functionalpower Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Mr. Siversson, thank you for your criticism! I came across extensor work just like Mr. Reinard, trying to relieve my tendon pain from climbing on small holds (haven't then been grip training in a strict sense though), and this was the only thing that worked, so I think highly of it. Tommy Hesleps notion on the importance of extensor training is taken from this "lessons learned thread" (p.1) which I find a highly instructive read for the beginner (so hopefully not too off-topic): http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=15511 I am aware of others though, like Mr. Knight e.g., saying that extensor training did not help them greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Go to the jungle in west Africa, find a Silverback, walk up to him and grab hold of his hand and, while staring him down, give him a quick, firm squeeze just so he understands that extensor work is serious stuff. Seriously, evolution does not produce great muscle strength in extensor muscles unless there is a need for it. You should trust Mother Nature. Grip strength, understandably, is one of the hardest areas to improve in. I am yet to come across a female, with no grip training whatsoever, who cannot 2HP more than 1/4 of the WR for men (twice their size). Can these untrained ladies deadlift 100k+ or benchpress 80k? Of course not. Why should you work your extensors? There is a million examples in the animal kingdom where muscle groups working in the opposite direction are at very different levels strength-wise. A crocodile's jaw muscles for example. Apes and monkeys don't train their extensors but yet they work their grip hard. Who do you trust, a chimpanzee or Brookfield? ... also work your extensors, Brookfield AND Heslep can't be wrong on that. A big part of it is for muscle balance—it's kind of like the lifters who get back aches not because their lumbars are weak, but because their abs are, and the tennis elbow stuff alone makes a little extensor work one of the highest ROI forms of training a grip guy can do: this is low intensity stuff you can do anywhere and the payoff can be huge. IMHO If Brookfield, Heslep and Strossen agree on something, it must be true—even if less evolved members of the animal kingdom haven't quite caught onto this yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Mr. Siversson, thank you for your criticism! I came across extensor work just like Mr. Reinard, trying to relieve my tendon pain from climbing on small holds (haven't then been grip training in a strict sense though), and this was the only thing that worked, so I think highly of it. Tommy Hesleps notion on the importance of extensor training is taken from this "lessons learned thread" (p.1) which I find a highly instructive read for the beginner (so hopefully not too off-topic): http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=15511 I am aware of others though, like Mr. Knight e.g., saying that extensor training did not help them greatly. Glad to see another climber around here Thorsten. And glad to hear you have an effective means to keep elbow pain away during intense climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The animal kingdom is always very unforgiving with use, abuse, and age. An animal is made to just reproduce while it can then expire (with exceptions here and there of course). Nature is very unforgiving to injuries, and really outside of humans the animal kingdom is not know for using progressive overload in specific movement patterns. So, unless you plan on never training your grip and getting eaten when you get injured, the animal model poorly translates to people. Mikael, you usually think things through better than this! I have no argument either way about the usefullness of extensor training, but this whole chain of thought does not make any sense. In fact, I asked my dog today about whether I should pay off debt now or put more into savings, and she didn't really have anything intelligent to say on the subject. On second thought, the dog has never put anything into retirement! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I trained before my break that I have now, 3 days a week. Pinch and wrist twice and crush 3 times a week...next cycle will see on how I train coming up lol! Experiment and learn what' s best for you. I'm learning all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
functionalpower Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thank you Mr. Reinard! There seem to be quite a few climbers 'round here, which is nice! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Finger Tendon Pulley Injuries, I so far only encountered in only two distinct groups of individuals, one being 5.11-upward climbers using full crimp hand position on small edges and the other grippsters doing severe negatives on heavy grippers too early - unfortunately I count myself into both groups. Because the thread starter said he wanted to do negatives on a machine being at presumably sub-COC#2-level in the positive movement, I felt it my obligation to at least tell him about extensor work. I take my rubber bands over surgical Carpal tunnel Release or a 2-month climbing hiatus anytime. I do not advocate it religously, however I think keeping your grip training balanced is key for good health and good progress likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Wow, you learn something new every day. That's one thing I like about the Gripboard. The animal kingdom is always very unforgiving with use, abuse, and age. An animal is made to just reproduce while it can then expire (with exceptions here and there of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Strossen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The animal kingdom is always very unforgiving with use, abuse, and age. An animal is made to just reproduce while it can then expire (with exceptions here and there of course). Nature is very unforgiving to injuries, and really outside of humans the animal kingdom is not know for using progressive overload in specific movement patterns. So, unless you plan on never training your grip and getting eaten when you get injured, the animal model poorly translates to people. Mikael, you usually think things through better than this! I have no argument either way about the usefullness of extensor training, but this whole chain of thought does not make any sense. In fact, I asked my dog today about whether I should pay off debt now or put more into savings, and she didn't really have anything intelligent to say on the subject. On second thought, the dog has never put anything into retirement! Bob - But which way was your dog's leg pointing when you asked the question? I understand that makes all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Strossen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thank you Mr. Reinard! There seem to be quite a few climbers 'round here, which is nice! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Finger Tendon Pulley Injuries, I so far only encountered in only two distinct groups of individuals, one being 5.11-upward climbers using full crimp hand position on small edges and the other grippsters doing severe negatives on heavy grippers too early - unfortunately I count myself into both groups. Because the thread starter said he wanted to do negatives on a machine being at presumably sub-COC#2-level in the positive movement, I felt it my obligation to at least tell him about extensor work. I take my rubber bands over surgical Carpal tunnel Release or a 2-month climbing hiatus anytime. I do not advocate it religously, however I think keeping your grip training balanced is key for good health and good progress likewise. I just got off the phone with yet another guy who is nursing injuries that are crimping his lifestyle not to mention wreaking havoc with his training—he had been tons of negatives in his grip work and he's beat up from the elbows to the fingertips. Guys who have been here for years know IronMind's and my history of publicizing Joe Kinney's training philosophy plus sharing (and defending when necessary) his successes, but I think overuse of negatives is not the way to go on grip training (or any other form of strength training that I can think of). It can help produce a round of progress, but it's also the king at producing soreness and is potentially the most likely to lead to injuries. I say stay positive, focus on the full range of motion, keep an eye on muscle balance and recovery; so this idea of maintaining balance gets my vote, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Do extensions. It's the cheapest form of grip too...get a big rubber band at an office supply and you are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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