Hand Size

[Wade Gillingham]

The more I read.. the more I agree with Mr. Rice. You do have a few exceptions... like Andrew. Other than that.. the biggest strongest guys are going to win.. just like any sport. Obviously that is the importance of having Classes.

Having said that it all goes back to what I said. What are you guys doing to improve your overall strength? Its just my opinion, but unless you are trying to make your WHOLE body stronger.. then I think you are going to plateau a lot faster than you otherwise would have if you were constantly strength training.

Chad Woodall - Strongman Competitor and Grip Guy.. so you know he trains with heavy weight.

Andrew Durniat - Strongman, Highland Games, Grip.. Ive seen Andrew do like 375 farmers in each hand I believe.

Jedd Johnson - I know he used to do Strongman...

Rich Williams - The guy Deadlifts like 800lbs and trains with heavy weight all the time..

Tex Henderson - Strongman and Grip..

Maybe I am just way off base here.. but I think training the rest of your body as hard as you train your grip is crucial if you really want to achieve an elite level of grip strength.

I myself have been Strength Training since I was 16 years old... Football, Strongman, Highland Games and now Grip.. so thats a lot of training going in before I even started grip or knew what it was.

If you are 200lbs then more than likely no matter how hard you train your body you will never be as strong as someone like Rich Williams.. I mean.. I probably wont ever be lol.. but I feel like you are simply short changing yourself if you are not trying to get your whole body stronger.

Daniel made the comment yesterday that he does not have the desire to be 200lbs because of Rock Climbing.. and thats fine.. if Rock Climbing is your goal and what you enjoy then so be it.. but that may be what is holding you back from being better at grip?

Just my .02 for what its worth.

What's the evidence that Rich Williams pulls 800? Is there a video or a competition result?

Rex - Rich has told me he is in the 850 range. He said he has trouble hitching on heavy weights and has pulled 800 with no belt. I haven't seen any video of him pulling from the floor but there is some footage of him pulling in the rack at Sorinex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lJbh1rZ-vQ). I don't doubt at all that he can pull 800 - from talking to him it wasn't clear if his deadlifts would pass in a PL meet.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Wade Gillingham

[Hubgeezer]

I enjoy a good rumor and often make them my own and embellish them some before perpetuating them.

You should consider attending the Oldtime Barbell and Strongman dinner, so you can learn from the pros.

Rex, will you be attending this year?

[Bob Lipinski]

Weight loss never messes me up unless I go below 207 in which case I have usually needed to drop 7-10 pounds in a week.

Many of us grip guys would need HIV and a few years to get below 180.

The best rumor I have heard this year is that Rex is very humble, open to new ideas, and not pedantic in any way shape or form.

[Roark]

If the same man could compete while being able to have his hand size actually change, the hand size argument would be settled?

This can be somewhat accomplished not by the impossibility of switching hand sizes within a contest but by changing bar diameter: the thicker the bar, the smaller the effective hand size.

And, the reality that each of us can lift less as the bar gets thicker, to me at least, negates the argument that 'you just need to get stronger, hand size does not matter'. If that were true the Inch would be no more bother than a standard bar.

[Mikael Siversson]

Some of us have actually tried to work out events for grip competitions that do not favour big hands. It is not hard. You don't need a thickbar event in order to test grip strength. Thickbar events were invented by folks with large hands taking pleasure in making fun of people with little hands.

[Roark]

Some of us have actually tried to work out events for grip competitions that do not favour big hands. It is not hard. You don't need a thickbar event in order to test grip strength. Thickbar events were invented by folks with large hands taking pleasure in making fun of people with little hands.

There is some evidence for your statement- except perhaps the making fun part. One way large handed oldtimers could succeed was using thickbar. Apollon's nine inch hands could handle the large diameter bars he used easily, whereas a more common, smaller size hand would be thouroughly challenged to even grasp such a dimension.

[Mikael Siversson]

We are actually going to have our theories tested soon when Erik Milfeld competes in the 82.5k class. He pulled 102.9k last year at about 91k (according to Chris). This is a significant weight drop given that he is quite lean to start with from my understanding. If Jedd is right then Eric will absolutely demolish Pete's WR at 91k and pull in excess of 100k. We shall see. If he pulls in the low to mid-90ies then it would indicate that bodyweight is very much a factor in grip strength (although he might have an off day). It would still be a WR though as Eric is indeed very strong in the 2HP relative to his bodyweight.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Mikael Siversson

[Jedd Johnson]

Some of us have actually tried to work out events for grip competitions that do not favour big hands. It is not hard. You don't need a thickbar event in order to test grip strength. Thickbar events were invented by folks with large hands taking pleasure in making fun of people with little hands.

So have I, tried to make things fair with event selection and even event changes only weeks before a comp. However, how can you make the inch fair if it is in the medley. The only way is to keep it out of the medley. What fun is that?

The RT and Axle are out there for a reason, as well - they are outstanding tests of strength. There's no reason why we can't have two lists. We would have one anyway if we went with bodyweight.

[The Natural]

Rex - Rich has told me he is in the 850 range. He said he has trouble hitching on heavy weights and has pulled 800 with no belt. I haven't seen any video of him pulling from the floor but there is some footage of him pulling in the rack at Sorinex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lJbh1rZ-vQ). I don't doubt at all that he can pull 800 - from talking to him it wasn't clear if his deadlifts would pass in a PL meet.

Yes, I saw that video. He does not come close to pulling 800 on either attempt.

I saw him deadlift in December of 2009, after the grip competition. There too he missed 800, moving it about three inches off the ground.

He may have made progress since then, but I cannot find any objective evidence of it.

I don't doubt that he can pull 800 using a hitch. But that's not what I had in mind when I read Ross's claim. I would only stay interested in this topic if it were maintained that Rich pulls 800 in strict fashion. That's a much bolder and more interesting claim.

[Ross Love]

I have no reason to doubt that he can... I have pulled over 700 and he is a much bigger/stronger human than myself. He makes the 500lb axle look extremely light too.

[The Natural]

I have no reason to doubt that he can...

Earlier, Ross, you said you saw a video of him doing it. Now you're just saying you have no reason to doubt that he can. Where did you see this video? Would you mind posting it here so we can see it too?

[climber511]

What - if anything specific - does Rich train for? He's brutally strong - crazy grip - seems like a real nice guy - seems to work real hard at being strong above and beyond his natural state. Does he train for and compete in anything? Power lifting, Olympic Lifting, HG, Strongman, Grip other than Mighty Mitts stuff? Or does he just work out for the fun of it and to be strong in whatever might come along?

[Ross Love]

I have no reason to doubt that he can...

Earlier, Ross, you said you saw a video of him doing it. Now you're just saying you have no reason to doubt that he can. Where did you see this video? Would you mind posting it here so we can see it too?

It was actually the same video that Wade posted..

[The Natural]

I have no reason to doubt that he can...

Earlier, Ross, you said you saw a video of him doing it. Now you're just saying you have no reason to doubt that he can. Where did you see this video? Would you mind posting it here so we can see it too?

It was actually the same video that Wade posted..

I see. You seem to have misremembered, then, because the video Wade posted does not show any such lift.

[Ross Love]

ya I must have misremembered... I apologize for saying such a thing in general conversation and not having my facts a 100% correct. Again I sincerely apologize for not double checking my references prior to making such an outlandish claim.. Will you find it in your heart to forgive me for such a travesty? Or were you just looking for someone to tell you that your right?

Bad Day at Work?

[nockowt1]

What - if anything specific - does Rich train for? He's brutally strong - crazy grip - seems like a real nice guy - seems to work real hard at being strong above and beyond his natural state. Does he train for and compete in anything? Power lifting, Olympic Lifting, HG, Strongman, Grip other than Mighty Mitts stuff? Or does he just work out for the fun of it and to be strong in whatever might come along?

I asked him this same question and he told me that he just likes to train. If pressed, he considers himself a powerlifter, but he doesn't compete. He says he just wants to be as strong as possible. He definitely does not consider himself a grip athlete (even though he as a strong grip).

[Shoggoth]

What - if anything specific - does Rich train for? He's brutally strong - crazy grip - seems like a real nice guy - seems to work real hard at being strong above and beyond his natural state. Does he train for and compete in anything? Power lifting, Olympic Lifting, HG, Strongman, Grip other than Mighty Mitts stuff? Or does he just work out for the fun of it and to be strong in whatever might come along?

I asked him this same question and he told me that he just likes to train. If pressed, he considers himself a powerlifter, but he doesn't compete. He says he just wants to be as strong as possible. He definitely does not consider himself a grip athlete (even though he as a strong grip).

It kind of stated the same thing in that published article on him (I can't remember which one now, it was around mighty mitts time).

[The Mac]

ya I must have misremembered... I apologize for saying such a thing in general conversation and not having my facts a 100% correct. Again I sincerely apologize for not double checking my references prior to making such an outlandish claim.. Will you find it in your heart to forgive me for such a travesty? Or were you just looking for someone to tell you that your right?

Bad Day at Work?

Ross,

You do understand that some people take things like that seriously don't you? It one thing to say "Ok, I was talking in loose terms" or somesuch, but facetiousness doesn't really serve you here.

[Cannon]

The Rich tangent seems addressed. Let's get back on the hand size topic or start a new topic about Rich if there is more. Thanks for the discussion y'alls.

[daniel reinard]

I was discussing the Inch DB with Chris and others and hand size came up and I thought I'd share that here. Hand classes and weight classes might be made to some point fair but there will always be people who get stuck on the good end or bad end of the divide. I'll share my bio and maybe y'all can comment and share yours for comparison.

6'1.5"

180#

7.87" long hand

9.37" stretched span

So lightweight, slightly larger than average hands but sub big 8", but have a decent spread. One thing you can't measure is meat, or leanness of the hands. Mine are lean so they wrap better on wide objects, ie blobs and axles. How would you classify me or yourself?

For comparison because Chris had said this is hard on a 2" axle:

[macaz]

Daniel, Maybe ring size could show how much "meat" is on the hands.

Your hand is 7.87.. That is an awfully precise measurement for something that is a little hard to measure (I would just say 8"). My hands are about the same in length but It is hard to get a precise measurement. I get from 7&7/8 and 8" depending on how I try to line up the end of the ruler with my wrist. My span is easier to measure for me @ 9&3/4 and I know my ring size is 13.5 but I have a ring @ 13.25 so it wont slip off.

[daniel reinard]

Daniel, Maybe ring size could show how much "meat" is on the hands.

Your hand is 7.87.. That is an awfully precise measurement for something that is a little hard to measure (I would just say 8"). My hands are about the same in length but It is hard to get a precise measurement. I get from 7&7/8 and 8" depending on how I try to line up the end of the ruler with my wrist. My span is easier to measure for me @ 9&3/4 and I know my ring size is 13.5 but I have a ring @ 13.25 so it wont slip off.

7.87 is 7 7/8", and that's the best I could measure. Ring size could tell hand thickness to a point. But what about thumb pad? That plays a huge role. Basically too many variables to divide hands into classes, as much as we'd like. Still kind of interesting how different aspects change the mechanics of grip. But overall, strong is strong.

[BGally]

7.87 is 7 7/8", and that's the best I could measure. Ring size could tell hand thickness to a point. But what about thumb pad? That plays a huge role. Basically too many variables to divide hands into classes, as much as we'd like. Still kind of interesting how different aspects change the mechanics of grip. But overall, strong is strong.

That is a good point....

Is it worth having hand size classes if the makeup of the hand plays just as much of a grip factor as size? A hand that is thinner but broader could have the same stretch over a bar as a hand that is thicker/chubbier but longer.

[daniel reinard]

7.87 is 7 7/8", and that's the best I could measure. Ring size could tell hand thickness to a point. But what about thumb pad? That plays a huge role. Basically too many variables to divide hands into classes, as much as we'd like. Still kind of interesting how different aspects change the mechanics of grip. But overall, strong is strong.

That is a good point....

Is it worth having hand size classes if the makeup of the hand plays just as much of a grip factor as size? A hand that is thinner but broader could have the same stretch over a bar as a hand that is thicker/chubbier but longer.

I think Jedd mentioned using varying thick bars to measure hand wrap. If I remember right a big concern was whether the hand was relaxed or stretched while measuring because that makes a difference too. And how does one ensure the person isn't doing one or the other on purpose to fit in a better class for them. I always measure stretch because that's what you do while gripping at the max, but that kind of penalizes people who are flexible in the hands.

[Mike Rinderle]

I would like to state that the following is not directed at any one person. It is a generalized argument spawned by listening to the hand size argument forever now.

In all honesty, I think if you have small hands then sorry about your luck. I would have been a great sprinter had I been born with Carl Lewis' genetics. I'm only being half facetious here. They don't lower the hoop for short guys in basketball. They don't move 1st base closer for righthanded batters in baseball. They don't let tall guys pull from a rack in powerlifting. Guys with emphysema don't get to run 1/4 marathons so they can compete fairly with the other runners. They don't lower the hurdles for a guy with short legs in track. You can either work to get stronger and overcome it, or find another sport to compete in. Grip favors guys with big hands just as basketball favors guys that are tall. Short guys can and do excel at B-ball but not because they made it easier for them.

At some point equality came to mean equal outcomes instead of equal opportunity. There are a million different adjustments we could make so that everyone could pinch exactly the same amount or pull exactly the same on an axle. We have become a country of complainers. It's not fair because my hands are smaller than Jedd's or Rico's. Bull. Work harder than them or compete in another sport. Or just do it for the fun of it. Tall guys could complain (and they do) just as much about having to pull a foot more than short guys in a PL meet, so should we let guys like me pick from 20" when competing against Bob, who's like 5'7 or 5'8" as I recall? No. I wouldn't want that.

Sorry for my rant, but honestly, this is like a guy that's born color blind complaining that it is descrimination that he didn't get the job as color tester at DuPont. You have what God gave you. Do the most with it.

I know a lot of this stuff is just for fun conversation, but this argument has been going on for 10 years now. An axle is still going to be an axle, a fatman a fatman, and an Inch an Inch. If you have small hands, you are going to have a hard time on all of them compared to somebody with big mitts. Life isn't fair.

Andrew and Josh don't have huge hands, but they still do incredibly well at grip contests. At CGC last year, Tommy Heslep who has fairly small hands came with in a point of knocking off Parris who has some of the biggest hands I have ever seen. Hand size is one factor, but certainly not the only one.