Cannon Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Mushin no shin (null) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoggoth Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Mushin no shin (null) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin Zactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Does anyone hook their thumbs during the lift? Or does everyone keep them straight down on the plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Does anyone hook their thumbs during the lift? Or does everyone keep them straight down on the plates? My thumbs are bent some and actually touch on the sides more so than on the "pads". I watch for these things and many people seem to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Good info. Thanks Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm not an expert pincher, but in regards to the narrow pinches and hurting fingers. I have noticed that when I pinch narrow my fingers are crimping like in a poorly executed fingertip pushup. Perhaps the same is happening to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 my thumbs are hooked a little. maybe about 45 degress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 something I've noticed is that I have quite a gap between my thumb web and the plates as soon as I start to pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah, thanks for posting that Brent. I've been working a lot more with hand position and was planning a blog post about it tonight. I will post a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 matt, when you say that you gain too much ground with your fingers do you mean that after placing the thumbs you allow them to slide up and forward as you place your fingers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 matt, when you say that you gain too much ground with your fingers do you mean that after placing the thumbs you allow them to slide up and forward as you place your fingers? No, they mostly stay put, but as I walk my fingers over the other side, my skin stretches and fingers get farther down than is necessary. In other words, just because I can reach that far doesn't mean I should. It never occurred to me before. That's what I was trying to descibe in my blog. I think some of these setup ergonomics come natural to some, but apparently not to me. I worked with this for a while last night. And had some really promising results. I tried setting up by first making my hand the shape I wanted, and then sliding it on to the plates, both sides fingers/thumb at once. From there I would bear down and lift. Felt like a much better grip. If I messed with my setup too much ON the plates my fingers almost immediately get way forward from my thumb. I did some light 2HP and heavy 1HP in this manner and one big difference was the relief to my thumb webbing. Even immediately after the workout there was no evidence I had done a pinch workout. None of the usual tearing. The 52mm width helped I'm sure, but I could also tell the way I used to plant my thumb and then stretch my fingers over the other side would tax the thumb web to the limit. No wonder it tore so readily. I wanted to ask about thumb placement again. When you guys say your thumbs are at an angle, the whole straight finger is at an angle, right. As in the thumb joint is not bent, but the finger itself is at an angle other than vertical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 something I've noticed is that I have quite a gap between my thumb web and the plates as soon as I start to pull. What are your thoughts about that gap? Doesn't matter or it means you could have a better setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 That "gap" develops in what I called "2nd position" when I wrote about it. If you put your hands on the plates and start to pull - the flesh moves and the gap develops. At this point you are down onto the thumb a little as Jedd describes it and not way up into the joint as in the start. This is what I at least want to happen - I ease my way into the "second position" without starting to actually pull super hard and then I squeeze and do the lift. This is really hard to put into words - I know what I am trying to say and it is still confusing when I read it. In my case at least my thumb pads are not really on the plates - my thumb joints are bent and the thumbs are about as much on the sides as on the pads themselves - this I feel is a limiting factor for me - that inability to get more surface area onto the plates on the thumb side.. It's much easier to show this than explain it in words. In it's simplest terms - just squeeze harder :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Makes sense Chris. I noticed that happen to me too. If I try to preload the slippage or start the lift with the hand at the finishing position I end up with a lower weight max effort. So far the best I can do is grip the way I naturally want to and let a little slip happen. When nearing a max effort the slippage causes tears but normally in a contest I can get in the 4 lifts before i'm beat to hell. I will try what Chris describes on the way he starts tension at the beginning of the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes, Chris, it made sense to me too. (Assuming what I understood is correct, but it seemed clear.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I haven't had a single cut or tear since I figured this out - at least at my personal width - I get some pulling when I go a lot wider but that's to be expected I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I haven't had a single cut or tear since I figured this out - at least at my personal width - I get some pulling when I go a lot wider but that's to be expected I think. Yeah, this was huge for me. It seriously felt weird to make my little sock puppet hand (might not make sense if you don't read my blog) and slide it over the plates. But the load on the thumb was totally different. I honestly felt like I was capable of "squeezing the plates harder" instead of "latching my thumb harder" if that makes any sense. Before, everything hinged on the exact spot where my thumb went over the edge of the plate. It either latched and held or let loose and tore. Aaaaaand, time to train and turn any of this into an actual gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think for my part that the gap is simply a result of changing tension. I don't feel that my hands move at all. i do feel that I am setting up in what your calling second position though. I'll try to get some more video next time and see what I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I get that slight slip on takeoff. I start low on the edge to where the base thumb bone is kind of on it but it slips a bit and makes notcontact in the air, like the vid of the gap brent showed. I learned to live with it as the best way to max out. But as chris mentioned there may be a way around it. I wont test it though until a week after the cactus comp. Not gonna change things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Some thoughts from my workout last night. * I did a total of 40 reps working from 40% of my max up to 95% of my max. Most of the reps were in the 60-85% of max range. After all this work, and some missed max effort attempts, there was not even a hint of tearing at 52mm. * I put my hands at more of an angle. I have realized that they were previously fairly vertical on the plates. I really liked what this added. It seemed to really get my ring and pinkie fingers of both hands more involved. * Another thing I tried was to set up my hands close enough that my index fingers were touching. The index fingers kind of make a "V" on the plates because the angle of my hands. I would set up my right and then add the left so that the tips of my index fingers were tightly packed against each other. The additional compression I got from the fingers touching seemed to add something. Almost like a "bracing" effect for both hands against each other. I will continue to play with this as well; I liked it. One thing that bothers me is tracking progress. The seasoning on my plates has changed so many times and the width has changed so many times that I'm not sure where my numbers should be. For example, 160# is the most I've ever pulled on MY plates. They were poorly seasoned and this was at 58mm. Since then I've totally stripped off the seasoning TWICE because I wasn't happy with the results. And now I'm pinching at a different width. I could not lift 155# last night although it budged. Seasoning is much better on the plates right now, I think, so I don't know whether to be happy or unhappy that I couldn't match was I have pulled before. In the back of my mind, this is kind of what I'm striving for--to match what I've pulled on MY plates to know that I'm on the right track with seasoning, width, and hand placement. Next heavy workout I will probably try 54mm to keep dialing this in. My ultimate goal is to futz around with this until I pull a PR on my plates and don't tear my thumbs during the lift. At that point I will forge ahead with that width and hand placement and assume that seasoning discrepancies are null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Excellent notes Matt. The index finger packing is an interesting idea. I angle the hands in a natural way, as the arms angle in from shoulders to where I grab the device. But I leave a wide gap, ~2". I can't wait to try your note and Chris's about easing into the tension on liftoff. Great thread guys. Lots of ideas being shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcx6pmw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm one of the world's worst pinchers, so have read this thread with interest. My problem has always been that I get slippage at the start, even on reasonably comfortable weights. I usually go at 58mm, but have had some recent success doing light holds and reps at 48mm, which perhaps works the palms more. This seems to have carried over well to the thicker widths and now I'm getting less slippage. Matt I sent you a pm on DH's forum about some of this stuff a while back when I read your blog post. Not sure if you saw it as it's not always obvious when you have a pm on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hey Paul, I'll go find that PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I decided next workout I'm going to do the exact same warm-ups and progression as the previous workout except at 54mm. Since I have notes about the sets and the workout is fresh in my mind, I should be able to make a good comparison between the two widths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Matt, you really hung up on this, have you tried any assistance exersizes? How about contacting other top 50 lifters for their hand sizes and body weights? That may help out. Also how long do you actually stick with a width before you get discouraged and decide to switch up? Parris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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