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austinslater

Golfer's Elbow?

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austinslater

I've got a sharp pain on the inside of my elbows from too many pullups. Any advice for correcting this and/or tips on working around it would be greatly appreciated!

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ealonzo

R.I.C.E. it, and when the pain subsides, just do it again. The only thing you can do for tendonitis is rest. Theres no real way around it, you just need to develop your bicep tendons some more.

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austinslater

It flaired up when I started doing a lot of heavy chins and one arm work. The only pulling I'm able to do without aggrivating it is reverse curls, light hammer curls and ring rows. Is it wise to train around it if its not bothering the tendon? I hate the idea of taking even more time off....

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Griparn

I've had the same pain when I tried to train for a one arm lock some months ago. I stopped doing the training with one arm, but still did weighted chins. Now I seem to be back again, the one arm training I guess puts lots of pressure on the tendons. If I were you I would train the exercises where it doesnt bother the tendon, soon it will be better.

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FrankyBoy

Austin, try this site:

Tennis/Golfer Elbow

Select 'English Version' and then Start / Main in the left menu.

Those exercizes did help two friends of mine.

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austinslater

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help!

Franky.....Good website and the stretching does seem to help. Thanks!

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Geralt

I´ve got the same problem, also from doing to many pullups. I never felt pain, till after a training almost a year ago now.

So I gave it a rest, but the pain stays, altough much less than in the beginning. I stopped completely doing pullups. I started with chin-ups, they´re not painfull, the pain comes when I turn my (for example) right hand from thumbs to the inside to thumbs up, only then when I put stress or tension

on the bicep, te pain starts. So with pullups now a slight pain stays, with the hand towards me with chins the pains stays away.

So I can do weighted chin and also heavy barbell curls, they are no problem. I just try to avoid hammercurls which require the same position as pulls. The problem is that it works through with barbell bent over rows, cleans etc. I´d take some rest and try to avoid pullups and start doing chins, they have almost the same result.

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judoboy
R.I.C.E. it, and when the pain subsides, just do it again. The only thing you can do for tendonitis is rest. Theres no real way around it, you just need to develop your bicep tendons some more.

spot on

i had tennis/golfers/judo elbow for months after somebody 'popped' my elbow twice with a armbar. all good now tho :)

best of luck

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Jedd Johnson

Austin,

Hammer rotations.

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Wade Gillingham
Austin,

Hammer rotations.

Funny what works for some and not others. Two of the things mentioned on here just kill my golfers elbow - chins (palms facing head) and pronator work with a strap (assuming Jedd is talking about working the pronator with the hammer). I can do pullups with hammer grip or palms facing away fine and supinator work fine, but pronator kills me and I have lost a lot of strength. R.I.C.E. also is a no go for me - rest didn't help me at all. Mine actually feels better with some light sidepressure after I am good and warmed up. Are you still pulling? If so how bad does it hurt to pull both during and after the workout?

Wade

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climber511

Massage and trigger point therapy has fixed me up a few times now. Never quit moving it but with very light resistance. Stretching, RICE, heat etc could be the thing that works for you - but certainly try the deep tissue massage stuff.

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dansweeney

Chris, I have had a plague in my right elbow for about 3 months now. Did you buy a book that shows self techniques, or do you go to a massage therapist? R.I.C.E and ultrasound/T.E.N.S have been unsuccessful so far, but the stretching from Frankys link seem to give some relief.

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climber511
Chris, I have had a plague in my right elbow for about 3 months now. Did you buy a book that shows self techniques, or do you go to a massage therapist? R.I.C.E and ultrasound/T.E.N.S have been unsuccessful so far, but the stretching from Frankys link seem to give some relief.

Dan - if you have an actual tear or injury, the normal rules are going to apply - you will pretty much be forced to take enough time off to heal up - then therapy yourself back into shape. But normally what seems to happen is that the muscle fibers "turn on" and don't "shut off" - perhaps not the best description but close enough. The object of the massage or trigger point work is to manually relax them. Now this is not going to fix a true injury but many times with the medial or lateral elbow stuff - you aren't actually "hurt" - the muscles simply won't turn off. It's a pretty common thing for rock climbers, golfers, tennis players etc who over work those small muscles. I have walked into the office with my elbow feeling like a pile of BB's and walked out "cured" until I overdid it again. I would go to a professional massage therapist - after you see what they do (and how) - it may be possible for you to do it yourself later on. Continue the stretching if it helps of course - it's also a very good preventative.

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Justin Matney

I've been looking though the archives, and found this thread as well as this one.

Over the last few months I've been dealing with a case of Golfer's Elbow in my right elbow. I can't really speak to the severity as I have no real framework to gauge the pain, but it often prevents me from working out and (IMO) realizing my full potential. I often wake the day after a gripper session and it's like cement has been injected in my arm from my elbow out through my middle and ring fingers. It never prevents me from performing my job, but certain aspects of my job exacerbate the pain. Bending conduit with a hand bender is the absolute worst. I can still do it, but it feels like the tendon is tearing in two (though I know it's not). I haven't armwrestled anyone in a few years, but I imagine that would crank the pain up to about 11, as simply pressing my fingertips against my forehead activates a burning/tearing sensation in the inside of my elbow.

Not exactly sure how long this has been going on, but I can pinpoint when it got bad. I started developing an ache deep in my forearm after grip workouts, which I took to be a positive thing, and I was still making sick gains. One night I was manhandling my #3 with particular ease, and decided to do some extreme grindouts. Yeah, instant regret. Something inside my forearm zigged when it should've zagged, and it immediately felt "not right", and hasn't really felt right since.

I treated the pain in general as inflammation, which may have been appropriate early on, but the more I read, the more I realize that I am most likely incorrect in assuming that the pain at this point has any sort of basis in inflammation at all. I think I probably have tendinosis, not tendinitis. I took particular note of the suffix "-itis" versus "-osis": -itis means inflammation, while -osis means damage at the cellular level. Many bouts of inflammation and small injuries have led to the cellular damage of a tendon in my forearm. This sounds much worse than mere inflammation, and it just got worse after reading these excerpts from tendinosis.org:

Normal tendons and ligaments consist mostly of Type I collagen, with smaller amounts of Type III collagen. When you develop tendinosis, some of your collagen is injured and breaks down. Your body tries to heal the tendon, but when you have chronic tendinosis your body doesn't repair the collagen properly.

The tendinosis cycle begins when breakdown exceeds repair. Repetitive motion causes microinjuries that accumulate with time. Collagen breaks down and the tendon tries to repair itself, but the cells produce new collagen with an abnormal structure and composition. The new collagen has an abnormally high Type III/Type I ratio. Experiments show that the excess Type III collagen at the expense of Type I collagen weakens the tendon, making it prone to further injury. Part of the problem is that the new collagen fibers are less organized into the normal parallel structure, making the tendon less able to withstand tensile stress along the direction of the tendon.
The last part was particularly disturbing to me. Type III collagen is fundamentally less organized than the normal Type I, and it appears to be a vicious cycle.
Over the past few months I've been taking glucosamine sulfate, and just finished a 2 month cycle of cissus quadrangularis. I always hit the area hard with ice immediately after a workout, and apply moist heat several times a week. This is perhaps foolishness and naivete on my part, and I have experienced no additional healing as a result of these supplements or ice/heat. Again, I've been treating it as an inflammatory problem when it may not be inflammatory in nature at all. It appears as though my only shot at repairing the tendon back to pre-injury levels of strength is physical therapy, particularly "loading the tendon parallel to its length", according to tendinosis.org, which I think means eccentrics during supination.
I have some long term goals in grip, and I think it would behoove me to fix this the right way starting now, not just for grip, but for overall, long term health. I know that I also need to get with a doctor at some point, but that sort of this is kind of against my nature.
So I know this thread is old, and there were several contributions, but have any of you dealt with this recently? One thing I didn't find in this thread was overall time of healing. The resources I've been looking at say it takes anywhere from 3 months to a year for a tendon damaged in this fashion (tendinosis) to heal fully and properly. Some say there's a damn good chance it won't ever fully heal.
Does this align with your experiences? What did your program look like during that time? How long did you stay away from grippers, and how gradually did you incorporate them again when the time came?
Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance.

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slazbob

I had mine for a good 6 months. When I gave up the grippers for golf( go figure ) it started going away. But I found some things that have made a difference for me. Using my sidewinder extreme has been huge for me....I believe you sold yours?

And working my triceps with high reps helped a lot. Also working with a leverage bar really worked: I pointed my elbow forward and did 2 sets of 20 twice a week. Just like you would lever a sledge.

Grippers seem to want to make it come back...I've been working 2-3 sets in with some wrist curls, and I felt it a bit last week. I think setting a gripper really aggravates it...so I just use a pinch set to keep the torque off.

It seemed to always be there, very frustrating. You have to really work at, but in the end, I really think that the time away did the trick.

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Jones1874

Massage and trigger point therapy has fixed me up a few times now. Never quit moving it but with very light resistance. Stretching, RICE, heat etc could be the thing that works for you - but certainly try the deep tissue massage stuff.

always overlooked.

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Evan Raftopoulos

hey Justin,

I experience some soreness/tightness/sometimes pain over the medial epicondyle on my L elbow for the past few months (~3 months), but I would say low severity/irritability and does not limit my ability to do grip stuff or interfere with my strength on that side. I do feel it a lot with certain positions like doing grippers with my elbow extended in full supination. I developed this when I started training for arm wrestling with heavy sidepressure on the cable machine. It's been there ever since. I'm of the opinion that once you have an injury things are never exactly the same. The pain can go away (for months/years) but there is always a chance of coming back depending on what you do. One theory is that not only the structures in your body but also your nervous system that controls the previously injured area develops sensitivity (lower threshold) even after things heal. What I tend to recommend to people as a PT is to do some exercises vs nothing. From tissue healing perspective there is some research that supports that avoiding using the injured body part can often be worse than overusing it, but it depends on the condition/person. It's up to you to find that balance and it will take trial and error.

Personally what I tried couple times and felt helpful to me

-the hand yoga with elbow/wrist in different positions, working the extensors which attach on the other side of the elbow

- self massage along the inside of the elbow, also friction massage at the tendon with gua sha tool (temporary relief at least)

- any exercise that works the wrist/finger flexors (that attach at the medial elbow) with very light resistance and a lot of reps (30+)

I haven't been consistent with this because again it doesn't bother me that much.

I'll let you know if I think/try of anything else. There is some research that supports eccentric loading for tendon issues but you already mentioned that.

hope you feel better soon brother.

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Jones1874

Whats always confused me, is when to use heat, and when to use heat?

can anyone clear this up for me please? got a mildly strained wrist but i want it to heal asap.

Thanks in advance.

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Justin Matney

Whats always confused me, is when to use heat, and when to use heat?

can anyone clear this up for me please? got a mildly strained wrist but i want it to heal asap.

Thanks in advance.

Ice up to 24 hrs after injury/workout, heat thereafter.

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Elmo

Ice up to 24 hrs after injury/workout, heat thereafter.

Right, cold to acute damage. But also cold, not heat, to inflammation. And no massage for inflammation. And that's the hard part: how to know something is inflamed or not. Exactly the problem with tendinopathy: tendonitis or tendinosis?

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Jonathan McMillan

My understanding is that ice is better for muscle injury and heat is better for tendons and ligaments because those tissues already have low blood supply compared to muscle tissue. If you don't have neoprene sleeves get some. It takes a long time to warm up those structures so the neoprene helps tremendously.

Jon@han

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Justin Matney

hey Justin,

I experience some soreness/tightness/sometimes pain over the medial epicondyle on my L elbow for the past few months (~3 months), but I would say low severity/irritability and does not limit my ability to do grip stuff or interfere with my strength on that side. I do feel it a lot with certain positions like doing grippers with my elbow extended in full supination. I developed this when I started training for arm wrestling with heavy sidepressure on the cable machine. It's been there ever since. I'm of the opinion that once you have an injury things are never exactly the same. The pain can go away (for months/years) but there is always a chance of coming back depending on what you do. One theory is that not only the structures in your body but also your nervous system that controls the previously injured area develops sensitivity (lower threshold) even after things heal. What I tend to recommend to people as a PT is to do some exercises vs nothing. From tissue healing perspective there is some research that supports that avoiding using the injured body part can often be worse than overusing it, but it depends on the condition/person. It's up to you to find that balance and it will take trial and error.

Personally what I tried couple times and felt helpful to me

-the hand yoga with elbow/wrist in different positions, working the extensors which attach on the other side of the elbow

- self massage along the inside of the elbow, also friction massage at the tendon with gua sha tool (temporary relief at least)

- any exercise that works the wrist/finger flexors (that attach at the medial elbow) with very light resistance and a lot of reps (30+)

I haven't been consistent with this because again it doesn't bother me that much.

I'll let you know if I think/try of anything else. There is some research that supports eccentric loading for tendon issues but you already mentioned that.

hope you feel better soon brother.

Thanks for the reply Evan.

It just occurred to me a few weeks ago that this elbow pain originated in high school. Or at least that's when I first remember dealing with it. I was considerably smaller back then (~190lbs), but I had some good success with lifting, particularly a 500lb deadlift. I'm almost certain this relatively heavy deadlift training coupled with somewhat heavy power cleans is how the elbow pain started to begin with. I never did anything corrective. I told the coach that I had a burning/tearing pain on the inside of my elbow, and he just said suck it up and train through it. So I did.

I'm doing the eccentric loading and self-massage, so we will see where it gets me. No grippers for my right hand til further notice.

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Evan Raftopoulos

sounds like you have a good plan for it. Let us know how it goes.

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EJ Livesey

So I'm getting some nasty tennis elbow pain. I can no longer do curls so I substittuted with drag curls, no pain. Heavy bench 315+ hurts like a bitch and shrugs are all causing me pain. The pain is almost unbearable if I just let go of the bar. So instead I slowly loosen my grip and it's not so bad. If I wrap my forearm tight it's not so bad. Usually takes an entire day to feel better. Has anyone had luck with home rehab? Saw some vids on YT but I don't know where to start. I'm thinking some finger work to start with. Any suggestions?

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bdckr

Have you tried using something for deep tissue massage of the forearms like Armaid? Not cheap, but it is amazing. There have already been a few threads about it.

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