Wow, this feat is remarkably tough!

Arturo -

I think this is a very good question and a situation well worth considering, but when Bill or TJJ or Chez or anyone else certified on the Captains of Crush No. 3 gripper, it was not a tight-wire balancing act for them—they had the juice to crush the gripper on demand. Yes, they could still have had a bad day, but the important thing is that they were not at the point where they had to bank on having a spectacular day in order to succeed.

It's the same process with the Captains of Crush No. 4, only the bar is higher.

At the 2004 World's Strongest Man contest, Magnus Samuelsson told me, "I have lost my fear of the No. 4," which literally stopped me in my tracks because I knew he'd hit a level of achievement on this gripper that was beyond anyone I knew of. Magnus would pick up a CoC No. 4 on demand,—not fiddling around positioning it this way or that, not starting from a deep set that made a mockery of this traditional test of strength—and then he did the vital part: he crushed the snot out of the thing.

Initially, I only had an issue with the bold text, as remaining video evidence on youtube does not support this assertion.

MS uses what appears to be a deepset and obscured close. If MS could do as purported...it was with a much different #4.

Upon reading it again, the following text jumped out at me. " which literally stopped me in my tracks because I knew he'd hit a level of achievement on this gripper that was beyond anyone I knew of."

This is an odd thing to say considering the constant communication between IM and Joe Kinney five years earlier.

Especially since it culminated in a documented video close that makes even Holle's GHP9 set and close seem labored.

Back to the thread...Nice close Paul.

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Justin Matney

Excuse my ignorance, but at the Top Level, doesn't everyone do some sort of "periodization" or a very thought-put schedule that has them "peak" in strength towards a certain date? (which usually coincedes with the date of a Contest, Meet, or whatever it's called). (Sorry, english is not my main language).

So in order to cert on the #4, you can't really train and Peak for it... you have to remain at that level of strength for a long period of time? Wow, this feat is remarkably tough!

Arturo -

I think this is a very good question and a situation well worth considering, but when Bill or TJJ or Chez or anyone else certified on the Captains of Crush No. 3 gripper, it was not a tight-wire balancing act for them—they had the juice to crush the gripper on demand. Yes, they could still have had a bad day, but the important thing is that they were not at the point where they had to bank on having a spectacular day in order to succeed.

It's the same process with the Captains of Crush No. 4, only the bar is higher.

At the 2004 World's Strongest Man contest, Magnus Samuelsson told me, "I have lost my fear of the No. 4," which literally stopped me in my tracks because I knew he'd hit a level of achievement on this gripper that was beyond anyone I knew of. Magnus would pick up a CoC No. 4 on demand,—not fiddling around positioning it this way or that, not starting from a deep set that made a mockery of this traditional test of strength—and then he did the vital part: he crushed the snot out of the thing.

Initially, I only had an issue with the bold text, as remaining video evidence on youtube does not support this assertion.

MS uses what appears to be a deepset and obscured close. If MS could do as purported...it was with a much different #4.

agreed on this. the popular video of Magnus closing a new #4 is inconclusive at very best. a deep set is used, and his hands are so big and in such an awkward position that it's impossible to even see the gripper, let alone determine if it is closed. (from what I understand, this was one of the obstacles in his certification, the fact that his hands are so big that it was difficult to determine if the gripper was closed.)

not that this takes away from the fact that he's probably one of the strongest men who ever lived, or that he did at one time close a new #4 under the old rules.

Edited by jmatney
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