Joe Kinney's Claims

[Cannon]

Sometimes things just cant be explained Joes a SUPERHUMAN when it comes to gripper and thumb strength 99.9percent of the people on here could not even touch him for intensity as far as gripper workouts go his 4 close is unequalled look how easey he sets it look how easy he grinds it look at his 2 finger close in milo hes smiling look at his thumbs passing the inch from hand to hand look at his stranglehold coke can bursts etc etc no one on here and we have the best has come close to the above yet Didnt Heath say he JOE had wrists like he had never seen before also Heath said in there meet up that Joe at the end gave his hand a quick pop when they shook hands and it hurt now Heath is a 4 closer and it hurt that says to me that Joes still got masses of hand power.

Heath said that Joe had muscles around his wrist that looked almost like flower petals. I've tried to see what he means in the video of the #4 close, but couldn't pick it out.

Side note: I don't think Heath claims a #4 close. Maybe he can clarify.

[The Natural]

Has anyone with any real credibility seen Joe do anything remarkable with grip? I don't feel the need to explain why handshake strength is completely useless as an indicator of hand strength. Notice I said "seen". What I'm not interested in is Joe talking to someone with credibility, and then the credible person saying "Joe told me that..." You can see why that doesn't count as evidence.

We ought to upload an e-book on the epistemology of testimony. It's a theoretically rich field, and one that the grip community would do well to study.

[Alawadhi]

Sometimes things just cant be explained Joes a SUPERHUMAN when it comes to gripper and thumb strength 99.9percent of the people on here could not even touch him for intensity as far as gripper workouts go his 4 close is unequalled look how easey he sets it look how easy he grinds it look at his 2 finger close in milo hes smiling look at his thumbs passing the inch from hand to hand look at his stranglehold coke can bursts etc etc no one on here and we have the best has come close to the above yet Didnt Heath say he JOE had wrists like he had never seen before also Heath said in there meet up that Joe at the end gave his hand a quick pop when they shook hands and it hurt now Heath is a 4 closer and it hurt that says to me that Joes still got masses of hand power.

Heath said that Joe had muscles around his wrist that looked almost like flower petals. I've tried to see what he means in the video of the #4 close, but couldn't pick it out.

Side note: I don't think Heath claims a #4 close. Maybe he can clarify.

Yes he did and did it in front of Randy himself as a #4 cert. But Randy rejected it because he said the set was deep. This is from what I remember on what Heath said.

[jad]

Has anyone with any real credibility seen Joe do anything remarkable with grip? I don't feel the need to explain why handshake strength is completely useless as an indicator of hand strength. Notice I said "seen". What I'm not interested in is Joe talking to someone with credibility, and then the credible person saying "Joe told me that..." You can see why that doesn't count as evidence.

We ought to upload an e-book on the epistemology of testimony. It's a theoretically rich field, and one that the grip community would do well to study.

You mean outside of the Get a Grip video? I know, I know, the #4 was a fake and the cans had been tampered with and then Joe seamlessly dubbed in the sounds to make it look/sound real and to top it off he appears a little rural and aw-shucksy, just to throw people.

[kelby]

Has anyone with any real credibility seen Joe do anything remarkable with grip? I don't feel the need to explain why handshake strength is completely useless as an indicator of hand strength. Notice I said "seen". What I'm not interested in is Joe talking to someone with credibility, and then the credible person saying "Joe told me that..." You can see why that doesn't count as evidence.

We ought to upload an e-book on the epistemology of testimony. It's a theoretically rich field, and one that the grip community would do well to study.

i thought randy certified joe. other wise he wouldn't be the first man to close the number four. from the video i seen of him closing the four. he would of fit the credit card between the grippers.

[Bearcat 74]

Randy did not cert Joe.

I saw Joe take a cut #3 of mine that is filed to 3/8" on the end of the handle and it is tapered to the center ring down to 1/4" with no effort. I mean I handed him the gripper, he looked at it, squeezed, and handed it back about that fast.

[The Natural]

Randy did not cert Joe.

I saw Joe take a cut #3 of mine that is filed to 3/8" on the end of the handle and it is tapered to the center ring down to 1/4" with no effort. I mean I handed him the gripper, he looked at it, squeezed, and handed it back about that fast.

Thanks Heath. That's the sort of information I'm looking for.

[rico300zx]

Heath when was the last time you talked to Joe? What if any grip work does he do now?

Rico

[Bearcat 74]

Hmmm, I really don't know the last time we spoke. I called him a few times after we met up, he mentioned starting back training some, but I don't remember anything he said he was doing. I always enjoyed talking to Joe on the phone, he was always helpful.

[John Beatty]

Sometimes things just cant be explained Joes a SUPERHUMAN when it comes to gripper and thumb strength 99.9percent of the people on here could not even touch him for intensity as far as gripper workouts go his 4 close is unequalled look how easey he sets it look how easy he grinds it look at his 2 finger close in milo hes smiling look at his thumbs passing the inch from hand to hand look at his stranglehold coke can bursts etc etc no one on here and we have the best has come close to the above yet Didnt Heath say he JOE had wrists like he had never seen before also Heath said in there meet up that Joe at the end gave his hand a quick pop when they shook hands and it hurt now Heath is a 4 closer and it hurt that says to me that Joes still got masses of hand power.

Regarding the squats I think Joe is an extraordinary man Hig Mindset is similar to someone like the mighty atom its all or nothing with Joe and i no he would not sell himself short for a few sold copies of a dvd.

You cant compare him with Platz Tom was a squating machine and from early on he Tom squated all ways high rep low rep etc the same as you cant compare any grip workouts here with Joes hes at a much higher level intensity and power wise than anyone else has reached yet.

I love it when people mention the BIG guys body types work differently slow and fast twitch fibers and mind to muscle links come into play look at weight lifting the big guys are lucky to put double body weight over head were as the lighter guys can put 3 x and above over head so are the smaller guys less powerfull infact you could say there stronger at some things.

Sometimes you just cant explain things all these world class guys like Joe Kinney,the Mighty Atom,Pat Paviliatis,Dennis Rodgers,the Holle brothers all well under 200lbs all able to do stuff world class stuff that few can or cannot equal regardless of size what makes these men who they are is the mind strength nothing else the mind got them were they are and this you either have or you do not that why i think Joe has done and will do stuff that others will only ever dream off.

Most forums are great at wanting to disect scrutinise and analize every little detail but sometimes you just need to except things like there are individuals amongst us that you cant explain scrutinize or analize the things they do just cannot be explained they can just do it and when all else fails you either choose to believe or dont if you dont thats fine because in the grand scheme of things 99.9percent of people will never go onto achieveing what Joe or others have and can do because they just dont have it.

I think this may be Gazza's best post ever. The mind & ability of some men just doesn't fit the body. Watch 336 pounds of Fury sometime, guys. Or Gazza's big bends. Some guys have a different type of brain. I don't have the drive to go that far, but I love watching the guys that do.

Edited January 19, 2010 by John Beatty

[The Natural]

Watch 336 pounds of Fury sometime, guys. Or Gazza's big bends.

That's giving that DVD far more credit than it deserves. Gazza's bends are a great example but that DVD is a joke.

[rico300zx]

Watch 336 pounds of Fury sometime, guys. Or Gazza's big bends.

That's giving that DVD far more credit than it deserves. Gazza's bends are a great example but that DVD is a joke.

Rex

I have observed that you are a great squatter and also that you frequent powerlifting forums that I have checked out because of videos you have posted. Have you, and the guys on your other forums talked of trying this squat record in leu of this thread. Do the other big squat guys think its a joke as well if so? Also do you think anyone you know could do this that you could set a challenge too? I would like to see what other man could replicate such a feat in squatting. Perhaps if you knew someone kinneys size or bodyweight that would be a close match would be good to see if it was possible.

Rico

[Cannon]

I finally saw the new video tonight and I think too much is being made of it here. It's an interesting 2hrs with some good take-aways. You're still going to have to figure out how to close a #4 for yourself.

[gazza]

Watch 336 pounds of Fury sometime, guys. Or Gazza's big bends.

That's giving that DVD far more credit than it deserves. Gazza's bends are a great example but that DVD is a joke.

I dont think anyone can bend half the stuff Pats bent with his syle and wraps etc and bodyweight thats before taking into account all the stuff he bends etc with big ass stones in his lap etc then theres the horseshoes give a little credit were its deserved Pats one strong individual thats before you take into account his mindset.

I still see Pat as the best reverse bender in the world factoring in his strict style and wraps etc.

Maybe only Chris Ryder will match im in horseshoes but chris is alot bigger.

He did a double 3 close at the aobs dinner years ago.

700lbs deadlifter at well under 200lbs.

REX factor in your own much higher bodyweight then try and replicate half of what the TERMINATOR has achieved.

I no who id rather take after

[The Natural]

I dont think anyone can bend half the stuff Pats bent with his syle and wraps etc and bodyweight thats before taking into account all the stuff he bends etc with big ass stones in his lap etc then theres the horseshoes give a little credit were its deserved Pats one strong individual thats before you take into account his mindset.

Nobody knows how tough the stock is that he bends, because he won't let anyone calibrate it. That's like deadlifting a bunch of plates on a bar, claiming to be the world's best deadlifter, but not letting anyone count the plates. (You'll find that there are lots of things in the grip world that look downright ridiculous when a good analogy from another strength sport is found). Half the DVD is build-up to an event that never happens. Then we've got about 3 minutes spent on the "grip n rip" technique of a phone book, something everyone here can do. Yeah, that DVD is a joke.

Watch 336 pounds of Fury sometime, guys. Or Gazza's big bends.

That's giving that DVD far more credit than it deserves. Gazza's bends are a great example but that DVD is a joke.

Rex

I have observed that you are a great squatter and also that you frequent powerlifting forums that I have checked out because of videos you have posted. Have you, and the guys on your other forums talked of trying this squat record in leu of this thread. Do the other big squat guys think its a joke as well if so? Also do you think anyone you know could do this that you could set a challenge too? I would like to see what other man could replicate such a feat in squatting. Perhaps if you knew someone kinneys size or bodyweight that would be a close match would be good to see if it was possible.

Rico

I'm different than most experienced powerlifters in that I'm giving Kinney's claim some attention. If his squat claim were posted in a powerlifting forum, the thread would be locked within an hour. It really is that absurd. I wouldn't ever ask any good powerlifter to try to beat it, because he wouldn't take me seriously and I'd likely lose some respect from him. It would be like telling Usain Bolt "There's this guy who is really good at grip stuff, and he says in a DVD that he warms up for grip with sprints, and he got to where he is doing the 100 meter in 8 seconds, on an empty stomach, he doesn't have any proof of this, but anyway, will you try to beat him???.."

[The Mac]

It amuses me that there are people using the "Well, Joe has SUPERHUMAN determination" and that "No one really knows whether anyone can do 440 x 60 as it is not something people have often attempted" in a discussion of whether something was actually done. Also there the old "Well, he's a simple chap, he doesn't seem the sort to lie" - what sort of evidence is that, especially when the "feeling" is based largely off a DVD?

[AP]

700lbs deadlifter at well under 200lbs.

Pat deadlifted 700? That's incredible! I didn't know that he trained any of the powerlifts that heavy.

[kogba]

A few months ago, Mighty Joe had a thread discussing the feats old time strongmen could do and arm-wrestlers(or was it... wrist-wrestlers at the time? ) with legendary strength and how they would stand next to the modern ones, based on many eay-witnesses.

Many people felt that from the moment many of that claims could not be proved, we couldn't make a good/credible comparison with the modern arm-wrestlers/strongmen. I'm not saying the old timers weren't exceptional, but when someone claims world record feats, the need of some kind of credible proof is needed, no question about it(that's why federations have rules about it).

My question therefore is, why should Joe Kinney be treated different? He's a legent, alright, but for things/feats there's no proof(and I don't mean only video, but judges' proof even as old as the ancient Olympics, so there's a reasonable credibility), no one should be credited for.

Anyway, I don't want to offend anyone, I only wanted to share my thoughts.

[IROC-Z]

It amuses me that there are people using the "Well, Joe has SUPERHUMAN determination" and that "No one really knows whether anyone can do 440 x 60 as it is not something people have often attempted" in a discussion of whether something was actually done. Also there the old "Well, he's a simple chap, he doesn't seem the sort to lie" - what sort of evidence is that, especially when the "feeling" is based largely off a DVD?

I never said this stuff was evidence. I said it was my interpretation of the video.

Of course I don't think anybody can squat 440 x 60. That's just ridiculous. I think the setup Joe was using made the weight feel quite a bit lighter.

[climber511]

I await the answers from Kinney before making any judgment.

[lukeamdman]

Take a chill pill people. Kinney never claimed any world records.

John asked Kinney about his training from 10 years prior, and Joe answered to the best of his knowledge. That's it, take it with a grain of salt.

[Bearcat 74]

And let us not forget that he squatted all day. I think he talks about his squatting in MILO, he squats when he passes the squat rack. I think it talks about 350xsomething, I don't have the book infront of me. Now let's just say 440x60 and it was mentioned that the weights were probably 50-60% of the actual weight because of the SSB. So let's say 60% of 440 = 264lbsx60 reps over a 10hr day. I am not real strong right now but I could do that as could about 95% of the people on this board, that would be 10 sets of 6 or whatever you wanted. That would be a set of 6 every hour for 10hrs. Does it specifically say in the video that he did them all in a row?

[lukeamdman]

And let us not forget that he squatted all day. I think he talks about his squatting in MILO, he squats when he passes the squat rack. I think it talks about 350xsomething, I don't have the book infront of me. Now let's just say 440x60 and it was mentioned that the weights were probably 50-60% of the actual weight because of the SSB. So let's say 60% of 440 = 264lbsx60 reps over a 10hr day. I am not real strong right now but I could do that as could about 95% of the people on this board, that would be 10 sets of 6 or whatever you wanted. That would be a set of 6 every hour for 10hrs. Does it specifically say in the video that he did them all in a row?

He says "reps" and doesn't specify further. It's an incorrect assumption to think they're all continuous at once because of that lack of clarification.

[Guest Bullitt]

I just watched the video last night. Joe is pretty clear about what he did for squats. He says he worked up to doing one set of 60 reps every morning on an empty stomach. He stated that he worked up to 440 for reps, and he would use 540 for singles.

According to this account, he did claim to do 1 set of 60 rep squats every morning before breakfast on the new video. The concrete "weights" on the bar were not removable as i understand it, and each is claimed to weigh 145lbs. So the minimum he was doing 60 reps with would be the 335#. The handles in the trees that were shown on the video clip were pretty low, so not sure if you are really getting 50% aid from them (but they would definitely help you out of the hole). Given all this, it was probably like squatting 225 for 60 reps every morning on an empty stomach. Certainly more believable than the 440X60, but still at the high end of what would be doable for the better high rep squatters out there (only because he claims to do them every morning on an empty stomach). This would lead most (not all)to an overtrained state. I also think it's possible that the concrete weights were estimated. Looking at the pic in the vid, 145 for each of those seems really high. Perhaps they were just eyeballed and not weighed. So maybe more like 180X60 every day. Still a big feat, but doable for someone with "Joe Kinney grit".

Hopefully Joe responds to Mighty Joe's letter and clears it all up. I think the real fault here lies with the interviewer. JW knows a lot about training. A simple followup question would have cleared all this up. The discussion concerning the squat training and the super gripper were the big selling points behind the newer footage if you watch the trailer. I think Joe probably innocently said I do 60 rep squats with this much weight and the interviewer ran with it in the hope of selling more vids. In the end, letting something like that come out probably does a lot more harm to Joe's reputation and his other gripper strength claims than it does to help.

I think this topic is pretty much beat unless we hear back from Joe K. He did an assisted squat with some weight for 60 reps every morning. What he didn't do, was back squat a calibrated 440 lbs for 60 reps. It doesn't sound like that was what he was originally trying to claim anyway. The video just made it sound that way. Editing can be evil.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Bullitt

[IROC-Z]

I think this topic is pretty much beat unless we hear back from Joe K. He did an assisted squat with some weight for 60 reps every morning. What he didn't do, was back squat a calibrated 440 lbs for 60 reps. It doesn't sound like that was what he was originally trying to claim anyway. The video just made it sound that way. Editing can be evil.

Well said, Mike. I agree completely.