rico300zx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Good discussion here guys. I think the reason why weight class intrigues me so much is because it mixes things up and it's changeable. We can change our weight class. I would like to see some of the dominant heavier guys drop some weight and enter the lower weight classes just to see what it does to their overall performances. And the same for the dominant light guys - gain some weight and see how they do in the heavier classes. I don't want this to disprove or prove anyone's theories either. Just mix it up for the sake of more competition and a different challenge along the way. For what it's worth - I have a pretty big hand span when measuring from pinky to thumb spread. I somehow haven't figured out how to make it work for me in terms of blob and any other pinch strength performance though...although I do know that it is a big advantage for me - at least whenever I can dial-in the world's slowest-to-develop pinch strength. Ben didn't jedd say he weren't from 290 to 250 , and didn't paul knight loose a bunch of weight last year? Heck I even lost 20lbs this post semester. They are still really strong. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Good discussion here guys. I think the reason why weight class intrigues me so much is because it mixes things up and it's changeable. We can change our weight class. I would like to see some of the dominant heavier guys drop some weight and enter the lower weight classes just to see what it does to their overall performances. And the same for the dominant light guys - gain some weight and see how they do in the heavier classes. I don't want this to disprove or prove anyone's theories either. Just mix it up for the sake of more competition and a different challenge along the way. For what it's worth - I have a pretty big hand span when measuring from pinky to thumb spread. I somehow haven't figured out how to make it work for me in terms of blob and any other pinch strength performance though...although I do know that it is a big advantage for me - at least whenever I can dial-in the world's slowest-to-develop pinch strength. Ben didn't jedd say he weren't from 290 to 250 , and didn't paul knight loose a bunch of weight last year? Heck I even lost 20lbs this post semester. They are still really strong. Rico Losing and/or gaining mostly fat isn't going to have much of an effect on your strength levels in grip. Try losing 40# (or gaining 40) of muscular body weight and see what happens. Actually getting heavy (not obese)- then losing is an old school strategy for getting stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Love Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The more I read.. the more I agree with Mr. Rice. You do have a few exceptions... like Andrew. Other than that.. the biggest strongest guys are going to win.. just like any sport. Obviously that is the importance of having Classes. Having said that it all goes back to what I said. What are you guys doing to improve your overall strength? Its just my opinion, but unless you are trying to make your WHOLE body stronger.. then I think you are going to plateau a lot faster than you otherwise would have if you were constantly strength training. Chad Woodall - Strongman Competitor and Grip Guy.. so you know he trains with heavy weight. Andrew Durniat - Strongman, Highland Games, Grip.. Ive seen Andrew do like 375 farmers in each hand I believe. Jedd Johnson - I know he used to do Strongman... Rich Williams - The guy Deadlifts like 800lbs and trains with heavy weight all the time.. Tex Henderson - Strongman and Grip.. Maybe I am just way off base here.. but I think training the rest of your body as hard as you train your grip is crucial if you really want to achieve an elite level of grip strength. I myself have been Strength Training since I was 16 years old... Football, Strongman, Highland Games and now Grip.. so thats a lot of training going in before I even started grip or knew what it was. If you are 200lbs then more than likely no matter how hard you train your body you will never be as strong as someone like Rich Williams.. I mean.. I probably wont ever be lol.. but I feel like you are simply short changing yourself if you are not trying to get your whole body stronger. Daniel made the comment yesterday that he does not have the desire to be 200lbs because of Rock Climbing.. and thats fine.. if Rock Climbing is your goal and what you enjoy then so be it.. but that may be what is holding you back from being better at grip? Just my .02 for what its worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The more I read.. the more I agree with Mr. Rice. You do have a few exceptions... like Andrew. Other than that.. the biggest strongest guys are going to win.. just like any sport. Obviously that is the importance of having Classes. Having said that it all goes back to what I said. What are you guys doing to improve your overall strength? Its just my opinion, but unless you are trying to make your WHOLE body stronger.. then I think you are going to plateau a lot faster than you otherwise would have if you were constantly strength training. Chad Woodall - Strongman Competitor and Grip Guy.. so you know he trains with heavy weight. Andrew Durniat - Strongman, Highland Games, Grip.. Ive seen Andrew do like 375 farmers in each hand I believe. Jedd Johnson - I know he used to do Strongman... Rich Williams - The guy Deadlifts like 800lbs and trains with heavy weight all the time.. Tex Henderson - Strongman and Grip.. Maybe I am just way off base here.. but I think training the rest of your body as hard as you train your grip is crucial if you really want to achieve an elite level of grip strength. I myself have been Strength Training since I was 16 years old... Football, Strongman, Highland Games and now Grip.. so thats a lot of training going in before I even started grip or knew what it was. If you are 200lbs then more than likely no matter how hard you train your body you will never be as strong as someone like Rich Williams.. I mean.. I probably wont ever be lol.. but I feel like you are simply short changing yourself if you are not trying to get your whole body stronger. Daniel made the comment yesterday that he does not have the desire to be 200lbs because of Rock Climbing.. and thats fine.. if Rock Climbing is your goal and what you enjoy then so be it.. but that may be what is holding you back from being better at grip? Just my .02 for what its worth. +1 ^ I took over a year off grip training and just worked on getting stronger all over. When I started back last week, I haven't lost much at all (except pinch). I'm sure bending as much as I did kept my hands in decent shape, but the fact that I'm stronger all over has made a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Besides a bit of off and on climbing for a couple years, I've been at grip for 10 months. I've yet to plateua. I'm a hair, literally from closing my BB Elite, bending Red nails in IMPs, putting up decent pinch numbers and axle numbers too. So far I don't see a reason I won't eventually be totalling up an Elite 800# or something. When I plateua maybe I'll buy it. It's a good arguement that makes sense but I can only speak on experience, which so far says it hasn't been the case of weight for me. And in the case of hand size, I'm a 7 3/4" and 7 7/8". I say let's see big guys drop weight, then we'll know. Oh course it can't be blubber weight. Jedd lost 40#, was it fat? Whatever it was it didn't hurt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Love Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Well first of all I was not targeting you with that post, Daniel.. so I hope you didnt take it that way. I was just using you as an example because your comment was current. You may be an exception.. but you cant tell me that making your whole body stronger would in no way help you in grip.. it just makes since that it would have to help you. And in regards to dropping weight lol... I did my body fat and weight last week.. 309lbs at 18.4% bodyfat. So I have 56.85lbs of Body Fat which would leave me at 252lbs with ZERO Fat. lol not how much more do you want me to lose? I just dont see that being a good arguement. Its kinda something that will never be proven. Even at 10% im over 275lbs. I dont see ANY reason ever being below 10% body fat unless you are competing in body building lol. We are obviously talking about completley different mind sets here.. I think thats where the disconnect comes in. My mind set: Grip Sport is a test of Strength.. so I want to be as strong as I possibly can. If I am dieting then im not gonna be as strong as I can be, simply not possible. So why would I sacrifice strength for a sweet bf%? lol In my eyes.. high caloric intake + Protein + carbs = higher intensity workouts and maximum recovery. Unless you are trying to make a weight class I think that is one of the best recipes for success. Now I am being somewhat contradictory... Right now im actually dropping weight.. In order to test the "leaner hands, better grip" theory.. So my goal is 12% body fat. Ive been documenting my progress as I go. As it stands ive dropped about 2% bodyfat in the past 3 weeks through Cardio Only... My goal is for it to be as slow as possible in order to save muscle tissue and strength, obviously. Edited June 21, 2011 by Ross Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Parker Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I believe that I shared this before but it was awhile ago. I have been training grip for 8 years with a 2 year layoff when life got too busy to train. I consistantly made small gains until about 2 years ago. At that point I was training grip only, no lifting of any kind. My progress stopped almost completly. I got back into weight training and my numbers have been going up again. In fact, the more I train my whole body, the stronger my grip gets. The biggest impact has been on grippers set to parallel or 20mm block. The stronger your upper body is, the easy it is to set the gripper down to the right spot. I believe that you will eventually plateau if you train grip only, it may not be in a year, but give it a couple. I also believe that even if you are making gains while doing little or no weight lifting, you will make bigger gains if you add weightlifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well first of all I was not targeting you with that post, Daniel.. so I hope you didnt take it that way. I was just using you as an example because your comment was current. You may be an exception.. but you cant tell me that making your whole body stronger would in no way help you in grip.. it just makes since that it would have to help you. And in regards to dropping weight lol... I did my body fat and weight last week.. 309lbs at 18.4% bodyfat. So I have 56.85lbs of Body Fat which would leave me at 252lbs with ZERO Fat. lol not how much more do you want me to lose? I just dont see that being a good arguement. Its kinda something that will never be proven. Even at 10$ im over 275lbs. lol, an additional 70lbs? I agree building body muscle will help grip, I just don't think the pounds of muscle will do that much. I do think the hormones from big excercises stimulate more grip growth and I think more gain is in that Kinney theory. If someone were to lose pounds of muscle while still hitting grip I think one will retain it. One noticable aspect would be skin contact via the change in hand size from it all. Again, I think more is gained or lost there. Just my opinion of course. Maybe I should do injections in my hands to obtain some sausage fingers to see what gains are made. I like your arguement but I'm stuck on mine. Maybe I'll come to a realization some day, then I'll have to take it all back. I enjoy the discussion. Hope I wasn't a bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) My mind set: Grip Sport is a test of Strength.. so I want to be as strong as I possibly can. If I am dieting then im not gonna be as strong as I can be, simply not possible. So why would I sacrifice strength for a sweet bf%? lol In my eyes.. high caloric intake + Protein + carbs = higher intensity workouts and maximum recovery. Unless you are trying to make a weight class I think that is one of the best recipes for success. Now I am being somewhat contradictory... Right now im actually dropping weight.. In order to test the "leaner hands, better grip" theory.. So my goal is 12% body fat. Ive been documenting my progress as I go. As it stands ive dropped about 2% bodyfat in the past 3 weeks through Cardio Only... My goal is for it to be as slow as possible in order to save muscle tissue and strength, obviously. Of course I'd assume someone who drops weight below their natural weight would see loss in strengths all around. My resting weight is 165-170# if I don't work out. I'll bet the grip goes if I drop weight below 165 or drop it too fast as you mentioned can happen. As Jeff said, setting a big gripper uses all over strength. That's my biggest issue with grippers at the moment. BBE yes, 3.5 dangit no. I remember when a 3 was a turd to set. On a side note I've been practicing my setting using heavy grippers to make everything else feel easy. Edited June 21, 2011 by daniel reinard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Love Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well first of all I was not targeting you with that post, Daniel.. so I hope you didnt take it that way. I was just using you as an example because your comment was current. You may be an exception.. but you cant tell me that making your whole body stronger would in no way help you in grip.. it just makes since that it would have to help you. And in regards to dropping weight lol... I did my body fat and weight last week.. 309lbs at 18.4% bodyfat. So I have 56.85lbs of Body Fat which would leave me at 252lbs with ZERO Fat. lol not how much more do you want me to lose? I just dont see that being a good arguement. Its kinda something that will never be proven. Even at 10$ im over 275lbs. lol, an additional 70lbs? I agree building body muscle will help grip, I just don't think the pounds of muscle will do that much. I do think the hormones from big excercises stimulate more grip growth and I think more gain is in that Kinney theory. If someone were to lose pounds of muscle while still hitting grip I think one will retain it. One noticable aspect would be skin contact via the change in hand size from it all. Again, I think more is gained or lost there. Just my opinion of course. Maybe I should do injections in my hands to obtain some sausage fingers to see what gains are made. I like your arguement but I'm stuck on mine. Maybe I'll come to a realization some day, then I'll have to take it all back. I enjoy the discussion. Hope I wasn't a bother. Not a bother at all... I enjoy it. Ill keep posting in my log.. hopefully ill be able to prove one way or the other when I get closer to 275lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Not a bother at all... I enjoy it. Ill keep posting in my log.. hopefully ill be able to prove one way or the other when I get closer to 275lbs. Good luck with your goals. Sounds like you have a good game plan and the log will be a good one to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 There are some guys on the board that just do grip but just about everyone I can think of who competes regularly in grip is strong and trains overall body strength. Lots of guys compete in other strength sports - some of which are weight classed like arm wrestlers, PL, and OL. Lots of them do HG and Strongman and work at being big (or not). Last year for example I did a couple HG, a NAS Strongman contest, and I think 6 grip contests due to the WSH series plus climbed up to the 5.10 level. I do struggle now with getting more body strength in spite of my best efforts to do so - I think father time is just catching up with me finally. And gaining more body weight that is muscular is nearly impossible in your 60s and the last thing I want is to gain more fat. I am still managing to squeak out the occasional grip PR though and I'm happy about that. Things like squats and Dl are on a slow decline even though I work them hard in training. I think I am "that guy" whose body is holding back his hands - despite my best efforts for the last 51 years in the weight room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The more I read.. the more I agree with Mr. Rice. You do have a few exceptions... like Andrew. Other than that.. the biggest strongest guys are going to win.. just like any sport. Obviously that is the importance of having Classes. Having said that it all goes back to what I said. What are you guys doing to improve your overall strength? Its just my opinion, but unless you are trying to make your WHOLE body stronger.. then I think you are going to plateau a lot faster than you otherwise would have if you were constantly strength training. Chad Woodall - Strongman Competitor and Grip Guy.. so you know he trains with heavy weight. Andrew Durniat - Strongman, Highland Games, Grip.. Ive seen Andrew do like 375 farmers in each hand I believe. Jedd Johnson - I know he used to do Strongman... Rich Williams - The guy Deadlifts like 800lbs and trains with heavy weight all the time.. Tex Henderson - Strongman and Grip.. Maybe I am just way off base here.. but I think training the rest of your body as hard as you train your grip is crucial if you really want to achieve an elite level of grip strength. I myself have been Strength Training since I was 16 years old... Football, Strongman, Highland Games and now Grip.. so thats a lot of training going in before I even started grip or knew what it was. If you are 200lbs then more than likely no matter how hard you train your body you will never be as strong as someone like Rich Williams.. I mean.. I probably wont ever be lol.. but I feel like you are simply short changing yourself if you are not trying to get your whole body stronger. Daniel made the comment yesterday that he does not have the desire to be 200lbs because of Rock Climbing.. and thats fine.. if Rock Climbing is your goal and what you enjoy then so be it.. but that may be what is holding you back from being better at grip? Just my .02 for what its worth. What's the evidence that Rich Williams pulls 800? Is there a video or a competition result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 What's the evidence that Rich Williams pulls 800? Is there a video or a competition result? At the risk of putting words in his mouth, I think he meant "like 800" as in "a lot." Maybe? I read it that way. Like Rich pulls a jillion pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 After seeing Rich perform in person, hearing that he pulls 800# is about as shocking to me as the captain of the local HS football team telling me that he can bench 315#. I would be more suprised if he couldn't pull it. Doesn't he weigh almost 400#? A double bw deadlift, especially for someone that talented (have you seen how explosive he is?!) just doesn't strike me as questionable. I'm not a powerlifter though so maybe I'm way off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Love Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ya I have seen a video of him pulling either 790 or 800... I believe he weighed 407 at the Arnold.. I THINK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGally Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There are some guys on the board that just do grip but just about everyone I can think of who competes regularly in grip is strong and trains overall body strength. Lots of guys compete in other strength sports - some of which are weight classed like arm wrestlers, PL, and OL. Lots of them do HG and Strongman and work at being big (or not). Last year for example I did a couple HG, a NAS Strongman contest, and I think 6 grip contests due to the WSH series plus climbed up to the 5.10 level. I do struggle now with getting more body strength in spite of my best efforts to do so - I think father time is just catching up with me finally. And gaining more body weight that is muscular is nearly impossible in your 60s and the last thing I want is to gain more fat. I am still managing to squeak out the occasional grip PR though and I'm happy about that. Things like squats and Dl are on a slow decline even though I work them hard in training. I think I am "that guy" whose body is holding back his hands - despite my best efforts for the last 51 years in the weight room. You are truly an inspiration Chris. I hope to be as active when I reach your experience level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yeah, Chris Rice is very impressive in many ways. Lighter than me? -check. Stronger than me on most of the grip events? -check. Quite a bit older than me? -check. Always super nice and willing to help everyone with anything? -check. Still getting stronger? -check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Yeah, Chris Rice is very impressive in many ways. Lighter than me? -check. Stronger than me on most of the grip events? -check. Quite a bit older than me? -check. Always super nice and willing to help everyone with anything? -check. Still getting stronger? -check. Thanks Ben - how's that Wrist Thingy treating you? You still owe me a write up Edited June 21, 2011 by climber511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 You are truly an inspiration Chris. I hope to be as active when I reach your experience level. +1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 True but those events are not really suitable for grip strength competitions anyway, whereas a width adjustable pinch set up is (and e.g. grippers MMS). Now take that weight down to 180lbs, load up the 2HP with 119k and have a go at it. It will go nowhere. Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle. Totally agreed. I cut from about 290 to 250 lbs from the end of 2007 to the end of 2008 and it had next to no effect on my Grip training. And if I did all the vitamin-S I could find and put on 100# of muscle I still couldn't lift a blob by the face nor would I have a prayer at the RT WR RT would be fine for Grip IF there were hand size classes. Nothing is going to change, lets face it. We do this because we love it. I do it because I think its lots of fun and love the sport. I've always said the future top gripsters will be X strong men type or current strongman type with a couple anomalies thrown in the mix. Every one else just do your best. And have someone to look up to, that's all u can do. Parris Oil Can. Good discussion here guys. I think the reason why weight class intrigues me so much is because it mixes things up and it's changeable. We can change our weight class. I would like to see some of the dominant heavier guys drop some weight and enter the lower weight classes just to see what it does to their overall performances. And the same for the dominant light guys - gain some weight and see how they do in the heavier classes. I don't want this to disprove or prove anyone's theories either. Just mix it up for the sake of more competition and a different challenge along the way. For what it's worth - I have a pretty big hand span when measuring from pinky to thumb spread. I somehow haven't figured out how to make it work for me in terms of blob and any other pinch strength performance though...although I do know that it is a big advantage for me - at least whenever I can dial-in the world's slowest-to-develop pinch strength. Ben didn't jedd say he weren't from 290 to 250 , and didn't paul knight loose a bunch of weight last year? Heck I even lost 20lbs this post semester. They are still really strong. Rico I have to apologize, because I actually went from 279 at my fattest to like 249 at MGC in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ya I have seen a video of him pulling either 790 or 800... I believe he weighed 407 at the Arnold.. I THINK. I'd be interested to see this video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 What's the evidence that Rich Williams pulls 800? Is there a video or a competition result? At the risk of putting words in his mouth, I think he meant "like 800" as in "a lot." Maybe? I read it that way. Like Rich pulls a jillion pounds. That's how false rumors start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I enjoy a good rumor and often make them my own and embellish them some before perpetuating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I enjoy a good rumor and often make them my own and embellish them some before perpetuating them. You should consider attending the Oldtime Barbell and Strongman dinner, so you can learn from the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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