jad Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 After carefully reading the USAWA rules and learning first hand that keeping your arm locked/straight makes a HUGE difference I'd like to know how many of you actually believe Grimek's record of 11.75#? I just don't know.. Since Rex is the current king of the front lever, I'd be curious as to what he could do on the front weaver under the USAWA rules. If you haven't tried it under the USAWA rules, please do so before commenting as it's totally different than with the bent arm. www.usawa.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 After carefully reading the USAWA rules and learning first hand that keeping your arm locked/straight makes a HUGE difference I'd like to know how many of you actually believe Grimek's record of 11.75#? I just don't know.. Since Rex is the current king of the front lever, I'd be curious as to what he could do on the front weaver under the USAWA rules. If you haven't tried it under the USAWA rules, please do so before commenting as it's totally different than with the bent arm. www.usawa.com That's a good lift to the rear - to the front - that is incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripmaniac Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) Ok, so specifically: "The lifter will take a position alongside the Weaver Stick, and grip the handle of the Weaver Stick by one hand, facing the length of the stick. The lifting hand and arm must remain straight with elbow fully locked, and must not be in contact with the body during the lift. The lifting arm must remain at the lifters side throughout the lift. The heel of the hand must remain on top of the Weaver Stick. If the hand twists under the stick during the lift, it is a disqualification. This would definitely make it a much harder lift - but I think Grimek could have accomplished it. I'm sure I've seen a pic of him doing what "looked" like 10ish pounds somewhere. . .aaah.. .here it is: http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/oldtime-strongman-training/cd675cdddd3b695f5e07a97256d14284 Edited February 15, 2010 by gripmaniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 ^There's no daylight between the stick and the rest/he's not actually lifting anything. In that body position, it's going to be awfully hard to keep his arm straight. It already looks like it's ever-so slightly bent but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe that's as straight as his arm gets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 BTW, 8 I could believe (John Davis) but this site list Grimek's record as 11 which is 3/4# less than USAWA. That's a HUGE difference in weaver stick, I wonder where the discrepancy comes from? Andrew Durniat did 6# on this lift yesterday at the Dino Challenge. 11.75# would be almost TWICE as strong as Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Could someone post the USAWA rules for front lever in this thread? What is the USAWA record? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 Also, I'm not sure how strictly the straight hand is enforced or if that enforces itself if you keep the arm straight (can you get the clearance with a bent wrist if your arm stays straight?). Many of the front lever guys today, myself included, do it with a bent wrist and just work through the pain. For Rex: "A Weaver Stick is used for this lift. The Weaver Stick utilizes a wooden broomstick with these dimensions. The handle is 5 ½ inches in length. The junction of the handle and the rest of the Weaver Stick may be marked with tape, or with any material that is raised to provide a distinct separation between the handle and the rest of the stick. This marking is ½ inch in length. At a point exactly 36 inches from the end of the marking, or 42 inches from the end of the handle, a notch is made in the stick to allow a cord to be attached to it. This cord may be of any length. Weight is tied onto the end of the cord. The Weaver Stick must rest on a flat lifting surface with the weight hanging free. The lift will begin at the lifter’s discretion. The lifter will take a position alongside the Weaver Stick, and grip the handle of the Weaver Stick by one hand, facing the length of the stick. The lifting hand and arm must remain straight with elbow fully locked, and must not be in contact with the body during the lift. The lifting arm must remain at the lifter’s side throughout the lift. The heel of the hand must remain on top of the Weaver Stick. If the hand twists under the stick during the lift, it is a disqualification. The non-lifting hand must not touch the lifting arm, lifting hand, or Weaver Stick during the lift. The lifter’s body must be upright with legs straight at the completion of the lift, but the legs may bend when picking up the stick. The Weaver Stick must be lifted entirely clear from the lifting surface while maintaining the stick parallel to the floor. If the end of the stick containing the weight dips to any degree, it is a disqualification. If the lifting hand moves to a position in front of the handle marking during the lift, it is a disqualification. Once the Weaver Stick is motionless, an official will give a command to end the lift. Records are also kept for the Weaver Stick with the lifter facing backwards, away from the length of the stick." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USAWA record is 7#, which is monsterous but achievable. Give 7# a spin and then try 11.75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 ^There's no daylight between the stick and the rest/he's not actually lifting anything. In that body position, it's going to be awfully hard to keep his arm straight. It already looks like it's ever-so slightly bent but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe that's as straight as his arm gets? And the USAWA rules (not saying that Grimek was bound by those rules of course) say the arm has to be straight beside the body and that involves standing straight up and then having locked legs at the completion of the lift. The judging was very strict. I didn't see anyone get a lift passed with any degree of "unnatural" (my term) elbow bend. By unnatural, I mean anything more than what a lifter already has as part of their normal structure. Andrew did 6lbs on this and I, along with 2 other guys, did 5lbs. The only one to also do 6lbs was Al's dad - Laverne Myers. He's 65 years old and made a very solid lift. Al's dad has a big strong "farm strong" hand and is just all around strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just like Al said, strict judging means everything in this lift. I have to admit that I wouldn't want to try to judge the lift because to me it's hard to tell how much of an elbow bend is natural and when that starts to shift even a tiny bit. Anyone who's done this lift knows that the body just tries to bend the elbow to make the lift easier, without even consciously trying to "cheat" on the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 ^There's no daylight between the stick and the rest/he's not actually lifting anything. In that body position, it's going to be awfully hard to keep his arm straight. It already looks like it's ever-so slightly bent but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe that's as straight as his arm gets? And the USAWA rules (not saying that Grimek was bound by those rules of course) say the arm has to be straight beside the body and that involves standing straight up and then having locked legs at the completion of the lift. The judging was very strict. I didn't see anyone get a lift passed with any degree of "unnatural" (my term) elbow bend. By unnatural, I mean anything more than what a lifter already has as part of their normal structure. Andrew did 6lbs on this and I, along with 2 other guys, did 5lbs. The only one to also do 6lbs was Al's dad - Laverne Myers. He's 65 years old and made a very solid lift. Al's dad has a big strong "farm strong" hand and is just all around strong. Well, this changes everything. If Grimek didn't do it under USAWA rules or USAWA didn't take their rules from the way Grimek did it, then I can believe 11.75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just like Al said, strict judging means everything in this lift. I have to admit that I wouldn't want to try to judge the lift because to me it's hard to tell how much of an elbow bend is natural and when that starts to shift even a tiny bit. Anyone who's done this lift knows that the body just tries to bend the elbow to make the lift easier, without even consciously trying to "cheat" on the lift. They should just tourniquet it down to a 2x4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I believe that's the problem I'd have with that record. I have trouble keeping my arm straight even with light hammer DL's. My brain just won't listen to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just like Al said, strict judging means everything in this lift. I have to admit that I wouldn't want to try to judge the lift because to me it's hard to tell how much of an elbow bend is natural and when that starts to shift even a tiny bit. Anyone who's done this lift knows that the body just tries to bend the elbow to make the lift easier, without even consciously trying to "cheat" on the lift. They should just tourniquet it down to a 2x4! I think that's a valid idea really. I don't like any leeway when it's something the body just gravitates towards doing - increasing leverage when possible. Again though, the judging was very strict. Guys were getting plenty of Weaver attempts turned down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I'm not saying that nobody will be able to lift 12lbs or more in the style we used. Just stating that it's a pretty restrictive lift when done with the elbow locked and the arm held rigidly at the side (but not touching the body). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Looks like John Grimek used the rules from the guy who made the Weaver Stick, a little different from USAWA. http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/08/weaver-stick-george-r-weaver.html Oh yeah, where are the dino results? Are they up yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Looks like John Grimek used the rules from the guy who made the Weaver Stick, a little different from USAWA. http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/08/weaver-stick-george-r-weaver.html Oh yeah, where are the dino results? Are they up yet? The Dino Grip Challenge results are already up on the USAWA site Bob. The results are posted in age-adjusted and Lynch formula format. Andrew hit some superb numbers! I guessed extremely close on his lifts. Check out his insane One-Hand Thumbless-Grip Deadlift. Pulled it with ease to the front, instead of straddle-style. Even Al Myers was amazed by his 308lb pull. He said it wasn't a max, and it sure didn't look close to it from the picture I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I think I'm a pretty by-the-book guy when it comes to judging lifts but I've often wondered what the point is of rules that are so hard to judge like this - I mean, as even a fraction of arm bend can make a sizeable difference in poundage potential, and as that fraction is extremely difficult to judge, would it not be best just to do away with it from a standpoint of practicality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I think I'm a pretty by-the-book guy when it comes to judging lifts but I've often wondered what the point is of rules that are so hard to judge like this - I mean, as even a fraction of arm bend can make a sizeable difference in poundage potential, and as that fraction is extremely difficult to judge, would it not be best just to do away with it from a standpoint of practicality? I wouldn't get rid of it entirely. But Josh had a suggestion of maybe strapping the arm to a board or something similar to that. That makes more sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Why is the weight on a string? I've never understood that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Why is the weight on a string? I've never understood that. Grimek just didn't have the mechanical sense to do anything but jerry-rig it. I can't see any other explanation. From a safety point of view, it gets an F. From a performance point of view, it gets an F. But gripsters are slaves to tradition, so instead of racing with McLarens we stick to Model T's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Why is the weight on a string? I've never understood that. It doesn't need to be. I used a light chain on the set-up we have here. But it's about levering the weight and not the stick and what else has been used. For example we do NOT count the weight of the set up - only the poundage added. Re John G. He was, unless I'm mistaken, lifting PRE the USAWA rules so comparisons are pointless on that basis. If he lifted in the USAWA would he have done 12 lbs? No. Of course I have no doubt he'd still get a record because of the age, weight etc etc divisions they have. I'd be surprised if there's an actual member who doesn't have a record in some division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 Why is the weight on a string? I've never understood that. Because Grimek was just a stupid oldtimer and didn't understand all of the advantages of making expensive, hard to reproduce implements. A modern Gripster's weaver stick is 42" of seamless, Swedish steel, with a Euro eyebolt and handstop welded on. The weight is attached using a 40 dollar IM carabiner connecting the eyebolt to a piece of FHS special stock manilla rope. The rope in addition to being weather proof, mark proof, and chalk proof, is spliced with IM carabiner ready adapters at both ends, for an easy and reproducible connection at each end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) You neglected to mention it's wi-fi connectivity, laser sight and digital barometer LOL Edited February 15, 2010 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifesnotfair Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 LOL, that was funny!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Why is the weight on a string? I've never understood that. Because Grimek was just a stupid oldtimer and didn't understand all of the advantages of making expensive, hard to reproduce implements. A modern Gripster's weaver stick is 42" of seamless, Swedish steel, with a Euro eyebolt and handstop welded on. The weight is attached using a 40 dollar IM carabiner connecting the eyebolt to a piece of FHS special stock manilla rope. The rope in addition to being weather proof, mark proof, and chalk proof, is spliced with IM carabiner ready adapters at both ends, for an easy and reproducible connection at each end. If they are individually serial numbered, my credit card is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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