Road To Coc#4 - Time To Get This Done!

[Alawadhi]

1 hour ago, Grind said:

Insane strong #3.5 CCS slowly controlled close. Axle is also world level, crazy strong.
Why don't you ignore the haters it's not worth the energy I would think. 

Just to clear things. I am not a hater of Paul. There was attack on my friend Juha using easy plates now and long before you joined the board less than a year back. I was and still am supporting grip sports worldwide. We want to see the truth. Second I or anyone who PMed me here or Facebook already said, and I agree, that if you claim any world class feat you should provide a proof. There is no other option if you wanna respect the rules. Saying you can break the Silver Bullet record IS world class. What did people here say? Just provide proof. If you get angry by providing proof then something is wrong. And if you Grind support this type of behaviour here I say think again. Gripboard rules says a world class feat must be presented. Don't come here and say haters when you don't know what is going on and what eent on before you joined the board. I really would love to see Paul doing all these feats. Hence my offer. But unfortunately he didn't take it for his reasons and I respect it no problem

[Grind]

21 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

Just to clear things. I am not a hater of Paul. There was attack on my friend Juha using easy plates now and long before you joined the board less than a year back. I was and still am supporting grip sports worldwide. We want to see the truth. Second I or anyone who PMed me here or Facebook already said, and I agree, that if you claim any world class feat you should provide a proof. There is no other option if you wanna respect the rules. Saying you can break the Silver Bullet record IS world class. What did people here say? Just provide proof. If you get angry by providing proof then something is wrong. And if you Grind support this type of behaviour here I say think again. Gripboard rules says a world class feat must be presented. Don't come here and say haters when you don't know what is going on and what eent on before you joined the board. I really would love to see Paul doing all these feats. Hence my offer. But unfortunately he didn't take it for his reasons and I respect it no problem

My post was not addressed to you personally hence the fact that I did not quote your post. As you clearly say that there are numerous people in the grip community that seem to have a problem with Paul. 
What I can say about your post is that I think we all got your message. You don't need to repeat it over and over again. 
Just as Brannstrom says it's just an opinion if you don't like it you can always choose to ignore it. 

[The Mac]

56 minutes ago, Peter Brannstrom said:

I've tried the longest to steer clear of this, but, I just can't help myself...

First off, I understand I have absolutely NO WEIGHT to chime in here onthis board (or even in life in general ). But, I can't see this travesty go on and not at least say something... 
Secondly, I have only the highest of respect and opinion of just about everyone on this board, so, I actually don't want to, and sure as hell don't see any reason to, step on peoples toes, but, it seems like it is something that is just generally nowadays just about the easiest thing to do, write something like "nice bro" and you can be either attacked viciously due to someone (for some weird reason, most likely on his period at the moment and all the Ben&Jerry's is already eaten) taking it like a sarcastic insulting comment full of malicious intent and just getting their panties up their penile hole...so, enough about that, I am not here to bash anyone...

I would just like to see people coming around to actually starting to BELIEVE IN A MANS WORD for (bad word filter)s sake?!?!?!? what is wrong with everyone???

Like, to be honest, for one thing, sure, to say that Mr.X is training/lifting/videoing with "easy"plates is maybe something that will get people riled up, but, hey, it is just an opinion (if even that) formed on the basis of ones own opinion, I see nothing worse in that than someone saying; "yeah, sure, nice close, it sure was smashed close, but, what is the rating on that gripper" in regards to any number of gripper-vids out there where the person is using an unrated gripper, IT IS JUST TRAINING MAN!!!

But, back to the important part of my (probably) incredibly LOOOOONG rant... to have faith in a mans word... if you can not have faith in a mans word, how in the hell are you then EVER going to know if something is in one way or another unless you take the trip to the person you are "investigating" (i.e. bashing) and stay with them for? for arguments sake let's say...hmmm...at least for ~3months or so?
You'd need to let them have a chance to peak at whatever thing you don't trust in them ever having done (could be something they've done at their absolute best) and then you'd have to have them have the same (or better) cirucmstances leading up to it all... and then, you'd have to have them travel back in time to once again experience their younger self regarding recovery and so on...

Can you see my point here??? unless you CHOOSE to believe in a mans word regarding something you can never really know ANYTHING!!!
Video for proof??? well, that is just shit
judges for proof??? also shit, why would you believe in them anymore than the other guy??? people can be bought if for nothing else, people are biased as hell (as you all know).

I'll say let's just focus on bettering ourselves, take inspiration from other guys excelling, belive in a mans word and train hard??? I mean, if someone goes thru the trouble of faking a lot of shit for nothing but internet "fame" (as much fame as might come from grip-related stuff anyways) well, so let it be??? I mean, if someone says they can TNS #4 (once again, just to make sure no misunderstandings is happening, I understand no such claims has been made, at leat not in this thread ), I'd sure as hell would want to see it, but, I see no reason to not believe that person for no reason at all. I'd just take his word for it (if I feel it is reasonable) and just (bad word filter)ing get PSYCHED about that happening, adding fuel to my own workouts, adding strength to my beliefs about human potential and just generally inspire the shit ut of me!!!

Sure, if a stickfigure-like person (like myself) that I've heard nothing about and not gotten at least a glance in to this persons training one day just sent me a message on facebook saying "hey man, I've TNSd #4, it was easy" I'd say I would most likely doubt that claim... but, I would like to see people getting back once again to a point where an persons word ACTUALLY MEANS something again...

If for nothing else the simple fact that without that it is very hard to actually give serious and "hard" proof to anything... in my opinion at least... I mean, sure, you can go to lengths making sure everything is as equal as possible, that is a good thing, and I applaude it, such as the MM-ladder and such, that is great!!!
but, even with that???
first off, it is video, and, to be honest, there is a lot that can be done already there to fake stuff, IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO (but why the hell would you want to do that?!?!?!) 
secondly, sure, it is the same gripper getting shipped around, but, what if some dirt ends up caught in the spring for one person??? adding say 2lbs (which on that day ends up being exactly the amount needed to fail) that said dirt then pops out as the gripper is being released after that last tear-ful fail???
Not trying to bash anything here, just trying to point out the futility of trying to prove stuff...

sorry for the rant, all I really wanted to say was that, I for one, am happy for all the inspiration that everyone is offering up thru their respective training logs, and, I would just like to see people be at least close to as supportive as they are to going for the kill for no apparent reason. Would hate to NOT being able to follow for instance Pauls training (or any one else for that matter) over here for just some random bickering about this and that...

once again, sorry for this, had a lot more to say, but, somewhere enough is enough... dinner is calling

Kind regards 
/peter

Peter,

 

For better or worse a lot of this has been building up for YEARS....so if some of this doesn't make "sense" then, believe me, hang around here for long enough and it well might.

 

Paul, you should take that bet - if nothing else that money might help you pay off some of the other lifting bets you have made.

[Paul Savage]

59 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

Just to clear things. I am not a hater of Paul. There was attack on my friend Juha using easy plates now and long before you joined the board less than a year back. I was and still am supporting grip sports worldwide. We want to see the truth. Second I or anyone who PMed me here or Facebook already said, and I agree, that if you claim any world class feat you should provide a proof. There is no other option if you wanna respect the rules. Saying you can break the Silver Bullet record IS world class. What did people here say? Just provide proof. If you get angry by providing proof then something is wrong. And if you Grind support this type of behaviour here I say think again. Gripboard rules says a world class feat must be presented. Don't come here and say haters when you don't know what is going on and what eent on before you joined the board. I really would love to see Paul doing all these feats. Hence my offer. But unfortunately he didn't take it for his reasons and I respect it no problem

It wasn't so much an attack on Juha but more some frustration coming out and simply having an opinion in that you shouldn't make the feat easier and call it the same feat as it's not imo, however this was after Juha for no apparent reason had attacked me. I had not said a single bad word about him prior too this, the opposite in fact, and had never mentioned anything about the plates he had used / had congradualted him on his feats a bunch of times.

[Paul Savage]

26 minutes ago, The Mac said:

Peter,

 

For better or worse a lot of this has been building up for YEARS....so if some of this doesn't make "sense" then, believe me, hang around here for long enough and it well might.

 

Paul, you should take that bet - if nothing else that money might help you pay off some of the other lifting bets you have made.

I have no idea about what's been building up or anything about it. You mean the £50 log lift bet on sugden? I was going to pay even though was told i shouldnt but nobody seemed to care, probably because of how i couldnt even attempt to train for it due to shoulder injury straight after the bet that lasted all year almost.

[mobsterone]

Regarding the use of 'easy' plates. I'm reminded of a 'cheaters' post Clay Edgin put up some years back. In it he admitted to going out of his way to find the easiest stuff top bend, fold and so on. The argument regarding the use of very thin and indeed very expensive plates is valid. If we look back through our Iron Game history to see a story of someone two hand pinching 200lbs (Mac Batchelor I think) - he used two plates and put a stool leg through them to get the lift. We can guess at the thickness of the 100lb plates he must have used. Will the thickness be more than say my own preference for 42-44mm thick on an adjustable Euro set up? I'd hazards the answer is yes.  

So when we KNOW of a few grip guys who have posted photos and videos of their recent and really quite expensive purchases of thin high quality and extremely accurate plates then the view it can be looked at in that context is valid. They ARE still picking up 5 or 6 plates, or 3 x 20kg plates or whatever. But they've made it so as to suit them when they splashed the cash. There's no way a rough set of randomly picked 5 x 10 or 3 x 20 plates can't be more impressive.

Regarding a mans word - f**k that, Seriously. Ever since the whole Kim and John Wood 'word is bond' fiasco... and never mind Timmy the spring torcher / stamper comic book story telling which ALL GB members ought to be well aware of. We're talking about ego here - men's fragile male ego's to boot. Either show AND tell or I'll just take whatever you have to say, at best, as a gym lift and that's being kind. The world is full of guys who are mad strong in the gym - our best example is Chris James. But who, like Paul, I've beaten on the platform. They're both strong ass dudes. I agree with Paul regarding reading his training log and being fired up to train harder. But I'll point out that few of the very best guys in this sport make public their training numbers so regularly. David Horne doesn't. I long ago stopped feeding my competitors info on my competition training numbers. 

You can, all GB members (indeed any strength forum) choose to compete or not. To keep an online diary or not. If your numbers creep into world class or better then be prepared to be questioned. It's the price you paid for entry to the elite.

[Mikael Siversson]

No one has denied that quality plates of a given weight are easier to pinch than low quality plates with an uneven rim. However when you belittle feats very few have or can achieve and at the same time claim phenomenal strength (eg one hand pinch lifting three wide 15k plates) you better be prepared to back it up, in front of other competitors if questioned. If Paul had b.... big enough (and budget) he would jump on a plane to Finland and show Juha how it is done in Juha's own backyard.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[Paul Savage]

I never belittled anybodys feats and as said, had congradualted juha on a bunch of his lifts prior to him attacking me, never saying a single word about the plates being used. With that said, here's the thing, they are, as steve has touched upon, expensive. Now, i don't personally recall, and this could just be not remembering, but i don't personally recall of anyone simply saying 'yeah it's easier, that's why i used these plates' but being honest about it, it costs £336 plus shipping to get four 10kg elieko plates, a heck of a lot of money to spend when considering you could easily find a gym somewhere near you that has four standard size, standard fit 10kg plates, or maybe 25lb for americans. Even if you went the gym 10 times to train for it, if you were not already a member, that's still only going to cost you £25-40, so ranging from £0-40 vs £336 plus shipping, and that's just for one single pinch feat. Unless you just had an absolute fortune with money to burn, i can't see any possible reason for someone to do this without it being because they can only do it on those plates. Also add in the fact that no other plates have been done in 4 10kg or 2 25kg etc with a number of people lifting those kind of plates, and it's pretty obvious the reason for using them.

The reason i said something, other than the attack on me was really because if you are going to claim 'first person in the world' to do a weight in a lift, it shouldn't be using weights that are actually easier than 99% if not 100% of the other weights out there, and that past people have never had access to or tried. That to me is not doing the same thing, which should have been noted when presenting the feat, not claiming to be the first in the world to do the blanket feat. Again, i tried to do 4 10kg lift for years, which was on probably thinner than average plates, certainly thinner than most of the fat 10kg plates we get here so certainly thin to us, which has been noted in videos of them, but still legit plates which i had not even bought to pinch, nevermind to make anything easier. I got to the point where i could do up near 40kg with weights tied to three 10kg disks using two fingers, and passing the 3 10kg around my back 20 times, but still never lifted the 4 10kg even a few inch off the ground (because it was so wide and they didnt fit perfect). After trying for this feat in a legit way for years and despite all efforts still not making it happen, people could surely understand why i would say something about it being done with far easier plates and being claimed as the same thing. This goes the same for six 5kg, three 15kg and whatever else.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Paul Savage

[mobsterone]

It occurs to me, in Paul's favor that I was present and indeed on the very rare occasion played at the same time, during some of his attempts with 3 x 15kg plates and so forth. I'm thinking of our year or so training together (was it a year Paul or less??) in Gloucester. As Paul says and I mentioned this was, other than matching them more or less for size, just using the weights we had there. I've much the same brand here (Bodypower) and can, if required, get sizes and dimensions They are, like many cheap plates, not as accurate as one might like. But, as was the rules, we made sure to weight them - on non calibrated and then later calibrated scales. From those ti]mes came both Paul and my videos of blob lifts and the like.

I'm, for the most part, too damned tight to spend £300+ on five or six 10kg plates. That said I've spent a lot over the years like the rest of you crazy fools lol.

[mobsterone]

On 13/02/2016 at 11:21 AM, Sam Scott said:

Reading your log, a person would think your were a world record holder in the grip sport, or a winner in multiple grip events, even clear videos and witnesses to back it up.

But I guess why you are rarely ever mentioned as a grip fore runner by legitimate athletes.

Will you compete - ever?

[Paul Savage]

1 hour ago, mobsterone said:

It occurs to me, in Paul's favor that I was present and indeed on the very rare occasion played at the same time, during some of his attempts with 3 x 15kg plates and so forth. I'm thinking of our year or so training together (was it a year Paul or less??) in Gloucester. As Paul says and I mentioned this was, other than matching them more or less for size, just using the weights we had there. I've much the same brand here (Bodypower) and can, if required, get sizes and dimensions They are, like many cheap plates, not as accurate as one might like. But, as was the rules, we made sure to weight them - on non calibrated and then later calibrated scales. From those ti]mes came both Paul and my videos of blob lifts and the like.

I'm, for the most part, too damned tight to spend £300+ on five or six 10kg plates. That said I've spent a lot over the years like the rest of you crazy fools lol.

Was 9 months i think, something like that, 9-10 months. You were there when i did them with pinky finger and thumb assists when me and sam were having a go at them and was actually at the end of a session, and it was the next session i actually lifted them no assistance. What happened though is that i had little feel of them and i knew i could lift them and it was the same with both left and right, so i got greedy and went for a double lift, but the problem was because i had not been using the other plates they were slippier and i had to use two different brands of plates in each hand to get six too but i was very close to getting the double lift first attempt and was fine one hand but the other hand the plates exploded out of hand, landed on my leg and all that an i got pissed and out of disgust of missing a lift that i felt like i could for sure get / i deleted the video straight after recording haha stupid but i thought for sure i would get it next few attempts an i was just pissed but it just didn't happen. The next week after that the british events were out so i had to focus purely on them and my plates i have now are harder so it's never happned other than a lift of half way up since. For that lift back then all i was doing was romanian deadlifts on them with two hands using gloves for sets of 15-20 reps and three 20kg for without the gloves for the same as warm ups before deadlift (i think you may have also seen me do one finger and thumb assisted lift of three 20kg with two lighter plates in there).

That is very true for me too! Think we have all spent far too much of training kit but to get easier plates to lift i think is just a silly move, can only see it having value to build up to the real feat. For that kind of money i certainly wouldnt bother.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Paul Savage

[Paul Savage]

1 hour ago, mobsterone said:

Will you compete - ever?

Maybe he will compete in trolling? Still wouldnt do too well

[Lucasraymond]

On 2/15/2016 at 2:05 PM, Alawadhi said:

If by insulting you mean what I have offered you am sure most board members here would love being "insulted" 

Have nothing else to say. Have a good day

You can insult me anytime!!!

[Alawadhi]

16 hours ago, mobsterone said:

Regarding a mans word - f**k that, Seriously. Ever since the whole Kim and John Wood 'word is bond' fiasco... and never mind Timmy the spring torcher / stamper comic book story telling which ALL GB members ought to be well aware of. We're talking about ego here - men's fragile male ego's to boot. Either show AND tell or I'll just take whatever you have to say, at best, as a gym lift and that's being kind. The world is full of guys who are mad strong in the gym - our best example is Chris James. But who, like Paul, I've beaten on the platform. They're both strong ass dudes. I agree with Paul regarding reading his training log and being fired up to train harder. But I'll point out that few of the very best guys in this sport make public their training numbers so regularly. David Horne doesn't. I long ago stopped feeding my competitors info on my competition training numbers. 

You can, all GB members (indeed any strength forum) choose to compete or not. To keep an online diary or not. If your numbers creep into world class or better then be prepared to be questioned. It's the price you paid for entry to the elite.

Very true! Unfortunately the new members doesn't know what are you talking about. But when they stay long enough and read these stuff and search the forum for old thread then they will know. Only evidence is what we go on not my word is bond. 

16 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

No one has denied that quality plates of a given weight are easier to pinch than low quality plates with an uneven rim. However when you belittle feats very few have or can achieve and at the same time claim phenomenal strength (eg one hand pinch lifting three wide 15k plates) you better be prepared to back it up, in front of other competitors if questioned. If Paul had b.... big enough (and budget) he would jump on a plane to Finland and show Juha how it is done in Juha's own backyard.

Yep I agree. But he belittled again the great feats of great people saying it's a silly move to find "easy" plates. Seemed to forgot when he was Viper (his older account) he was so happy to lift 2 15kg's/20kg's rubber plates. Hope he gets guided to the right path and not belittle a feat which he cannot do especially.

9 hours ago, Lucasraymond said:

You can insult me anytime!!!

Lol

[Evan Raftopoulos]

@Alawadhi no offense but you've been beating the same drum for days now. What this issue boils down to is disagreeing with how one raises concern regarding a specific feat that has not been done before. Paul's point seems valid to me, but from what I understand you don't like the way he raised his concern. To me it didn't seem to be an attack towards Juha, but more of an attack towards how the feat was accomplished. That's OK to do regardless if you have accomplished that feat or not. Also, I have no authority here but I think that Paul's training log is not the place to talk about this issue. It's really off topic, this thread should be about his training. Finally, I think that Juha is more than capable of defending himself if needed without any help. I'm not trying to start another argument and I look up to both Paul and Juha, I just think is a good idea to let go of what's been said and move on or at the very least discuss it elsewhere. 

[Bill Piche]

I will finally pipe in here. I think everyone had their say via clogging up Paul's training log. So, if everyone wants to continue with the debate, open a new thread elsewhere so as to not continue to clog up his training log.  

Thanks everyone.

[Paul Savage]

Yeah i personally see no reason to go into somebody elses log and talk negative stuff, why not just be positive and supportive of others? You arnt gaining a thing from being negative and making up things about others. Again the rubber plates thing was way off, that was when i was new to grip and didnt understand you could only use metal plates for pinch feats.

Back to training, did get massage from g/f which will definately help long term but been very sore from it. Trained grip today, wasnt recovered since monday so weaker but is what it is, well rest now till wednesday next week grip wise after today. So far have worked up to 41.25kg one hand pinch for 7 reps, 40kg for 11 reps and 36kg for 17 reps, then lose hold two 15kg for 50 seconds (spent) all at about 70mm i think. Then did upto 40kg with 5 second hold at lockout on hub key pinch then 32.5kg 5 reps and long hold plus extra thumb training. Now am going gym to do 25-30 sets of back with fat gripz thumbless followed by some wrist stuff to simulate pick axe event.

[mobsterone]

I should know this but given the training are you doing Andy's event? Paid your fee yet??

[Paul Savage]

Not andys no, worlds strongest hands in may. Has some of the same events is all.

[Paul Savage]

I have decided to change my focus to world armlift championships in russia. As much as i like davids wsh contest, the 40k prize pool etc is a big factor. The problem with it however is that i have basically never trained hub at all apart from wide hub which i havent done a lot of either, rolling thunder i completely hate, is prob my worst event in grip, axle im not as good at anymore with not using snap technique and everythings been thumbless recently, plus no grippers so hard to say what id be like on sb at mo. Some people will see it as excuses but everytime ive competed in grip ive not been at my best, first comp i only trained 1 week for and actually came in overtrained with sore forearms, british championships i foolishly didnt train grip hardly at all leading upto it as thought id at least keep training numbers id done and had strongman comp to train fir but i lost a bunch of strength grip, then wsh i was training for #4 cert and only trained 3 weeks for it and ended up with two pretty bad injuries. This time i dont want any excuses, come in 100% and then place where i place. If i know im not where i should be in 2 month ill probably leave it till next year, going to russia and placing 10th or something is not something i want to happen but fingers crossed i adjust to the new equipment well and im fit to compete come may.

[Kashtan]

Paul, I know an organization that organizes in the Saint - Petersburg World Cup.
APL.
I once took part in their commercial competition, in Bulgaria, the European Championship.
there was no tournament. I did not find it. I wasted money in Bulgaria.

My history. In Russian.

http://www.ironworld.ru/club/user/5109/blog/18526/

[mobsterone]

How many changes of focus you gonna have? Strongman, arm wrestling, grip, back to something else. FOCUS ON ONE THING!! Not for a bit... but for MONTHS!! Link to the arm lift event??

[Sam Radford]

Quote

This time i dont want any excuses, come in 100% and then place where i place. If i know im not where i should be in 2 month ill probably leave it till next year, going to russia and placing 10th or something is not something i want to happen

Why not attend Andy's comp in Leeds or the WSH then focus for 2017 as you mention the AL events are not your strongest?

[Paul Savage]

40 minutes ago, mobsterone said:

How many changes of focus you gonna have? Strongman, arm wrestling, grip, back to something else. FOCUS ON ONE THING!! Not for a bit... but for MONTHS!! Link to the arm lift event?

Ill be focusing on typical armlift events for probably around 18 months straight now. I cant link it but is on ironmind forum, armlift world championships. You should go, dont know about hub but great events for you otherwise, rolling thunder, axle, silver bullet and hub. 

[Paul Savage]

31 minutes ago, Sam Radford said:

Why not attend Andy's comp in Leeds or the WSH then focus for 2017 as you mention the AL events are not your strongest?

Andys comp never interested me but not doing worlds strongest hands because i care more about being the best in the sport sooner than later, that is my goal. Seeing how armlift championships has 40k prize pool and on tv channels with guys like kirill and andrey attending, it's obviously the biggest comp in the sport now. I didnt realise this until it was announced not long ago.