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The Phantom 4


Volko Krull

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bencrush

As someone who has actually squeezed a Phantom 4, I will say with authority that it is about a 3.878.

Hahaha, you mean to tell me - you just closed it and you came up with the # of 3.878 ?

Why 3.878 and not 3.872 ?

I'm wondering, can you pick up a 45 lbs dumbell in the gym and just by picking it up determine if it's really 45.321 lbs ?

Unless you actually measured the Phantom 4 - I find it a bit strange that you can come up with such an assessment just by feel.

He's just screwing with you man. Rex has a very healthy sense of humor. :D

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I closed it with a mm set,parallel.It's no #3.5 its a tuff #4.Little Dave Morton closed it right after I did at GGC in 2005?Not sure on the year.

DannyGrip

As someone who has actually squeezed a Phantom 4, I will say with authority that it is about a 3.878.

Hahaha, you mean to tell me - you just closed it and you came up with the # of 3.878 ?

Why 3.878 and not 3.872 ?

I'm wondering, can you pick up a 45 lbs dumbell in the gym and just by picking it up determine if it's really 45.321 lbs ?

Unless you actually measured the Phantom 4 - I find it a bit strange that you can come up with such an assessment just by feel.

He's just screwing with you man. Rex has a very healthy sense of humor. biggrin.gif

Hahahaha, that's what I thought!

But jokes aside, the Phantom 4 is about a 3.8, agreed?

Edited by DannyGrip
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Cannon

Hahahaha, that's what I thought!

But jokes aside, the Phantom 4 is about a 3.8, agreed?

No. Richard said he got 186, not 3.8. The conversion to a 1-2-3-4 scale is arbitrary and only builds more "fudge" into an admittedly flawed measuring system.

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bencrush

[quote name='DannyGrip' date='16 March 2010 - 09:32 PM'

Hahahaha, that's what I thought!

But jokes aside, the Phantom 4 is about a 3.8, agreed?

If you take 186lbs divided by 51 (close enough on the Euro scale) you'll get about a 3.64 rating.

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186#, especially if it was oiled prior to calibration, on those slick handles and wide spread would be a nightmare. I'm sure this will largely fall on deaf ears though and people will call it a 3.5 or a tough 3.5 but not an elite because there is a magical difference between 3.5's and elites. :upsidedwn

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Bob Lipinski

Forget the numbers, listen to the guys who know what they are talking about. If it came down to an RGC reading vs. what Josh, Tommy, Richard, or many other experienced guys say, I would take their word for it.

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acorn

Forget the numbers, listen to the guys who know what they are talking about. If it came down to an RGC reading vs. what Josh, Tommy, Richard, or many other experienced guys say, I would take their word for it.

I agree, very stout gripper! There are certainly factors that can make a gripper feel alot harder than a simple RGC number or spring diameter might suggest. Just ask anyone who has tried and failed on the MM3 cert. By the numbers you would think it to be about like a decently tough #3.5, but plenty of guys stronger than that have missed on it due to the spring bind at the very last part of the close. Wider spread, and chromed slippery handles would be El Diablo.

- Aaron

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Some real thinking here! I agree with Mr. Acorn as how it might be logicaly described. I doubt if anyone out there presently could do it credit card set with it. Tex and Rich sure can't. Some of the real greats out there have tried it with a set, Morton, Woodall,Helsep... I guess they might have a first hand "insight" on it. RS

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Volko Krull

Mr. Sorin, might I ask what set you employed in closing the Phantom 4? Was it a noset or

rather somewhere between a CCS an MMS in width? best regards, Volko Krull

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Back in the early 90's I never knew what a set was. By no means was it( the Phantom or any other gripper) carefully set, or placed deeply into the hand. The credit card idea was not around for another decade and a half.So, I would describe putting the gripper in my hand just enough to get my fingers on it and try to blast it shut. My normal start was about credit card width.The usual Silver Crush grippers handle width back then was 3-3-1/4". There was a DEEP bevel cut on the handle ends so measuring from the "touch points") the Phantom is 3" and my first cert #3 is 3 1/8" all the recent gripper hanging in our room seem to be a uniform 2 7/8".RS

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climber511

Richard - I'm curious - how many grippers do you have? I know its a bunch - have you counted lately?

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DannyGrip

Back in the early 90's I never knew what a set was. By no means was it( the Phantom or any other gripper) carefully set, or placed deeply into the hand. The credit card idea was not around for another decade and a half.So, I would describe putting the gripper in my hand just enough to get my fingers on it and try to blast it shut. My normal start was about credit card width.The usual Silver Crush grippers handle width back then was 3-3-1/4". There was a DEEP bevel cut on the handle ends so measuring from the "touch points") the Phantom is 3" and my first cert #3 is 3 1/8" all the recent gripper hanging in our room seem to be a uniform 2 7/8".RS

I think that all the grippers below the #3 right now are a uniform 2 7/8".

All the new #3's I've seen are exactly at 3" and most likely around 155 lbs on the RGC.

I do own a 2 7/8" #3 which definitely feels easier than my 3" #3.

My assumption is that the 2 7/8" #3 rates at around 145 lbs.

The Phantom 4 has a rating of 3.8 on the RGC, so it makes sense that the guys who can close the #3.5 with a CCS cannot close this gripper.

Then again, the sleek handles and different feel on the gripper (it being Steel, not aluminum) makes it even tougher to close.

Richard: Why haven't you confronted Strossen about this issue, which he stated in his book that it's just a gripper a bit harder than a #3.

Even on the Captains of Crush website he states it isn't a #4. Strossen seems to want to be right on these things, but it's just conflicting information.

The phantom 4

In the category of history repeating itself, the same source that promulgated the myth of dog legs and seasoning, told the world that Richard Sorin had a "phantom 4 gripper," a pre—No. 4 CoC Gripper that was tougher than a regular No. 4—and that Richard had closed it. The gripper in question came from IronMind, and we can tell you unequivocally that it certainly was not a No. 4 (phantom or otherwise), but just a little harder than a No. 3 CoC Gripper.

Edited by DannyGrip
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Chris, I guess all told now about 200 grippers, 15 anvils, 2 pinch apparatrus,about a dozen thick bar axles, 4 rolling thunders, about 65 blobs with a about 15 fatman and newer 50's, 4 Inch bells ,4 Circus Bells, 4 smaller shot loading bells, and a good bit of "other" stuff.RS

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climber511

Chris, I guess all told now about 200 grippers, 15 anvils, 2 pinch apparatrus,about a dozen thick bar axles, 4 rolling thunders, about 65 blobs with a about 15 fatman and newer 50's, 4 Inch bells ,4 Circus Bells, 4 smaller shot loading bells, and a good bit of "other" stuff.RS

Talk about one incredible photo! A weeks work laying it all out - a big parking lot to hold it and an aerial photo to get it all in. Congrats on a terrific collection! No doubt a lifetime of acquiring things - very nice!

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dubthewonderscot

 

Danny...i can't answer for Mr. Sorrin, but my guess is that friends don't "confront" each other over silly things like the variable quality of torsion spring grippers.

good grief we get silly over this.

Edited by dubthewonderscot
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Its more about memories than things. I have gathered this stuff to share with those interested in grip OR after a good experience will be. Those out there that aspire to aquire fame better embrace and protect the history of their sport because the past predicts the future and reinforces true levels of achievement. RS

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Wow thanks for sharing all this Richard! Very interesting read.

Has any of the big closers ever tried that monster #4 of "Big Nasty"?

Tim

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DannyGrip

 

Danny...i can't answer for Mr. Sorrin, but my guess is that friends don't "confront" each other over silly things like the variable quality of torsion spring grippers.

good grief we get silly over this.

"Good friends" can confront each other over silly things like the variability of grippers, especially when that good friend is using your name in one of his books.

Makes sense?

It's time to get things straight - the RGC shows most CoC's can vary in about 10 lbs or so on average.

Now the RGC rating is about half the CoC rating in lbs.

So this means that a Hard CoC #3 rated at 280 lbs, can really be 300-310 lbs or so on the CoC scale.

The Phantom 4 Gripper is a Hard #3.5 on the RGC with a rating of 186, then the CoC rating would be around 340 lbs for it?

80 lbs more than the rating of the CoC #3 and Strossen calls it "but just a littler harder than a No. 3 CoC Gripper"?

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bencrush

Wow thanks for sharing all this Richard! Very interesting read.

Has any of the big closers ever tried that monster #4 of "Big Nasty"?

Tim

Good luck on that #4 to anyone who tries it. Andrew Durniat gave Jason's "Heartbreaker" (190lb+ #3) a shot after the Dino Grip Challenge last month. And that's about 50lbs "easier" than Jason's #4.

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Cannon

Danny, your posts often read like a smorgasbord of fallacies in reasoning. I can tell you're interested in the topic, but you're trying way too hard to fabricate some revelation from a question which has already been answered. The gripper is as described above.

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acorn

 

Danny...i can't answer for Mr. Sorrin, but my guess is that friends don't "confront" each other over silly things like the variable quality of torsion spring grippers.

good grief we get silly over this.

"Good friends" can confront each other over silly things like the variability of grippers, especially when that good friend is using your name in one of his books.

Makes sense?

It's time to get things straight - the RGC shows most CoC's can vary in about 10 lbs or so on average.

Now the RGC rating is about half the CoC rating in lbs.

So this means that a Hard CoC #3 rated at 280 lbs, can really be 300-310 lbs or so on the CoC scale.

The Phantom 4 Gripper is a Hard #3.5 on the RGC with a rating of 186, then the CoC rating would be around 340 lbs for it?

80 lbs more than the rating of the CoC #3 and Strossen calls it "but just a littler harder than a No. 3 CoC Gripper"?

Danny if you have a problem with the way Mr. Strossen words the relevent factoids regarding "his" grippers maybe you should bring that up with him. Maybe Mr. Sorin has, maybe he hasn't but either way thats Mr. Sorin's business IMHO.

- Aaron

Edited by acorn
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Captain Sam

I have a monster #4 (240ibs RGC)) that i will give to Martin A the next time i see him.

I will never ever have the motivation to go that far in the gripper game so it will be intresting to see what martin can do with it as he actualy has closed a #4 before...

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If it is of interest to Jad and others the spring (chromed) on the P4 is on an accurate caliper .296".I spoke with an owner of a machine shop that produces precision shafts ect. for submarines and such and he knows more than a little about tempering and metals. He said "where the spring was placed in the tempering and drawing oven matters , How long it was left in ,quality and composition of steel from batch to batch......was there rust on the spring wire, did the work shift change, or a lunchtime break run late and perhaps springs cooked a bit longer than needed,you can't explain it all". A lot of unseen variables are present in steel and tempering.I am amazed after it is all said and done why any of our findings make sense.RS

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Wow thanks for sharing all this Richard! Very interesting read.

Has any of the big closers ever tried that monster #4 of "Big Nasty"?

Tim

Good luck on that #4 to anyone who tries it. Andrew Durniat gave Jason's "Heartbreaker" (190lb+ #3) a shot after the Dino Grip Challenge last month. And that's about 50lbs "easier" than Jason's #4.

How'd he do on that one? Didn't it have a freaky wide spread as well?

Tim

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