Paul Knight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Below is a video of the guy I'm training with - Geoff Engles Edited February 28, 2011 by Paul Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You have to keep your wrist locked and gradually work for control. I pressure back while trying to get the fingers and once I'm clamped, head to the pad, with my wrist locked of course. Once I grab those fingers from that flopped press, they're going to the pad or their fingers are breaking or they're slipping out. Even if your elbow is steel, if you just blast into them you'll probably just slip and they'll restart in the straps. If you watch some other videos from that page, of that supermatch (Bill vs. Shane) I think the top roller pulls it out in one. I hate AW people that do that crap but it's a legit move so what are gonna do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Shane pulls it out in this one (their first match) and you can see he's firmly clamped over Bill's hand. Notice how much of his fingers are over the back of Bill's hand. Bill can't get as much leverage to press into his wrist. Shane is all over the back of his hand. In the previous clip I showed Bill had a lot more of his hand and could apply more leverage and of course eventually his elbow just gave. I'll guarantee you that even this one that he won, didn't feel great on his elbow. Edited February 28, 2011 by jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) so what do you do what someone does the flopped wrist press? ... do you know of another video where someone beats that technique? Thanks in advance BTW ... anyone else from the GB going besides Joe? David, I can't remember ... did you say you were going? Yeah I will be there. As for countering a flop wrist, I will give you what I would do. I wouldn't apply any side pressure, but just keep posting straight back. This will almost certainly cause a slip. If they fight your toproll in the strap and you flatten their wrist (this is best case scenario, their wrist is simply flat and not back) then a combination of back pressure and side pressure to pin. If they let their wrist completely flop in the strap, post back as hard as you can. You won't be slipping in the straps. You should pin them by going straight back with very little side pressure. This is all assuming you know how to apply proper hand control in these situations. Improper hand control can nullify your efforts. That's very situation dependent, and I can't really explain it in text form. Edited February 28, 2011 by thewalrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ^Great explanation. I would just expand upon his hand control comment with if you can't keep your wrist locked then you'll backpressure through it/flopping your wrist or at least kinking it enough where the pressure will go way up which is what you want to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Knight Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Thanks Josh and David ... my arms have been tender yesterday and today ... I went to the gym tonight and did some real light weight and high rep w/some hammer curls, trad curls, tricep press downs and extensions to get a good blood pump as I hear this is what speeds up the healing. What are some of the techniques you guys use when trying to re-coop after AW practice/tourny's? I'm icing when I have time which is only at night ... other than that I'm taking 600 to 800 if Ibuprofen when I can't ice. Sound right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Some people do light workouts, but I prefer absolute rest. After a very difficult practice, I probably won't even think about going near a gym for at least 3 days. I don't even do squats or deadlifts or anything. I let my body complete focus on repairing. That's what helps me recover at the fastest rate. Usually after 3 days of complete rest, I'm pretty much 100% again. In the case of an extremely intense armwrestling practice, I may take 4 days off, but I can really only think of two times that has ever happened. edit: After an average armwrestling practice, I rest the following day and I am back in the gym on the second day. Edited March 3, 2011 by thewalrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Thanks Josh and David ... my arms have been tender yesterday and today ... I went to the gym tonight and did some real light weight and high rep w/some hammer curls, trad curls, tricep press downs and extensions to get a good blood pump as I hear this is what speeds up the healing. What are some of the techniques you guys use when trying to re-coop after AW practice/tourny's? I'm icing when I have time which is only at night ... other than that I'm taking 600 to 800 if Ibuprofen when I can't ice. Sound right? Just ask yourself if the above seems reasonable. Better yet, ask why your arm is going through this and then re-read my previous posts concerning a foundation for AW'ing. You're headed for disaster Paul. You'll be the one suffering, not the guys encouraging you to press on. Good luck! Don't say I didn't WARN you. LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Absolute rest for me too. The high rep stuff never did a thing for me other than put me two steps back. I ice after practice and when I have time but it's the absolute rest that is key IMO. I test myself like this: I flex my arms really hard like a 90 degree hammer curl, if I still have pain, I keep resting. It usually takes me about 14 days after a monster practice. If we just do an intense hour or so I can be good in about a week but I've been regularly pulling for the past two years. That's the thing that sucks with pulling; you basically give up working out because even if you recover in a week you're either going to practice at less than 100% from your gym workout or you skip the gym workout. There's certainly plenty of guys that still lift but I've yet to talk to the guy that hasn't drastically reduced his gym time since starting pulling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yeah, I've come to realize that armwrestling and lifting do not go together very well. Right now, lifting is starting to be more important to me than armwrestling. I just recently made the decision to take off from armwrestling practice indefinitely to focus on lifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Knight Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Yeah, I've come to realize that armwrestling and lifting do not go together very well. Right now, lifting is starting to be more important to me than armwrestling. I just recently made the decision to take off from armwrestling practice indefinitely to focus on lifting. are you going to AW at the Ronnie though this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) Absolute rest for me too. The high rep stuff never did a thing for me other than put me two steps back. I ice after practice and when I have time but it's the absolute rest that is key IMO. I test myself like this: I flex my arms really hard like a 90 degree hammer curl, if I still have pain, I keep resting. It usually takes me about 14 days after a monster practice. If we just do an intense hour or so I can be good in about a week but I've been regularly pulling for the past two years. That's the thing that sucks with pulling; you basically give up working out because even if you recover in a week you're either going to practice at less than 100% from your gym workout or you skip the gym workout. There's certainly plenty of guys that still lift but I've yet to talk to the guy that hasn't drastically reduced his gym time since starting pulling. Good post Jad! Either way Paul loses out. His pulling will affect his grip (Big time) for the Grip Contest and he'll be weaker at pulling the day of the tournament from inadequate time to build a tendon/ligament network in his bodymaps (neurally speaking), not to mention his GTO's (Golgi Tendon Organs) will not be de-sensitized due to the lengthening of his muscle spindles from the AW'ing practice. What does this mean in a nutshell? A sensitive GTO inhibits the amount of motor activity in his muscles which in turn equals less (often way less) output, which means weaker on tournament day. It's all in the proper foundation built over time. BTW, the relationship between the GTO and muscle spindles is why an individual is weaker at grippers after thick bar, hence no carry over either. Want to get good at grippers, stay away from thick bar at least until you reach your goals in one or the other. I constantly read about people claiming this but not explaining why. Now you know why. Hope this helps! Okay, back to my laboratory. LOL!!! Edited March 4, 2011 by Mighty Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 are you going to AW at the Ronnie though this year? Yeah I'll be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaz Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Good post Jad! Either way Paul loses out. His pulling will affect his grip (Big time) for the Grip Contest and he'll be weaker at pulling the day of the tournament from inadequate time to build a tendon/ligament network in his bodymaps (neurally speaking), not to mention his GTO's (Golgi Tendon Organs) will not be de-sensitized due to the lengthening of his muscle spindles from the AW'ing practice. What does this mean in a nutshell? A sensitive GTO inhibits the amount of motor activity in his muscles which in turn equals less (often way less) output, which means weaker on tournament day. It's all in the proper foundation built over time. BTW, the relationship between the GTO and muscle spindles is why an individual is weaker at grippers after thick bar, hence no carry over either. Want to get good at grippers, stay away from thick bar at least until you reach your goals in one or the other. I constantly read about people claiming this but not explaining why. Now you know why. Hope this helps! Okay, back to my laboratory. LOL!!! Interesting information. Doesnt strength carry over from one thing to another. Are there some things that complement each other? What things besides thick bar are counter productive. I did arm wrestle a good tennis player a long time ago. His right arm was really strong and his left was wimpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budman Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I pulled with Paul his first practice and let me just tell everyone he's a monster on the table as well as with grip. He picked up on the top roll very quickly. his tech got better and better and he beat us all left and right handed. His hand and wrist feels un real. As for my opinion on Paul AW in the ronnie. I think he will breeze through the novice for an easy first place. His elbow on the other hand will get hurt worse, but I know Paul personlly and it never seems to heal up completely just doing grip. I also think his tendon strength is much more developed than everyones giving him credit for. I would think that all the bending hes done has def strengthened his tendons. Paul, as for defending the flopped wrist pullers. I would stay in your top roll and if you feel that your in trouble, slip out. Some people ar surprisingly stong with this move. When you set back up dive over top of his arm in a press. I've done this in tourneys and it worked for me every time so far. Will this effect Pauls grip? If he trains smart and doesn't over do practices and gym work for pulling. I think he'll be fine. Some of the best AW in the world have massive grip strength. I watched John Brzenk pick up the inch after pulling a tourny. He did a half hammer curl when he picked it up from the floor. If you over do prctices it will effect your grip traing because injurys due to AW tend feel very deep and linger for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Knight Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) I pulled with Paul his first practice and let me just tell everyone he's a monster on the table as well as with grip. He picked up on the top roll very quickly. his tech got better and better and he beat us all left and right handed. His hand and wrist feels un real. As for my opinion on Paul AW in the ronnie. I think he will breeze through the novice for an easy first place. His elbow on the other hand will get hurt worse, but I know Paul personlly and it never seems to heal up completely just doing grip. I also think his tendon strength is much more developed than everyones giving him credit for. I would think that all the bending hes done has def strengthened his tendons. Paul, as for defending the flopped wrist pullers. I would stay in your top roll and if you feel that your in trouble, slip out. Some people ar surprisingly stong with this move. When you set back up dive over top of his arm in a press. I've done this in tourneys and it worked for me every time so far. Will this effect Pauls grip? If he trains smart and doesn't over do practices and gym work for pulling. I think he'll be fine. Some of the best AW in the world have massive grip strength. I watched John Brzenk pick up the inch after pulling a tourny. He did a half hammer curl when he picked it up from the floor. If you over do prctices it will effect your grip traing because injurys due to AW tend feel very deep and linger for quite some time. Thanks Geoff ... so when we set back up, I'm assuming we would be in straps? ... then start my top roll again and if he does the same thing, then dive into the press? Thanks in advance Edited March 6, 2011 by Paul Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) I pulled with Paul his first practice and let me just tell everyone he's a monster on the table as well as with grip. He picked up on the top roll very quickly. his tech got better and better and he beat us all left and right handed. His hand and wrist feels un real. As for my opinion on Paul AW in the ronnie. I think he will breeze through the novice for an easy first place. His elbow on the other hand will get hurt worse, but I know Paul personlly and it never seems to heal up completely just doing grip. I also think his tendon strength is much more developed than everyones giving him credit for. I would think that all the bending hes done has def strengthened his tendons. Paul, as for defending the flopped wrist pullers. I would stay in your top roll and if you feel that your in trouble, slip out. Some people ar surprisingly stong with this move. When you set back up dive over top of his arm in a press. I've done this in tourneys and it worked for me every time so far. Will this effect Pauls grip? If he trains smart and doesn't over do practices and gym work for pulling. I think he'll be fine. Some of the best AW in the world have massive grip strength. I watched John Brzenk pick up the inch after pulling a tourny. He did a half hammer curl when he picked it up from the floor. If you over do prctices it will effect your grip traing because injurys due to AW tend feel very deep and linger for quite some time. Geoff, you admit his elbow could be in trouble but you encourage him to continue. Sorry, but I don't understand your training philosophy here. Tendon strength developed from bending and tendon strength developed from arm wrestling are different in numerous ways of which I don't have the time to type all the technical details involved. You don't get a foundation in arm wrestling from bending. Sorry, doesn't work like that. Ask the man himself, Mr. Brzenk. Brzenk lifting the Inch after a tourny and Paul doing grip is not a good comparison for the simple reason that Brzenk has a solid foundation from years and years of conditioning for this particular sport. For the record, no one has more respect for Paul than myself. I'm just concerned about a worse injury to his already injured elbow. I don't just make this stuff up. There's not a day goes by that I don't study some aspect of how the human body works, especially in conjunction with strength related sports. I made tons of mistakes (from lack of knowledge) in my training career and I try to share with others how to avoid those same mistakes. If Paul decides that AW'ing is what he wants to pursue, I'm all behind him 100% to succeed and be the best he can be. But I won't stand mute if I believe based on sound science that he's headed for a possible disaster. I'm not saying he'll get injured or he'll fail. I'm saying based on what I know from the sport, the human body, and Paul's history of a troubled elbow, he could get in trouble and in the most extreme example, ruin both his grip and arm wrestling career. I would hate to know that in that case I failed to say something that could have prevented it in the first place. I wish Paul Knight nothing but the BEST in whatever he sets out to do! Edited March 6, 2011 by Mighty Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Paul, pressing, especially diving in on a press, is probably REALLY going to hurt your elbow. Pressing is hard on your elbow anyways and if you have an injury, it's probably going to make it worse. I'd defintely play with that at half-speed for you dive into anyone in press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budman Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 jad is right about the press being a more stressfull move on your elbows. I was just giving my opinion on the best defense for a flop wrist puller and more than likely you would not be strapped back up in the match. A slip in that hand position is just a restart with your own grip up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burke77 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Any updates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Love Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I just left.. Paul is a beast. Was undefeated when I left. Competing right and left arm lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Glad to hear it's working for you! I think you'll do well with your hand and wrist strength. Unless some insecure pro pulls novice I'll predict you win your class. Here's a video demononstrating the bad position I was talking about with my other post. The guy on the right (Shane) does exactly what you DON'T want to do/what I was warning about. BTW, he confirmed later he tore up his elbow. The ligiament ripped a piece of bone off and he's out for awhile. Notice how he looks like he's in total control but from a front lever standpoint you can see his wrist is actually flopped. That's when the pressure starts and bad things happen. I've done this once to each elbow (not sure if it was MCL tear or small fracture like Shane) but the left took about 9 months before I could get back on the table and the right a good 3. You'll still feel like your in total control and very comfortable and then it will just pop. Keep your wrist locked if someone is pressing you, if you can't, I'd just lay down or maybe slip, especially with your elbow. http://www.youtube.com/user/ozark4ever#p/a/u/2/9tmZ3tMMMaY It's hard being right all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sher Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I imagine so. lol I think I left after Ross did. Paul had one more matchup to go - the ones I saw all looked pretty easy to me. The grip comp ended just before the AW tourney started so no overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Paul crushed everyone in the novice 242's. He probably would have placed top 4 in the opens. Maybe top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burke77 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 both right and left? wow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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