What's A Legit Rotator Lift, You Think?

[astrojetred]

Any thoughts? I was able to rig up 80 lb. on my karate belt, and was able to hold it. I even isolated my wrist at times, so my biceps wouldn't slip. That's all the weight I have :/

Care to chyme in, Joe?

Edited January 30, 2010 by Puller

[jad]

So are you starting with your palm facing up then using just your wrist to pronate it over (arm locked into side, elbow at 90)? I think Devon said he did 200# on this lift but he admitted it wasn't strict but for AW I don't know that training it strict would be what you'd want anyway.

[astrojetred]

All lifts are static or negative. So no, I'm not rotating my wrist. You can cheat by bringing your hand up higher than your elbow. Takes a lot of weight off. Pretty much just lifting with your legs, with a high enough cheat, haha.

[jad]

I've seen pics of Engin doing static rotator off the side of a cable weight stack or he was just using a band (band/cable about waist high) but how do you perform a static with a karate belt and taking it from the ground (like Larrat)with rotator? Isn't is just a static hammer curl at that point or maybe a static front lever if you have the belt looped out far enough on your hand?

Thanks

Josh

[astrojetred]

No, it's looped around the thumb, and over the back of the hand. The pressure has to be on the thumb, for it to be effective. Levering doesn't work it as well.

[jad]

Right, I knew it was looped around the thumb but I didn't know how your wrist was positioned for a static. It your hand/wrist neutral (like a hammer curl)?

[astrojetred]

yes

[mightyjoe]

Any thoughts? I was able to rig up 80 lb. on my karate belt, and was able to hold it. I even isolated my wrist at times, so my biceps wouldn't slip. That's all the weight I have :/

Care to chyme in, Joe?

Sure! With the belt looped around your thumb and your palm up, now rotate your hand

to where your thumb is up now in a hammer curl position (full range pronation).

Statics in this position is good but don't leave out the full range pronation movements either.

Both together make a great combo for strong rotator strength. I like placing a rubber

tube between the weight and the belt for full range rotators. You can get pretty aggressive

without the full load of the weight jarring your tendon/ligaments structure (prevents tendonitis flare).

80 lbs. is good, 125 plus would put your rotator strength at near elite levels IMO.

Stay with it and recover well and you'll go far.

Hope this helps my friend.

[astrojetred]

Any thoughts? I was able to rig up 80 lb. on my karate belt, and was able to hold it. I even isolated my wrist at times, so my biceps wouldn't slip. That's all the weight I have :/

Care to chyme in, Joe?

Sure! With the belt looped around your thumb and your palm up, now rotate your hand

to where your thumb is up now in a hammer curl position (full range pronation).

Statics in this position is good but don't leave out the full range pronation movements either.

Both together make a great combo for strong rotator strength. I like placing a rubber

tube between the weight and the belt for full range rotators. You can get pretty aggressive

without the full load of the weight jarring your tendon/ligaments structure (prevents tendonitis flare).

80 lbs. is good, 125 plus would put your rotator strength at near elite levels IMO.

Stay with it and recover well and you'll go far.

Hope this helps my friend.

@ bold: This was the info that I was after.

I wanted to know where my rotator stands.

Thanks, Joe!

[hugh..mongus]

cuban presses have helped me out tremendously. i was having bad problems after partially seperating both coller bones and screwing up my rotaters from 2 seperate benching injuries a few years back. i was talking with travis lyndon at a competition in ontario and he highly recomended cuban presses, i didnt know what they were, he explained them to me and warned me to go light he said "when i was pressing a 390 log i was only using 95 lbs on cuban presses"

[lifesnotfair]

Hugh: that is very interesting! About a week ago I started a rehab/strengthening for my rotator cuffs (I've had AC joint surgery in both sides) and got depressed 3 days ago and quit when doing the Cuban presses. They make something in my left shoulder make a click sound (and not a bone, more like a ligament or a muscle) and caused mild discomfort so I quit. This happened, however, after doing 3 sets of 8 with 40# pounds ... and my max ever shoulder press was not even 1/3rd of this guy you mention. And he used 95#! You say he warned you to go light. This is interesting and gives me hope. I'll drop the weight and try again.

[raikkonen]

whats a rotator lift? any pics?

[fightertrainer]

whats a rotator lift? any pics?

The way the guys 've been talking, rotator lift means you start with you hand in hammer position. Then under the load you pronate your hand, till your palm face down. If the load is on your hand via strap around your thumb meat pad, it's risky IMO. But it could be in your hand as well. But rotating could also mean supinating your hand/wrist. This is my primary exercise. BUt since my hand can handle only so much load, I add weight to my wrist using strap attched to cable hook. Hope fully that way my forearm and upper arm will be exhausted at the same time. I prefer using bands for my hand rotating exercise. I don't know about you guys, but for me 30# of weight (on wrist) plus the green band (in hand) from Jumpstretch.com is more than enough for now. Band grip your hand like crazy. As you lean away the load increase dramaticly. What I like about this is you have the cable weight as basic load, then the band in hand give another angle of load to rotate against. Green band is about 65 lbs load tension, depends...BTW, I like to rotate my hand during the shortest contraction of my forearm with wrist bend as much as I can. But as you get tired, it will flaten out a bit. I use the compounded lift, meaning NO isolation! How can you isolate it when the actually match requires you to use them all together. This happened when I Aw agaist a bodybuilder, who did isolated wrist curl to have 16" forearm. I beat him fairly easy with my then smaller forearm (11.5")

I use all 3 angles of pull: low , medium and high works for me. LOw works on bicep, plus forearm. High works on tricep, plus forearm pronator muscles. Medium (forearm in AW position) works all, plus sidepressure hit. Actually all angles could be a sidepressure hit by turn your body. My goal is: 50# plate weight plus blue band (80 plus #). Maybe by summer or so, which is very lame right now . I also have gotten 3/4" increase in forearm size since I train this way measured cold and bent elbow.

Edited March 26, 2010 by fightertrainer

[Schweinemann]

do you guys bent (a little bit) your wrist while rotator lifts or is your wrist straight? To me it makes a big difference. I think a bent wrist is more likely to real armwrestling and i can move more weight, but i feel like a bad stress on my thumb tendon, so what you think works better and keeps your wrist healthy?

[Florian Kellersmann]

I think you should bent your wrist a bit. With a straight wrist, it feels to me like the hand/wrist could be dislocated.

[kyle102887]

I do it all in one motion and most of the time start with a regular curl position and rotate to a neutral position. I also do it at an angle from a low pulley or a low stationed jump stretch band. I feel this best hits the thumb and rotation muscles and also gives a more simulated armwrestling feel as if i was rotating out of a hook position.

[mightyjoe]

whats a rotator lift? any pics?

The way the guys 've been talking, rotator lift means you start with you hand in hammer position. Then under the load you pronate your hand, till your palm face down. If the load is on your hand via strap around your thumb meat pad, it's risky IMO. But it could be in your hand as well. But rotating could also mean supinating your hand/wrist. This is my primary exercise. BUt since my hand can handle only so much load, I add weight to my wrist using strap attched to cable hook. Hope fully that way my forearm and upper arm will be exhausted at the same time. I prefer using bands for my hand rotating exercise. I don't know about you guys, but for me 30# of weight (on wrist) plus the green band (in hand) from Jumpstretch.com is more than enough for now. Band grip your hand like crazy. As you lean away the load increase dramaticly. What I like about this is you have the cable weight as basic load, then the band in hand give another angle of load to rotate against. Green band is about 65 lbs load tension, depends...BTW, I like to rotate my hand during the shortest contraction of my forearm with wrist bend as much as I can. But as you get tired, it will flaten out a bit. I use the compounded lift, meaning NO isolation! How can you isolate it when the actually match requires you to use them all together. This happened when I Aw agaist a bodybuilder, who did isolated wrist curl to have 16" forearm. I beat him fairly easy with my then smaller forearm (11.5")

I use all 3 angles of pull: low , medium and high works for me. LOw works on bicep, plus forearm. High works on tricep, plus forearm pronator muscles. Medium (forearm in AW position) works all, plus sidepressure hit. Actually all angles could be a sidepressure hit by turn your body. My goal is: 50# plate weight plus blue band (80 plus #). Maybe by summer or so, which is very lame right now . I also have gotten 3/4" increase in forearm size since I train this way measured cold and bent elbow.

One small correction. On a rotator lift your starting position should be palm facing up

and pronating to neutral position with thumb up as in a hammer curl. Starting neutral and pronating

palm down is not what a rotator lift is. Watch Devon's video on this exercise (it's good) and

pay attention to his moevment. In a controlled top-roll move the palm is rarely facing down. It

only takes a quarter movement of pronation to take control in a top-roll. High hand especially, low hand

a little more but not palm down. I've never seen a seasoned AW do rotator lifts as you described.

[fightertrainer]

Rotations of forearm: clockwise or counter-clockwise are all called rotations. Toproll to win is pronation no matter how you look at it. Even sidepressure to win will make you hand pronate relative to neutral position. When you in in hook could be different IMO. It's mainly supination. But if you lose, you hand tends to supinate from neutral position. Except if you try to toproll and lose in that position with your hand would face down with wrist bend (goosenecking). lOsing and recovering to win is also different, because it depends on how you will recover into hook or toproll to win. This is only my observation perspective as a trainer. IMO, in training you don't have to limit the range of your rotation. I say about 1/4 turn is regular but it could be more with body English. As the weight get real heavy the range will be limited

Since I focus on rotation training, my forearm gain 3/4". BUt mostly from the inner forearm. I can say I have fat forearm belly for the first time in 53 years. It seems to grow steadily still on the inside part. Outside muscles are still suck! Time to go to sleep.

BTW Joe, a lift IMO is when the weight being lifted up. No, I didn't think about with the weight plates hanging on the hand straight down. With cable any angle is still a lift, that's why I like cable and bands. I hope I make it clear

Edited March 27, 2010 by fightertrainer

[Schweinemann]

I think you should bent your wrist a bit. With a straight wrist, it feels to me like the hand/wrist could be dislocated.

--> right, i feel the same. With bent wrist i feel way more solid., straight wrist makes me feel like the joint pops out.

I always had a girly wrist, but at least some people got similar problems too

[mightyjoe]

Rotations of forearm: clockwise or counter-clockwise are all called rotations. Toproll to win is pronation no matter how you look at it. Even sidepressure to win will make you hand pronate relative to neutral position. When you in in hook could be different IMO. It's mainly supination. But if you lose, you hand tends to supinate from neutral position. Except if you try to toproll and lose in that position with your hand would face down with wrist bend (goosenecking). lOsing and recovering to win is also different, because it depends on how you will recover into hook or toproll to win. This is only my observation perspective as a trainer. IMO, in training you don't have to limit the range of your rotation. I say about 1/4 turn is regular but it could be more with body English. As the weight get real heavy the range will be limited

Since I focus on rotation training, my forearm gain 3/4". BUt mostly from the inner forearm. I can say I have fat forearm belly for the first time in 53 years. It seems to grow steadily still on the inside part. Outside muscles are still suck! Time to go to sleep.

BTW Joe, a lift IMO is when the weight being lifted up. No, I didn't think about with the weight plates hanging on the hand straight down. With cable any angle is still a lift, that's why I like cable and bands. I hope I make it clear

No problem my friend. You make some good observations.

I was just pointing out that on rotator lifts, the way I described the

movement is the way I've seen it done for years.

I agree with the other obersavation about a slightly bent wrist. This

is a good point. Locks the position better and prevents possible injury

with heavy weight or tension as in cables/tubes. I use tubes also instead

of weight plates for reasons discussed on one of my videos.

[fightertrainer]

If you watch the battles between Bagent and Carrodett, Bagent toprolled so much that his palm was facing the opponent. Same thing happens when Arsen's toprolling. Watch his match vs Ruslan you will see.

BTW, I train shoulder press against (hung high) bands using both pronation and supination of hand, as well as flat hand. IMO, it still a rotation of forearm like this. But it's hard on the elbow tricep tendon, you can really feel it.

[hugh..mongus]

Hugh: that is very interesting! About a week ago I started a rehab/strengthening for my rotator cuffs (I've had AC joint surgery in both sides) and got depressed 3 days ago and quit when doing the Cuban presses. They make something in my left shoulder make a click sound (and not a bone, more like a ligament or a muscle) and caused mild discomfort so I quit. This happened, however, after doing 3 sets of 8 with 40# pounds ... and my max ever shoulder press was not even 1/3rd of this guy you mention. And he used 95#! You say he warned you to go light. This is interesting and gives me hope. I'll drop the weight and try again.

yea, he said sets of 10-15 are best with that exercise. heaviest ive ever gone is 45 lb bar and my log press is only 305. usually 35 lbs is primo for my shoulders. 45 starts getting heavy and tourqing my joints in ways i dont like. you gotta think, the rotaters are just thin muscles really. they are capable of handling decant loads but are also very prone to injury since most all trainers negect them. i fell into the powerlifters mentality years ago saying my rear delts get enough work from heavy row and such. well that strength inbalence from never training rear delts, combined with not knowing anything about rotaters, let alone training them lead to a torn rotater cuff in my left shoulder, and a partially seperated coller bone doing decline bench. 6 weeks later i was testing the recovery, i said id bench up to 185 and see how it felt, and on the 3rd rep i got exactly the same injury in my right shoulder! since then i take better care of my rotater, train my rear delts plenty and i warm up as much as it takes even if that means a 15 minute warm up to start doing incline presses

[fightertrainer]

http://www.worldofarmwrestling.com/

Look at the second pic down, how much the rotator lift do you think it is?

[Florian Kellersmann]

Good question. Maybe 65kg? 3x5, 2x10, 2x15kg?

[fightertrainer]

Good question. Maybe 65kg? 3x5, 2x10, 2x15kg?

Look in the mirror you see better there. I think there 4x35 + 3x10 = 140 + 30 = 170 lbs. I could be wrong though. The pain must very high because the rope pressure is on one side.