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New #4 Close (cracked The Handles Together)


Paul Savage

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Paul...I think this issue stems from the multiple times Ioan has attempted the #4. From my understanding, he tried officially in Romania and then later tried while down in South Africa.

Randall made a post about this on the IM forums end of last year (search "boy who cried wolf"). I just think he doesn't want you to lose credibility if you happen to miss. It cost money for each cert and while it's "pennies" to IM, it adds up when you have multiple people claiming "this time, I'll close it"...

Good point, Paul S if you want the cert just do the # 3 and #3.5 and get it out of the way! Good luck

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Cracked the handles together on my new #4. Matt Cannon rated it at 205lbs RGC. I've added a couple other videos also.

First and foremost: I have the same concerns as others about the video, BUT assuming that the video is legit: Congratulations, Paul! A Cannon calibrated 205lb #4 is beastly with that set and control!

Yeah If your best close is a #3 the #4's gonna feel like your trying to ski on fire (not the best idea if you want to save injury). They have not actually asked me to do the other grippers first, jus

Stephen Ruby

Paul...I think this issue stems from the multiple times Ioan has attempted the #4. From my understanding, he tried officially in Romania and then later tried while down in South Africa.

Randall made a post about this on the IM forums end of last year (search "boy who cried wolf"). I just think he doesn't want you to lose credibility if you happen to miss. It cost money for each cert and while it's "pennies" to IM, it adds up when you have multiple people claiming "this time, I'll close it"...

I understand the point but paul said he planned on doing both the #3 and 3.5 on his cert day but also wanted to try the #4 which has always been his main goal. Based on his videos you can see he has probably the best chance of getting this done right now based on his recent progress. He should be given the chance to have his attempt. I would show them your videos and explain that you feel you should be ready. Realistically I don't agree that you should be able to do a #4 any day with a CCS since this has never been done before.

I mean I watched the training prep that benedikt magnusson was doing before his historic 1k+ lb deadlift raw and he was not hitting 1k any day of the week he was peaking to hit it on the contest day most of his reps were done in the high 800's. I don't think anyone would say to him no you can't attempt 1klbs to break the record because you haven't done it already.

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Paul...I think this issue stems from the multiple times Ioan has attempted the #4. From my understanding, he tried officially in Romania and then later tried while down in South Africa.

Randall made a post about this on the IM forums end of last year (search "boy who cried wolf"). I just think he doesn't want you to lose credibility if you happen to miss. It cost money for each cert and while it's "pennies" to IM, it adds up when you have multiple people claiming "this time, I'll close it"...

I understand the point but paul said he planned on doing both the #3 and 3.5 on his cert day but also wanted to try the #4 which has always been his main goal. Based on his videos you can see he has probably the best chance of getting this done right now based on his recent progress. He should be given the chance to have his attempt. I would show them your videos and explain that you feel you should be ready. Realistically I don't agree that you should be able to do a #4 any day with a CCS since this has never been done before.

I mean I watched the training prep that benedikt magnusson was doing before his historic 1k+ lb deadlift raw and he was not hitting 1k any day of the week he was peaking to hit it on the contest day most of his reps were done in the high 800's. I don't think anyone would say to him no you can't attempt 1klbs to break the record because you haven't done it already.

Kind of a different animal, Stephen. You'll never touch your max while training for a meet. You'll touch your opener late in the cycle, but never a max.

I understand that Paul is doing the same thing and honestly, I don't see a problem with it. However, someone mentioned earlier, "What if he got a gripper rated at 210?" That's the underlying issue I think with mastering a gripper. You deadlift 7 plates? You shouldn't care if those plates are 43 lbs apiece or 48...you'll pull seven plates!

IM wants to hear certainty when shelling out the money for a cert. You have to remember that IM doesn't ask you to cover shipping or even pay for the gripper, so if you miss the cert, it's ultimately a waste of several efforts.

CCS a #4 on video Paul and let 'me know what's really going on!!!!!!

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Bearcat 74

Paul...I think this issue stems from the multiple times Ioan has attempted the #4. From my understanding, he tried officially in Romania and then later tried while down in South Africa.

Randall made a post about this on the IM forums end of last year (search "boy who cried wolf"). I just think he doesn't want you to lose credibility if you happen to miss. It cost money for each cert and while it's "pennies" to IM, it adds up when you have multiple people claiming "this time, I'll close it"...

I understand the point but paul said he planned on doing both the #3 and 3.5 on his cert day but also wanted to try the #4 which has always been his main goal. Based on his videos you can see he has probably the best chance of getting this done right now based on his recent progress. He should be given the chance to have his attempt. I would show them your videos and explain that you feel you should be ready. Realistically I don't agree that you should be able to do a #4 any day with a CCS since this has never been done before.

I mean I watched the training prep that benedikt magnusson was doing before his historic 1k+ lb deadlift raw and he was not hitting 1k any day of the week he was peaking to hit it on the contest day most of his reps were done in the high 800's. I don't think anyone would say to him no you can't attempt 1klbs to break the record because you haven't done it already.

Kind of a different animal, Stephen. You'll never touch your max while training for a meet. You'll touch your opener late in the cycle, but never a max.

I understand that Paul is doing the same thing and honestly, I don't see a problem with it. However, someone mentioned earlier, "What if he got a gripper rated at 210?" That's the underlying issue I think with mastering a gripper. You deadlift 7 plates? You shouldn't care if those plates are 43 lbs apiece or 48...you'll pull seven plates!

IM wants to hear certainty when shelling out the money for a cert. You have to remember that IM doesn't ask you to cover shipping or even pay for the gripper, so if you miss the cert, it's ultimately a waste of several efforts.

CCS a #4 on video Paul and let 'me know what's really going on!!!!!!

Mastering what gripper, your's or an unknown? Your 7 plate example is about what you get with an unknown gripper. You deadlift 7 plates per side @ 43lbs per + 45lbs bar, 647lbs, and that's near your max. You go to another garage where you load up 7 per side @ 48lbs + 45lbs bar, that's 717lbs, probably gonna struggle with that one.

There was a #3 floating around that was owned by SuperSqueeze, I had closed I don't know how many 3's, Elites and whatever else. That #3 was a struggle to shut, several strong gripper guys missed it. Being good on a #3 or #4 doesn't mean you are good to go come cert time. I have an old single stamp hanging on my wall that I can almost set, almost. I also have a couple 4's I can shut.

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Bearcat 74

Paul, I apologize, great close and I am pulling for you 100% when it comes time for you to cert, 100%! I hope you knock the damn knurling off the handles man.

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Paul...I think this issue stems from the multiple times Ioan has attempted the #4. From my understanding, he tried officially in Romania and then later tried while down in South Africa.

Randall made a post about this on the IM forums end of last year (search "boy who cried wolf"). I just think he doesn't want you to lose credibility if you happen to miss. It cost money for each cert and while it's "pennies" to IM, it adds up when you have multiple people claiming "this time, I'll close it"...

I understand the point but paul said he planned on doing both the #3 and 3.5 on his cert day but also wanted to try the #4 which has always been his main goal. Based on his videos you can see he has probably the best chance of getting this done right now based on his recent progress. He should be given the chance to have his attempt. I would show them your videos and explain that you feel you should be ready. Realistically I don't agree that you should be able to do a #4 any day with a CCS since this has never been done before.

I mean I watched the training prep that benedikt magnusson was doing before his historic 1k+ lb deadlift raw and he was not hitting 1k any day of the week he was peaking to hit it on the contest day most of his reps were done in the high 800's. I don't think anyone would say to him no you can't attempt 1klbs to break the record because you haven't done it already.

Kind of a different animal, Stephen. You'll never touch your max while training for a meet. You'll touch your opener late in the cycle, but never a max.

I understand that Paul is doing the same thing and honestly, I don't see a problem with it. However, someone mentioned earlier, "What if he got a gripper rated at 210?" That's the underlying issue I think with mastering a gripper. You deadlift 7 plates? You shouldn't care if those plates are 43 lbs apiece or 48...you'll pull seven plates!

IM wants to hear certainty when shelling out the money for a cert. You have to remember that IM doesn't ask you to cover shipping or even pay for the gripper, so if you miss the cert, it's ultimately a waste of several efforts.

CCS a #4 on video Paul and let 'me know what's really going on!!!!!!

Mastering what gripper, your's or an unknown? Your 7 plate example is about what you get with an unknown gripper. You deadlift 7 plates per side @ 43lbs per + 45lbs bar, 647lbs, and that's near your max. You go to another garage where you load up 7 per side @ 48lbs + 45lbs bar, that's 717lbs, probably gonna struggle with that one.

There was a #3 floating around that was owned by SuperSqueeze, I had closed I don't know how many 3's, Elites and whatever else. That #3 was a struggle to shut, several strong gripper guys missed it. Being good on a #3 or #4 doesn't mean you are good to go come cert time. I have an old single stamp hanging on my wall that I can almost set, almost. I also have a couple 4's I can shut.

You're right, Heath...that is a bit excessive on my part!!

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Josh O'Dell

Just wondering what does the coc4 feel like compared to the coc3 ?

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Josh O'Dell

Im going to try the 3.5 tomorrow im getting the 3 alot better after that first close

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Paul Savage

Yeah If your best close is a #3 the #4's gonna feel like your trying to ski on fire (not the best idea if you want to save injury).

They have not actually asked me to do the other grippers first, just said they don't feel I'm ready for the 4, as i have not 'mastered the gripper', they want me to do it ccs frequently before the cert. As others have mentioned, it's very difficult to do this feat day in day out, old rules, sure, but ccs is oh so very hard. My whole view on it has been the same others have mentioned, we didn't see Andy Bolton pulling 1000lbs a bunch of times in training before he did it in competition, because, well, it's a thousand pound. The aim was to do the cert in early august. I wanted to do it at worlds strongest hands with David Horne judging. I thought that would be fitting, and it gave me several weeks to be ready. I feel on that day with contest environment, well rested hands and several more weeks highly focused training is very different than today. I am not going to complain though, if these are the rules, they are the rules and that's that, all i can do is keep working. Instead of complaining i worked till 8pm, shifting carpets and laminate wood around all day, then went home and trained till midnight. I did #4 many times without using my knee to set, cleaned 5 5kg plates, and nearly lifted 230kg axle (200kg went up easy).

edit - whats burkes world record axle again??

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Stephen Ruby

Insane numbers I hope you get the chance to cert this year, I think if you just showed them a video of your recent #4 close they should give you the chance.

Mike burke former American Strongest man has the current world record at 235kg

He has huge hangs I believe though + is a top strongman with probably a high 800 deadlift raw so if your lifting that already that is seriously outstanding.

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kasparov

Paul if you can't get an official crack, atleast do it unofficially on video with all the normal procedures present. That in itself would create a precedent that has never been established and would surely give you a go at an official attempt by Iron Mind.

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Carl Maguire

Paul, why not offer to reimburse their costs is you don't cert. Surely that will show your serious and you believe you can do it. It may be, as others have suggested, that IM are not wanting to send grippers all over the world to see people fail and then pick up the bill.

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GatorGrip

I think you are acting admirable about this and you are doing the right thing. Only 5 people have officially certified on the #4 CoC Gripper ever and the last was nearly a decade ago in 2004. Take your time and continue to build your strength and hone your technique so you will dominate this gripper. Make the close so powerful that no one could ever have any doubts about it-Period. I can't wait to see this become reality and I am sure it will in the near future. You have worked hard and deserve this opportunity no matter how long it may take to get the administrative stuff worked out.

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Paul Savage

Honestly at first i was mad and i thought the decision was unfair, however after it was explained to me that changed. Rules are rules and i can only blame myself as i was the one who wasn't aware.

It doesn't change anything in the big picture but realistically i do have to slow things down a bit as doing this fresh while peaked one time vs multiple times when not fresh are two different things. I will push until august, looking to get the ccs done at least once, pinch six 5kg, 100kg dumbbell fat gripz and hopefully a good number on the axle. After this i hope to go on holiday and take some down time as i have been pushing my body very hard for an extended period of time now. I don't want to do anything stupid and get injured.

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Juha Harju

I dont understand. If anyone (Randall etc...) dont know who you are in grip world then you must try to certify IM#3 first? After that IM3.5 etc...?

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Paul Savage

Is not about randall knowing me or not, or about doing the 3 or 3.5, is that i have not mastered the 4. Meaning that i have not consistently done ccs with untapered #4 gripper. I have been told i have to do this before certifying.

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Hubgeezer

I would skip the 3 Cert, do a 3.5 Cert. Burke skipped the 3 and went directly to the 3.5 after the LA Fit Expo.

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lifesnotfair

Paul, as many others have suggested, what about going for the #3.5 cert first?

Or do you want to be that "guy who never certed on the 3 or 3.5 and went directly to the #4"?

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Josh O'Dell

Either way im impressed just seein the 4 closed is inspiring

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Randall Strossen

So in other words they want you to cert on the grippers in order, not just jump to the 4 . . .

No—we, as in IronMind, didn't ask that and it's not required.

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Randall Strossen

Wow sounds like a lame excuse for them to force you to do the other certs in order.

The cert process is already a cost and time sink if I was in your position I would want to get the most bang for my buck also and go right to the #4 cert.

I really don't get it either since I remember reading you were going to do both the #3 and 3.5 on the same day as well as warm up and they have let other guys do this I believe Rich Williams did this.

Where's the lame excuse? Why would IronMind want to "force" anyone to certify on the grippers in order? Sounds like a KIM-type conspiracy theory to me.

The truth is very simple: Paul's video and his own statement in his pre-certification questionnaire indicated that he's not yet mastered the Captains of Crush No. 4 according to the rules.

Watch the video and speculate about the width of Paul's starting position, wonder why the gripper disappeared from view and wonder whether the handles really touched, but that's why there's a certification process that doesn't leave questions like that dangling.

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Randall Strossen

Wow sounds like a lame excuse for them to force you to do the other certs in order.

The cert process is already a cost and time sink if I was in your position I would want to get the most bang for my buck also and go right to the #4 cert.

I really don't get it either since I remember reading you were going to do both the #3 and 3.5 on the same day as well as warm up and they have let other guys do this I believe Rich Williams did this.

Where's the lame excuse? Why would IronMind want to "force" anyone to certify on the grippers in order? Sounds like a KIM-type conspiracy theory to me.

The truth is very simple: Paul's video and his own statement in his pre-certification questionnaire indicated that he's not yet mastered the Captains of Crush No. 4 according to the rules.

Watch the video and speculate about the width of Paul's starting position, wonder why the gripper disappeared from view and wonder whether the handles really touched, but that's why there's a certification process that doesn't leave questions like that dangling.

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Randall Strossen

Paul the same thing happened to me when I signed up for the #3 certification. They said I hadn't closed the #3 under certification conditions enough times before requesting the cert. They wanted me to do it under cert conditions many times before requesting the cert. Randall Strossen told me I can still do the certification if I was confident that I was ready. You probably got the same email that I did. He said it wasn't really a rejection but more questioning if I'm ready. We discussed this on the IM forum in this thread http://ironmind-forum.com/showthread.php?1617-Another-COC-3-CCS-close

Chez -

I'm interested in what you consider being the same thing, so I'll go back and review your request because the rules are both simple and clear: we want you to have mastered the gripper before requesting an official attempt. Here's a link to the rules:

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/captainsofcrush5.html

Chris is at lunch right now, but when he gets back, I'll have him pull your file for review.

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