mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 If you had gained strength including grip strength, would you have continued to use. What were you hoping for when you did take them? A very good question and one that I can only answer as 'what if'. Hmm I'd like to think the answer is no but then the questions becomes 'why bother in the first place?' Answer 'size'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I know next to nothing about steroids. Don't want to know, will not waste time learning to know. I feel the same way about recreational drugs (illegal ones). I have some general knowledge about steroids- when they entered the bodybuilding literature etc., but I pay no more attention to them than I do to drinking motor oil.There are five answers: 1. I use steroids 2. I have not used steroids 3. I have, but do not now use steroids. 4. I have not used, but plan to 5. None of your business 2 and 3 have merit; 5 is a non-answer answer This thread will continue without me- it is becoming circular, and non-productive, and unless something new is injected, it's more than I can swallow. I'll take door number three please Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Again, what can we derive from this discussion. What can be learned and settled from this topic? I don't think there's a whole lot to learn to be honest - other than (as you said) the fact that different people have different views and it will always be that way.Something must be produced from this argument, or it shouldn't have been started. The question was originally would drug-use tarnish a #4 close. The answer is obviously yes and no depending on the individual. Excellent topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Busted..... Oh yes busted...As for me i think of all the gripboard members that are not "busted" and that are on juice or used to. Just hope they didn't cast the first stone... Now what is funny with that cycle stuff is that you can even answer "no" and still be "honest" : Mr X: "are you on juice?" Mr Y (that has just finished his cycle) "honestly no i'm not" Of course Mr Y should have add "anymore" but it's not a real lie ah ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I may have been tempted, but have always been an easy gainer. I still grow like crazy as does my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 After 40 years or so I know what works for me. I am no Odd Haugen though he is the phenom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Cenidoza Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Steve are you saying that you have used drugs, and that it did not improve your grip, or are you saying that you know those who do and it has not improved their grip? Neither. Do not read into or infer. Just take the comment at face value and feel free to discuss. Perhaps a straight forward Poll which states 'In your opinion and based only on that would using roids to shut a 4 be cheating' Yes or No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 oops! Its still ok - I wasn't saying either. Its like the comment earlier about 'not right now'. If the question had been 'have u used steroids' and I had said yes straight out we wouldn't have enjoyed the long and educational discussion we have. Much better this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I am also good at talking my way out of anything. Even when I am wrong. Kind of like being a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Cenidoza Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I repeat that the harder you train, providing you also recover, the stronger you will become. This includes grip training. There are drugs that aid in doing this. I am inclined to believe that anyone who argues that steroids and the like do not improve grip, is probably using them and does not want to feel guilty or be accused of cheating. Some how I knew you'd be the one (I had wanna in 2nd place) that would think that. Personal attacks and or inferences are not the best way to prove a point. If I have and can tell you that they don't all arguements would be null and void but there would still be people that argue the opposing point. What next - you took some but not enough? You didn't take any and therefore are not talking from experience? C'mon argue your point without reverting to lowest common denominator - I know you can do it. Here's a challenge. Take some drugs and prove me wrong! Lowest common denominator huh? Using is one thing, lying about it is another and accussing people of jumping to conclusions and/or attacking is something in itself. Strait forward is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Are u saying that personal attacks would have been a best means of proving a point? I never said I was not - I'll repeat that - I NEVER SAID I DID OR DID NOT. Read every word. If you look you'll see that 1) I wanted to argue the point first and 2) even without knowing 100% way too many people were ready to judge. If you see that and agree it you will understand why it was better not to say but argue the point first. And it still proves my point does it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 It is nice to get some support around here. I sometimes pay the price for not just lurking or sitting on the fence, and speaking my mind. There are some who clearly do not like me. I can live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 It is nice to get some support around here. I sometimes pay the price for not just lurking or sitting on the fence, and speaking my mind. There are some who clearly do not like me. I can live with it. I wasn't having a go at u this time Indeed I felt some kinship with your 'barrackroom lawyer' comment. I'm sure you'll agree, on reflection, that it is one thing to speak ones mind but far better to think about what you are about to say first. From that 'having a go' at some one as a means of arguing your point isn't going to win an argument - arguing your pouint with facts, experience and actual data might fair better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I don't think any the less of Mobster for using, unless he presents himself as lifetime drugfree. I think all the posts about how steroids must help your grip are potentially more damaging since they encourage use. Steve, Did you see that your other lifts went up during your cycle? If not how do you know the dianabol was any good? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 The conclusions that some jumped to, or the inferences that they made, were in this case right. First came the suspicion, and now the evidence of guilt plus a confession. Who is next to own up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 (edited) removed Edited April 26, 2003 by Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 The point is I was right. It was not a lucky guess. It had nothing to do with his physique. I look more like a user than he does. There is such a thing as reading between the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnimalCage Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 First post... on page 14!! I know next to nothing about the subject, so I am only clarifying two points. First, for Sir Snott, I am 6' 1/2", and 265 lbs. I admit that Kaz looks a bit short in the photo, can't explain that. I will say we are both wide, but in different places. Weird, but I also look close in size to Lou Ferrigno. I keep meaning to bring that picture home to scan and post it. Same deal with the width. Second, I believe Mobster was refering to Monty Hall, not Bob Barker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Steve,Did you see that your other lifts went up during your cycle? If not how do you know the dianabol was any good? 'The point is I was right. It was not a lucky guess. It had nothing to do with his physique. I look more like a user than he does. There is such a thing as reading between the lines.' Lifts stayed the same. I added 7 pounds. Evidence of guilt? I think not. The information has been available for all to see on www.musclemob.com for WEEKS. No one asked me 'did u use?' and I never said I hadn't. Don't become boastful of being correct - after all that was never the arguement was it? But once again the point is being missed. It isn't and hasn't been about who is or who isn't. Its 'does some one using it when shutting a four become a bad guy'. I argued (based as you now know on personal experience) but it was one of 'does it make your grip better?' and can and did say no. the was no point to reading between the lines as much is there is still no point to be able to say so. It doesn't answer the original questions or better prove your view other than have u say 'oh but you would say that your are/were a user'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Lifts stayed the same. I added 7 pounds. Then I would take your experience with a grain of salt. If your squat went up 15% and your grip stayed the same it would have strongly supported your argument. As it is I would say that you got nothing from the drug but fluid retention. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 You took one form of steroids to gain size you claim. Based on this experience, you state that steroids do not improve grip strength. I am not talking about increasing muscle size. I am only saying that the effect of steroids is to increase your ability to train hard and at the same time speed up recovery. This must lead to an increase in grip strength if grip is being trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Lifts stayed the same. I added 7 pounds. We could maybe get another 10 pages out of this one... So you're saying that increased bodyweight doesn't increase the poundage lifted? BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 You took one form of steroids to gain size you claim. Based on this experience, you state that steroids do not improve grip strength. I am not talking about increasing muscle size. I am only saying that the effect of steroids is to increase your ability to train hard and at the same time speed up recovery. This must lead to an increase in grip strength if grip is being trained. Both of you are generalizing as much as I am. A better arguement for us all would be 'some steroids may increase strength', as opposed to 'steroids make you stronger and by default your grip'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Lifts stayed the same. I added 7 pounds. We could maybe get another 10 pages out of this one... So you're saying that increased bodyweight doesn't increase the poundage lifted? BC. Well, to mis-quote an earlier poster, water weight does not. Muscular weight might... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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