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The Phantom 4


Volko Krull

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DannyGrip

I have a monster #4 (240ibs RGC)) that i will give to Martin A the next time i see him.

I will never ever have the motivation to go that far in the gripper game so it will be intresting to see what martin can do with it as he actualy has closed a #4 before...

Would love to see how Martin does on that gripper. He is one powerful dude - I think I originally seen his video of him closing the #3.5 a while back and it looked crazy!

About the calibration or the rating of the Phantom 4 - I apologize if anyone took it offensive that this gripper is one that is close to a #3.5, rather than a bit harder than a #3.

Didn't mean to offend the guys who feel that when Randall Strossen puts something that "might" be wrong in his book it's okay but when I bring up an imporoperly made gripper to his attention it isn't okay.

I'm sure Richard wasn't offended by me asking if he ever brought it to his attention.

What would be wrong if he did? For those who are interested in precision or rating of grippers, this would be interesting.

Once again, sorry to offend anyone.

I don't think my post should have been taken offensively in anyway.

I just found it all quite impressive that Richard closed this gripper back in the day and only got credit for closing a gripper slightly harder than a #3, when in reality Richard was ahead of the game like we cannot even imagine!

:)

Thank You

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I closed it with a mm set,parallel.It's no #3.5 its a tuff #4.Little Dave Morton closed it right after I did at GGC in 2005?Not sure on the year.

bencrush

Wow thanks for sharing all this Richard! Very interesting read.

Has any of the big closers ever tried that monster #4 of "Big Nasty"?

Tim

Good luck on that #4 to anyone who tries it. Andrew Durniat gave Jason's "Heartbreaker" (190lb+ #3) a shot after the Dino Grip Challenge last month. And that's about 50lbs "easier" than Jason's #4.

How'd he do on that one? Didn't it have a freaky wide spread as well?

Tim

I didn't see it, but I heard it was around 1/4" - after the contest remember. The spread was 3.25" and it had the old slickish steel handles too. I don't think it will ever be CCS closed by a human.

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acorn

I have a monster #4 (240ibs RGC)) that i will give to Martin A the next time i see him.

I will never ever have the motivation to go that far in the gripper game so it will be intresting to see what martin can do with it as he actualy has closed a #4 before...

Would love to see how Martin does on that gripper. He is one powerful dude - I think I originally seen his video of him closing the #3.5 a while back and it looked crazy!

About the calibration or the rating of the Phantom 4 - I apologize if anyone took it offensive that this gripper is one that is close to a #3.5, rather than a bit harder than a #3.

Didn't mean to offend the guys who feel that when Randall Strossen puts something that "might" be wrong in his book it's okay but when I bring up an imporoperly made gripper to his attention it isn't okay.

I'm sure Richard wasn't offended by me asking if he ever brought it to his attention.

What would be wrong if he did? For those who are interested in precision or rating of grippers, this would be interesting.

Once again, sorry to offend anyone.

I don't think my post should have been taken offensively in anyway.

I just found it all quite impressive that Richard closed this gripper back in the day and only got credit for closing a gripper slightly harder than a #3, when in reality Richard was ahead of the game like we cannot even imagine!

:)

Thank You

I dont think anyone took offense, me included. Its just that Mr. Strossen is in the business of selling Grippers not fact checking. This kind of stuff is pretty common with his writings and has been discussed considerably here on the GB. To paraphrase an old proverb, ... those who write the history are going to write it from their own perspective....

As far as I know Mr. Strossen is not a man who closes his own grippers but prefers to give them much mystique and hype to sell more of them. Makes sense from a business perspective.

- Aaron

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DannyGrip

I have a monster #4 (240ibs RGC)) that i will give to Martin A the next time i see him.

I will never ever have the motivation to go that far in the gripper game so it will be intresting to see what martin can do with it as he actualy has closed a #4 before...

Would love to see how Martin does on that gripper. He is one powerful dude - I think I originally seen his video of him closing the #3.5 a while back and it looked crazy!

About the calibration or the rating of the Phantom 4 - I apologize if anyone took it offensive that this gripper is one that is close to a #3.5, rather than a bit harder than a #3.

Didn't mean to offend the guys who feel that when Randall Strossen puts something that "might" be wrong in his book it's okay but when I bring up an imporoperly made gripper to his attention it isn't okay.

I'm sure Richard wasn't offended by me asking if he ever brought it to his attention.

What would be wrong if he did? For those who are interested in precision or rating of grippers, this would be interesting.

Once again, sorry to offend anyone.

I don't think my post should have been taken offensively in anyway.

I just found it all quite impressive that Richard closed this gripper back in the day and only got credit for closing a gripper slightly harder than a #3, when in reality Richard was ahead of the game like we cannot even imagine!

smile.gif

Thank You

I dont think anyone took offense, me included. Its just that Mr. Strossen is in the business of selling Grippers not fact checking. This kind of stuff is pretty common with his writings and has been discussed considerably here on the GB. To paraphrase an old proverb, ... those who write the history are going to write it from their own perspective....

As far as I know Mr. Strossen is not a man who closes his own grippers but prefers to give them much mystique and hype to sell more of them. Makes sense from a business perspective.

- Aaron

Great reply!

Makes perfect sense.

Kind of like a doctor promoting a prescription (which they get proceeds on) but claims the side effects aren't that bad.

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If it is of interest to Jad and others the spring (chromed) on the P4 is on an accurate caliper .296".I spoke with an owner of a machine shop that produces precision shafts ect. for submarines and such and he knows more than a little about tempering and metals. He said "where the spring was placed in the tempering and drawing oven matters , How long it was left in ,quality and composition of steel from batch to batch......was there rust on the spring wire, did the work shift change, or a lunchtime break run late and perhaps springs cooked a bit longer than needed,you can't explain it all". A lot of unseen variables are present in steel and tempering.I am amazed after it is all said and done why any of our findings make sense.RS

I had a similiar conversation with Warren one night regarding where the spring is placed in the oven, etc.. Eric V was also telling me how much steel can vary just by the foot when we were talking about scrolling one night. I had a P4 dud made and the specs I got from another board member was .292 or .293 and I just had it made to .295. I'm not arguing what your's is measured at but do you think chroming it adds girth or is .003-004 an exceptable tolerance or was it made to originally be .296? BTW mine went high 160's I believe without having it right here in front of me. It has a .295 spring, 1/4 mount, chromed steel handles, and 3" spread (it shrunk down some).

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Chrome will add a few thousanths .001-.003. Also, like a shell on a nut chrome adds rigidity to the spring. One thing I did notice as compared with my old and new #3s and 3.5s the bottom belly of the P4 spring hangs a bit below the line of the handle top ends and they do not.I don't know if a spring insertion depth gauge was used back then but, that being prototype/or special item as the P4 was the spring might have been inserted by "estimating" proper depth. I HAVE built and SEEN grippers built...It is NOT an exacting science. Recent vast improvement efforts in IM products have them very well constructed and very uniform and in my opinion better than ever.

Think about how man evolved....much the same scenerio. Neanderthals in todays world would not do well but the steady evolution from that "primitive being" made the human species better.......(oh, by the way, did the Neanderthals really exist?)RS

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Has anyone ever tried to make a gripper with a stainless spring? That would be cool; polished stainless I mean.

Steel varies a ton and it can be heck on benders. I've definately noticed it varying from inch to inch, especially on hot rolled steel.

Tim

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Chrome will add a few thousanths .001-.003. Also, like a shell on a nut chrome adds rigidity to the spring. One thing I did notice as compared with my old and new #3s and 3.5s the bottom belly of the P4 spring hangs a bit below the line of the handle top ends and they do not.I don't know if a spring insertion depth gauge was used back then but, that being prototype/or special item as the P4 was the spring might have been inserted by "estimating" proper depth. I HAVE built and SEEN grippers built...It is NOT an exacting science. Recent vast improvement efforts in IM products have them very well constructed and very uniform and in my opinion better than ever.

Think about how man evolved....much the same scenerio. Neanderthals in todays world would not do well but the steady evolution from that "primitive being" made the human species better.......(oh, by the way, did the Neanderthals really exist?)RS

Have you ever taken an allen wrench and placed it between the spring and handle (1/4" wrench that just barely fits in = 1/4" mount)? That's how I measure depth on my adjustable grippers. It would be interesting to see what your P4 is mounted at vs. what it was thought to be at (1/4"). Sounds like it would be deeper than 1/4" by the way you describe the spring. That makes sense about the chrome (nutshell analogy)

Edited by jad
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climber511

Chrome will add a few thousanths .001-.003. Also, like a shell on a nut chrome adds rigidity to the spring. One thing I did notice as compared with my old and new #3s and 3.5s the bottom belly of the P4 spring hangs a bit below the line of the handle top ends and they do not.I don't know if a spring insertion depth gauge was used back then but, that being prototype/or special item as the P4 was the spring might have been inserted by "estimating" proper depth. I HAVE built and SEEN grippers built...It is NOT an exacting science. Recent vast improvement efforts in IM products have them very well constructed and very uniform and in my opinion better than ever.

Think about how man evolved....much the same scenerio. Neanderthals in todays world would not do well but the steady evolution from that "primitive being" made the human species better.......(oh, by the way, did the Neanderthals really exist?)RS

But from what I have read - the Neanderthals might have made good lifters and grip guys :)

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Wade Gillingham

Has anyone ever tried to make a gripper with a stainless spring? That would be cool; polished stainless I mean.

Steel varies a ton and it can be heck on benders. I've definately noticed it varying from inch to inch, especially on hot rolled steel.

Tim

RB330 and RB400 are both stainless, but from what I have been told by spring engineers, stainless doesn't have any better properties as a spring material than oil tempered or music wire, just added corrosion resistance. RB uses it because the material he is using has slightly less resistance than the non-stainless springs. The 330 is the same wire size as the 365, but the stainless makes it easier. I'm not sure if this works or not but I have closed a 330N and the 365N I have feels like a brick in comparison to the 330 I closed. But then again, maybe it was an easy 330??

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DannyGrip

I thought I'd post this question on here since it relates to Classic Grippers.

I'm sure there are some that own the original Warren Tetting IronMan grippers -

Light, Heavy, Extra Heavy, and Super.

I believe Richard has them, I do recall reading something in the Captains of Crush book about Richard comparing his #2 with his old Extra Heavy gripper and saying that it was only a few lbs off.

Does anyone know how the Classic Grippers from 1964 - 1977 compare with the Captains of Crush grippers.

Light = Trainer

Heavy = #1

Extra Heavy = #2

Super = #3

I'm assuming that's how it was since these are the 4 strengths Warren made for IronMind from 1991-1992.

Out of curiosity, does anyone own them?

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I have the first grippers that Warren Tetting made for Ironmind. All the IM Silver Crush Grippers were made by Tetting. I Used to order and shut ( still have them) the 80's grippers that Mr Tetting produced in conjunction with Iron Man. After I got to the point I was shutting the Ironman Super Duty I began giving some away to friends and customers. I do remember the afternoon that I requested my secretary to order a batch more "Super's" and Mr. Tetting asked her " just what is he doing with those grippers, no one can close them" When she mentioned "well, he can and does" started my verbal contact and conversations with Mr. Tetting. To avoid all "questions" as to what I was shutting he sent me a pristine "Super Duty" painted red and asked me to provide a picture of closing it. We sent him a picture soon after and from then on it has all been as they say...history. I still have that red "Super" It is a comfortable gripper feeling like a medium-easy present day #3 if I had to describe it. The Silver Crush grippers though they "varied" were as a rule beautiful and always on the difficult side. Even the early #1,and #2 were "very" stout grippers which few men could close. To this day they remain the same.RS

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DannyGrip

I have the first grippers that Warren Tetting made for Ironmind. All the IM Silver Crush Grippers were made by Tetting. I Used to order and shut ( still have them) the 80's grippers that Mr Tetting produced in conjunction with Iron Man. After I got to the point I was shutting the Ironman Super Duty I began giving some away to friends and customers. I do remember the afternoon that I requested my secretary to order a batch more "Super's" and Mr. Tetting asked her " just what is he doing with those grippers, no one can close them" When she mentioned "well, he can and does" started my verbal contact and conversations with Mr. Tetting. To avoid all "questions" as to what I was shutting he sent me a pristine "Super Duty" painted red and asked me to provide a picture of closing it. We sent him a picture soon after and from then on it has all been as they say...history. I still have that red "Super" It is a comfortable gripper feeling like a medium-easy present day #3 if I had to describe it. The Silver Crush grippers though they "varied" were as a rule beautiful and always on the difficult side. Even the early #1,and #2 were "very" stout grippers which few men could close. To this day they remain the same.RS

I thought the silver crush grippers from 1993-1995 were produced by IronMind, or these grippers weren't labeled as "silver crush" but rather "captains fo crush" ?

I heard the lifespan on those early silver crush grippers was very short and that may account for the reason why all the easy ones vanished, leaving only the hard ones that were closed a lot less.

Richard, was the Extra Heavy about the same as the #2?

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This is only from memory and I really didn't do much with the lighter grippers. Mid grade Iron Man extra heavy was around the level of a mid to hard present #2. A really tough gripper for the day was the Silvercrush #2. I had one out in a resturant/store for years as a "challenge" for any customer to shut it(for 2 cases of beer by the owner) and only one man won the beer. I dont "think" the Silver crush grippers were produced much past 1993. I have a few "interum" grippers that the handles were of different material and fastening methods untill IM settled on the black spring/aluminum handle unit style. I know I have some of plain steel and stainless steel handles. I even have an early one I painted gold for my son to take to show and tell that was a #3 that tested 176 on Chris Rice's calibrator( it is a bear!). I actually had a "kid" (18) in later years with my son in college that came a hair of closing that one. He would take a regular #3 of "his era" and snap it shut laughing and drinking a beer with the other hand. I can mention he had the NCAA record for a bit in the 35lb. weight throw and is now a strength coach.

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DannyGrip

This is only from memory and I really didn't do much with the lighter grippers. Mid grade Iron Man extra heavy was around the level of a mid to hard present #2. A really tough gripper for the day was the Silvercrush #2. I had one out in a resturant/store for years as a "challenge" for any customer to shut it(for 2 cases of beer by the owner) and only one man won the beer. I dont "think" the Silver crush grippers were produced much past 1993. I have a few "interum" grippers that the handles were of different material and fastening methods untill IM settled on the black spring/aluminum handle unit style. I know I have some of plain steel and stainless steel handles. I even have an early one I painted gold for my son to take to show and tell that was a #3 that tested 176 on Chris Rice's calibrator( it is a bear!). I actually had a "kid" (18) in later years with my son in college that came a hair of closing that one. He would take a regular #3 of "his era" and snap it shut laughing and drinking a beer with the other hand. I can mention he had the NCAA record for a bit in the 35lb. weight throw and is now a strength coach.

This all such amazing stuff to hear :)

I love the history behind this.

Rich, you got a great memory for these things - wish I was into grip in those days (but I was just a young kid back then - didn't even hit my teens yet).

That #3 that tested 176 is a total beast - it's like a #3.5 of today!

I wonder how hard that Silver Crush #2 was - I can close a hard #2.5 fairly easy - would I still have a hard time with that Silver Crush #2?

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Richard,

Keep those stories coming! I love reading about the history as well.

Tim

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I just said goodbye to the Ashlasnd College throwers crew an the young grip horse Craig Call that easily lifted the original Blob sevreral times with his "weak" hand. We talked more and he stated he came within a hair of certing on the #3 at 19 years of age. I ran a "little test" with him and brought out my 1991 cert Silver Crush #3, the Phantom 4, and a present day #3. I asked him to squeeze each of the 3s and describe what he felt. Then, try to shut them (he did use a set) Then, let him give the P4 a "go". He has in training done a 3.5 so I figure he would do well..............When he blind tried the 3's he said "one is a good bit harder especially in the "sweep", it was the Silver crush #3. When he tried shutting the 3's the normal 3 went shut in a flash almost too "easy". The Silver #3 went down to about 1/4" and stopped. When he clamped the P4 it stayed about half way down(1") and he said "this is like a hard 3.5...I have a 4 and it is "close" to that." So, I thought it was interesting to see a young grip guys perspective on "things" he has heard of. I also let the rest of the group try the Gold #3 that I mentioned in a previous post since they ALL knew of the thrower that used it years before. They all were pretty horrified by it. I really had some fun today meeting some fine young athletes and the coach Logan that made them even "more than that".RS

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Bob Lipinski

I have posted about this elsewhere numerous times- The Tetting Super at Larkin's is around a 3.5.

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AuCraigCall

When I was at Sorinex and gave the Phantom 4 go, I will say that it is tighter than any #3.5 I have tried or closed. My gripper strength is not quite at its full strength now with my right hand due to lack of training during my throwing season, but I can definitely say with full honesty that the Phantom 4 is an incredibly tight gripper that would challenge many of the grip guys around. Big thanks to Richard once again for letting me try it out and for the blast I had at Sorinex this past weekend.

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The gold #3 after many years being tried by hundreds at the throwers at their version of "Animal House" behind the track at U of South Carolina.Most all of the gold paint was worn off but still you can see it.The spring measures .286" and is pinned into the handle just like the Silvers were. It is all steel with a black spring and knurled handle. No number stamp on it as the early Silver Crush grippers were. The "golden" picture you posted was (I think) of a young man I witnessed being certed in Miami long ago. I guess the light just hit that gripper end at an odd angle.RS

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Gee,That teenager I certed is now 27 that was 9 years ago! We were putting in the U Miami football weight room and Pedro showed up for his cert. As I remember he made pretty quick work of the #3 that day. Time does fly.RS

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