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Oldest Man To Close The #4 Coc.


moonraker182

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moonraker182

Does anybody know who the oldest man to close a COC # 4 is? Have any men in their 50s or 60s closed the #4?

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Check out the axle dead lift challenge!

Me, Paul, Mobster. There's 3. - Aaron

Josh Dale and Steve McGranahan also come to mind. I wanted to say Woodall as well, but I checked the contest I was thinking about and that was a BBSE he closed. I concede that "quite a few" is ambi

Cannon

Does anybody know who the oldest man to close a COC # 4 is? Have any men in their 50s or 60s closed the #4?

I think it has to Kinney and he was in his 40s I believe.

Possibly Big Steve at BBB, I have no idea how old he is.

Also Mobster, although he seems SOOO young. :)

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Florian Kellersmann

Does anybody know who the oldest man to close a COC # 4 is? Have any men in their 50s or 60s closed the #4?

I think it has to Kinney and he was in his 40s I believe.

Possibly Big Steve at BBB, I have no idea how old he is.

Also Mobster, although he seems SOOO young. :)

Hey, Mobster is a grandpa! :laugh

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Paul has the most grey hair of any 4 closers. :grin:

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Randall Strossen

Does anybody know who the oldest man to close a COC # 4 is? Have any men in their 50s or 60s closed the #4?

I think it has to Kinney and he was in his 40s I believe.

Possibly Big Steve at BBB, I have no idea how old he is.

Also Mobster, although he seems SOOO young. :)

Cannon -

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Here's the official list for closing a Captains of Crush No. 4 gripper and Joe Kinney was 40 or 41 when he made it:

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/captainsofcrush4.html

Everyone else was in his 20s or 30s, but if you are talking about touching the handles, however, I am 60 and can still do it with a WVS (Wilton Vise Set). I can't speak for them for sure, but Old Guy and Hub Geezer are roughly in my age group and I think they can do this, too.

Seriously, though, I think the right guy could legitimately close a CoC No. 4 while at least into his 50s, and maybe older, so all you younger guys, train hard and become the first one to do this!

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Cannon

I was thinking certified and in a contest. There are quite a few legitimate #4 contest closes.

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Legendofjd3

I was thinking certified and in a contest. There are quite a few legitimate #4 contest closes.

Huh? Name 3?

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acorn

I was thinking certified and in a contest. There are quite a few legitimate #4 contest closes.

Huh? Name 3?

Me, Paul, Mobster. There's 3.

- Aaron

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lifesnotfair

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Mr. Strossen, with all due respect, I think you know the answer to this. The Gripboard has now thousands of members and has existed for over 10 years I think. What EVERYONE counts as "closing it" is closing it from a MMS or wider. Surely you know what MMS is. Unlike your made-up term which I assume is a mockery towards any set other than the Credit Card Set, the MMS has been around for a loooong time. In fact the first guy to close the MM3 did it in early 2004 if I remember correctly. So every single Gripboard member (except perhaps a newbie who had never heard of itbefore) knows and acknowledges a parallel set as a valid set, therefore, a valid close.

I could be wrong, but making fun of the MMS here in the Gripboard where that set is seen as the "standard" just seems like a very strange thing to do, unless of course one is looking to cause some controversy. :D

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Cannon
I was thinking certified and in a contest. There are quite a few legitimate #4 contest closes.
Huh? Name 3?
Me, Paul, Mobster. There's 3. - Aaron

Josh Dale and Steve McGranahan also come to mind. I wanted to say Woodall as well, but I checked the contest I was thinking about and that was a BBSE he closed.

I concede that "quite a few" is ambitious, but the number at least equals those on the Ironmind list.

I don't know that anything needs to be made of the set used in either case. Bottom line is that all the closes, cert and contest, were performed according to the existing rules in place at the time. The feat was recorded as a legitimate close.

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lifesnotfair

I don't know that anything needs to be made of the set used in either case. Bottom line is that all the closes, cert and contest, were performed according to the existing rules in place at the time. The feat was recorded as a legitimate close.

If this true then contests with Grippers in Chokers should count too, as those were the rules at those contest! :D Didn't Chad close a #4 in a choker? Maybe Andrew as well? I could be mistaken about Andrew.

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Cannon
I don't know that anything needs to be made of the set used in either case. Bottom line is that all the closes, cert and contest, were performed according to the existing rules in place at the time. The feat was recorded as a legitimate close.
If this true then contests with Grippers in Chokers should count too, as those were the rules at those contest! :D Didn't Chad close a #4 in a choker? Maybe Andrew as well? I could be mistaken about Andrew.

I guess what I was getting at was that it's not like a credit card was inserted for any of the IM certs. They were just "closes" per the rules.

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Does anybody know who the oldest man to close a COC # 4 is? Have any men in their 50s or 60s closed the #4?

I think it has to Kinney and he was in his 40s I believe.

Possibly Big Steve at BBB, I have no idea how old he is.

Also Mobster, although he seems SOOO young. :)

Cannon -

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Here's the official list for closing a Captains of Crush No. 4 gripper and Joe Kinney was 40 or 41 when he made it:

http://www.ironmind....nsofcrush4.html

Everyone else was in his 20s or 30s, but if you are talking about touching the handles, however, I am 60 and can still do it with a WVS (Wilton Vise Set). I can't speak for them for sure, but Old Guy and Hub Geezer are roughly in my age group and I think they can do this, too.

Seriously, though, I think the right guy could legitimately close a CoC No. 4 while at least into his 50s, and maybe older, so all you younger guys, train hard and become the first one to do this!

So considering everyone on that list (except for Kinney) used the same set as those who closed it in a contest; are those on your list legitimate closers or not?

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bencrush

I was thinking certified and in a contest. There are quite a few legitimate #4 contest closes.

Huh? Name 3?

Josh Dale, Dave Morton, and Big Steve - all done in the Backyard Bastard Bash. Parallel set.

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climber511

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Mr. Strossen, with all due respect, I think you know the answer to this. The Gripboard has now thousands of members and has existed for over 10 years I think. What EVERYONE counts as "closing it" is closing it from a MMS or wider. Surely you know what MMS is. Unlike your made-up term which I assume is a mockery towards any set other than the Credit Card Set, the MMS has been around for a loooong time. In fact the first guy to close the MM3 did it in early 2004 if I remember correctly. So every single Gripboard member (except perhaps a newbie who had never heard of itbefore) knows and acknowledges a parallel set as a valid set, therefore, a valid close.

I could be wrong, but making fun of the MMS here in the Gripboard where that set is seen as the "standard" just seems like a very strange thing to do, unless of course one is looking to cause some controversy. :D

I have expressed my opinion on "sets" way too many times already to bother with that again. But I will say that Randall didn't call foul when we talked about the different sets including MMS on his IM Forum. He disagreed and argued like the devil for what he thought but that was all. I think it's only fair that he be allowed to express his opinion here - even if he is all wet :).

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Randall Strossen

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Mr. Strossen, with all due respect, I think you know the answer to this. The Gripboard has now thousands of members and has existed for over 10 years I think. What EVERYONE counts as "closing it" is closing it from a MMS or wider. Surely you know what MMS is. Unlike your made-up term which I assume is a mockery towards any set other than the Credit Card Set, the MMS has been around for a loooong time. In fact the first guy to close the MM3 did it in early 2004 if I remember correctly. So every single Gripboard member (except perhaps a newbie who had never heard of itbefore) knows and acknowledges a parallel set as a valid set, therefore, a valid close.

I could be wrong, but making fun of the MMS here in the Gripboard where that set is seen as the "standard" just seems like a very strange thing to do, unless of course one is looking to cause some controversy. :D

Sorry about that Arturo—I thought you guys only did deep sets for your Mash Monster certs so that's why I made the comment. I'm new here and didn't realize that you counted them for other grippers—the Captains of Crush certification program was started in 1991 and we follow a different set of rules, which is why Cannon's comment caught my eye.

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Cannon

Randall, I'm not sure what you're saying caught your eye?

Maybe you can describe the difference between Dave Morton's #4 cert close and Dave Morton's contest #4 close.

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Randall Strossen

Big Steve or Mobster? What are you counting as closing it?

Mr. Strossen, with all due respect, I think you know the answer to this. The Gripboard has now thousands of members and has existed for over 10 years I think. What EVERYONE counts as "closing it" is closing it from a MMS or wider. Surely you know what MMS is. Unlike your made-up term which I assume is a mockery towards any set other than the Credit Card Set, the MMS has been around for a loooong time. In fact the first guy to close the MM3 did it in early 2004 if I remember correctly. So every single Gripboard member (except perhaps a newbie who had never heard of itbefore) knows and acknowledges a parallel set as a valid set, therefore, a valid close.

I could be wrong, but making fun of the MMS here in the Gripboard where that set is seen as the "standard" just seems like a very strange thing to do, unless of course one is looking to cause some controversy. :D

I have expressed my opinion on "sets" way too many times already to bother with that again. But I will say that Randall didn't call foul when we talked about the different sets including MMS on his IM Forum. He disagreed and argued like the devil for what he thought but that was all. I think it's only fair that he be allowed to express his opinion here - even if he is all wet :).

Sorry that I haven't figured out how to do the multi-quote thing, but let me try to reply to a couple of comments anyway—this is a good chance for me to learn some new stuff, so I appreciate everyone's patience.

Many thanks for your concern, climber511, but I am guessing that we have a very different culture and set of rules at the IronMind forum than here, and you know what they say about when in Rome, so, I'm here to participate by Gripboard rules and principles, not IronMind's and nudging me along the right path is the correct thing to do.

The basic debate here is that I thought IronMind had a clear definition of officially closing a Captains of Crush gripper but then I found out that, from what Cannon and Arturo said, you guys use a different one—that was surprising and confusing to me, especially since I'm guessing Arturo at least wouldn't like it if someone claimed some level of MM status based on using a WVS.

Re: Dave's close in a contest, sorry, but I don't know the details—on his certification attempt, though, he followed the CoC rules we all know and love. :)

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Wannagrip

Well, in my opinion, there are training closes and contest closes with certain rules. And, then there is the IM certification. So, I think the closes should be described as such and not lumped all together.

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Randall Strossen

Well, in my opinion, there are training closes and contest closes with certain rules. And, then there is the IM certification. So, I think the closes should be described as such and not lumped all together.

Yes, absolutely, full disclosure is always good, but it gets sticky because the full part can erode or disappear as the reports of the feat get reported (especially over time).

So, for example, there's always a heated debate about whether or not to even list the guys who lifted the Dinnie Stones with straps; and how about the guy who said he lifted them, but it turned out that he had used a harness (!). Often, the qualifying comments get dropped and some people just repeat that so-and-so lifted the Dinnie Stones, which I feel isn't true since it was not done in the spirit and tradition of the original feat of strength. That's the crux of the issue here: the spirit and tradition, not to mention the rules, for closing a Captains of Crush gripper.

IronMind began it's gripper certification program in 1991 and I think the next certification was the Gripboard's MM about a decade later (someone here could provide the exact year when MM certifications began). Since then, enough others have jumped on the bandwagon to rival powerlifting on a small scale, each different from the next in some way.

Besides full disclosure, I wonder if it would be reasonable to respect the rules associated with each certification when discussing who closed what?

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bencrush
Well, in my opinion, there are training closes and contest closes with certain rules. And, then there is the IM certification. So, I think the closes should be described as such and not lumped all together.
Yes, absolutely, full disclosure is always good, but it gets sticky because the full part can erode or disappear as the reports of the feat get reported (especially over time). So, for example, there's always a heated debate about whether or not to even list the guys who lifted the Dinnie Stones with straps; and how about the guy who said he lifted them, but it turned out that he had used a harness (!). Often, the qualifying comments get dropped and some people just repeat that so-and-so lifted the Dinnie Stones, which I feel isn't true since it was not done in the spirit and tradition of the original feat of strength. That's the crux of the issue here: the spirit and tradition, not to mention the rules, for closing a Captains of Crush gripper. IronMind began it's gripper certification program in 1991 and I think the next certification was the Gripboard's MM about a decade later (someone here could provide the exact year when MM certifications began). Since then, enough others have jumped on the bandwagon to rival powerlifting on a small scale, each different from the next in some way. Besides full disclosure, I wonder if it would be reasonable to respect the rules associated with each certification when discussing who closed what?

The few well known gripper certifications are well respected among people who train their grip. Ironmind's Credit Card Set (CCS) cert is even well respected around the Gripboard. It's very noticeable when you scan through the training log area and just the general comments from guys who are training CCS for an eventual cert attempt on the #3.

Even guys who train exclusively (or almost) Mash Monster Set (MMS - or parallel set) usually have great respect for the CCS. They understand that it's harder than using a parallel set. I have never heard someone un-jokingly refute that fact concerning CCS vs MMS closes.

They're about as different as night and day. And that's a good thing. Variety is the Allspice of grip training life after all. :grin:

I think what some are gently referring to is the fact that at least two of the certified #4 closers (Dave Morton and Tommy Heslep) did their cert (according to the then-current Ironmind rules of course) with a set that was much narrower than a Credit Card Set. And those certs are quite respected, as are the guys who earned them. I'm not leaving out Magnus or Joe Kinney by accident. Joe's was reportedly done from @ CCS distance and I don't know about Magnus's close - but it was probably a wider set than the then-current rules allowed too. So, to get back to the point - what makes current parallel set closes completely unremarkable to you compared to essentially the same (parallel on my #4s has been about 3/4" vs. the "old" IM rule of about 1") distance set done some years back with a #4?

I like to compares apples to apples, not apples to oranges. So that's why I - and most knowledgeable grip trainers here - specify exactly what set was used when we talk about closing grippers. A lot of us can close a #4 if the handles are super close together and hoseclamped there. Handle flex alone can make a #4 hoseclamped to 1/4" feel not much harder than a #3. But of course I don't regard myself as a #4 closer just because I can flex the handles when they're super close together. I've closed a few #4s that were hoseclamped at parallel. I STILL don't consider myself a #4 closer. It's the full disclosure thing at work again. Now, if I had SET the handles to parallel and THEN closed any of those #4s - I would consider myself a #4 closer. According to the Mash Monster rules, not the current Ironmind rules of course. But again, I would disclose the set distance and then would start working on getting closes with the #4 from a wider set. Until eventually getting a CCS close on it.

I do understand that you don't consider someone a legitimate closer of any gripper if they don't do it according to the current Ironmind rules (or no set). Or at least that's what I've come to "think" I know from interacting with you on the Ironmind forum. Not trying to put words in your mouth here.

My definition of a legitimate close though is any close performed to the rules of whatever cert or any arbitrary distance set that the user is trying for. If a guy is doing hoseclamped closes with the gripper handles 1/8" apart - if he closes it then it's a "legitimate" close in his training log. That doesn't mean he expects people to jump on his bandwagon and say "great close man!" Just that for his training purposes, that was a legitimate close.

Now for me, personally - I consider several set distances when I think about "legitimate" closes. Some are just because I'm fond of them - the CCS cert comes to mind, for obvious reasons! ;) MMS or parallel set is another that I'm quite fond of doing in training. No set is another that I've trained a lot over the years. Newer set distances (for me) are the various block sets that are appearing more and more frequently in grip contests - 20mm, 30mm, etc. In my training I have done the other arbitrary distances that I mentioned - especially when it comes to hoseclamps. But I never kept track of my personal records (PRs) in those because they were just training closes that were done to help me get to one of the other various sets that I mentioned are important to me.

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Wannagrip

"Besides full disclosure, I wonder if it would be reasonable to respect the rules associated with each certification when discussing who closed what? "

I would hope that is being done here on the GripBoard...which really was what I was trying to convey.

To be honest, I think if someone closes the #4 under the current IM rules, they would be the all time king of the IM gripper certs until someone else does.

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lifesnotfair

Mr. Strossen,

I would have assumed everything I'm about to say you already know, but lets say you don't, then I'll just try to help! :)

Since 2003 when the Mash Monster certs begun people have used the term "MMS" (Mash Monster Set) which is a parallel set. A clear video is required and 3 judges carefully examine the video. Yes, MM certifications have failed due to "Deep sets". But here lies a problem I see in your writings: you seem to use the term Deep Sets for anything shorter than a Credit Card Set (CCS for short). While you are free to do that in your IM Forum, in here I'm not sure it's correct (and you said yourself, "When in Rome"....). In these boards I think a set that is too deep, would have to be narrower than parallel. So perhaps the Gripboard's definition of "deep set" is different from yours, or Ironminds. To help not make this a problem in the future, perhaps you can refer to these closes as using a Parallel Set or a MMS. These have been used for the MM process, and also for many contests.

So let me be super clear: many contests around the USA have used different sets! Some have used the very popular MMS. Others have used a 20mm wooden block. And others used Choked Grippers! In your terminoly you might unite all of the above and call them all "deep sets" but that will cause confusion, it's best to use the proper terminology. If someone closes a gripper with a 20mm block because those were the competition's rules... it just sounds bad if people then go around saying "Oh yeah, he closed it but he DEEP SETTED it". It just doesn't sound good.

All this said, let me just add I have a lot of respect for your company and products! It's all in good intention. It just tickled me the wrong way that you'd come here and mention some made-up set; that seemed like an attempt at diminishing the very valid (in Gripboard's eyes) closes of some of the gripsters, and that's just not cool.

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Jordan Rechsteiner

There are some good points here. I feel for myself that I have learned something. I consider a parallel set a handle's distance or slightly greater (around 20mm but eyeballed and not blocked set). If it is less than this and eyeballed I call it a deep set. However, if it is less than the distance of the handles and I use say a 10mm block placed between the handles then I don't call that a deep set, but instead refer to it as a 10mm block set. If I significantly set it wider in my training than MMS or 20mm and I don't block set it I have been known to divulge approximations which may be sloppy of me. For example, I might say that was around 30mm when I don't use a 30mm block or 40mm when I don't use one of those. However, I am very specific on larger distances and if I say "45mm" it always means that I used my 45mm block which to me if I can get a 45mm block set on a gripper I can CCS that gripper quite easily because 45mm is that magic swing distance for my hand. :) If I use a wider block I will either give a standard measurement such as 2 and 5/8" or I will say 60mm if I use the 60mm block. However, with a monster gripper like a Captians of Crush #4 I think anyone who closes it outside of a choker where the off-hand does not set it all the way to the other handle and then leaves for the closing hand to do its work, and the handles touch is in my mind, a #4 closer. I don't care if you set it to 2mm and then closed it. Incidentally, I have not to my memory seen a 2mm set with a #4 but if I did, that would be a monster setter.If someone can close the #4 from an MMS or greater that is world class. These are my thoughts and in the future, I will tighten up my exact terminology and be even specific. :)

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