Travis Bagent's Supermatches

[darthsith19]

The Beast has 2 big supermatches coming up at the beginning of August. 1st, on August 1st, he will take on Arsen Liliev in Istanbul at Engin Terzi's event. The match will be the main show of the night. Arsen only weights about 195 lbs. but Engin thinks that it will be a good match-up - so do I. I don't know who will win but I predict that only one man's hand is going to touch the pad... if no matched end on fouls, I think the same guy's gonna win every time. I also wouldn't be surprised if every match is a ref's grip.

For those of you who don't know much about Arsen or think Travis will blow through him, consider these facts: Arsen is the current 187 lbs right arm World Champion (his match with Bagent is right handed, by the way). He is also the overall champion of Russia (he won the overalls and Russian Nationals 1-2 months ago, yes he beat the heavyweight Russian National Champions). The only one in Russia who might beat him is Denis Cyplenkov. After Russian Nationals, they pulled and Denis won, but, they started in the strap and their wrists weren't straight. Some people think that in a real match, Arsen would win.

This is Arsen Liliev at 171 lbs. (current 165 lbs. world champion) beating Ion Oncescu at 209 lbs. (current 220 lbs. world champion) in the Nemiroff Cup Overall:

This is Arsen in 2008 at 198 lbs. pulling and beating 198 lbs. and 220 lbs. world champions all in under 1 second, at a tournament in Istanbul:

This is Brzenk and Liliev screwing around after the 2007 Nemiroff Cup (Arsen 171 lbs, John 209 lbs.):

The very next week (August 8) Travis Bagent is taking on Richard Lupkes at the toproll tournament in Kansas City (I will be there to watch it in person). In 2007, 2 months after Richard returned to the sport, they pulled at the ROTN and each beat each other once. However, Travis clearly pulled out in their second match so it would go to the strap (I honestly cannot believe they didn't call an intentional slip). Anyways, this can be viewed here:

(at 5:35 and 18:23. Also Nick Zinna and Rich at 9:10, Nick being about 80 lbs heavier than he is now but probably no stronger).

"I want the set grip again, and I'll bullshit to get it." "Oh, that's a cheap, that's a cheap win, Richard, I apologize."

Richard Lupkes tore his bicep since then. After coming back, in April, he easily beat Nick Zinna 3-0. At the Unified Nationals 2 weekends ago, he won the supers open, grand masters, and masters, easily. Lindley Keating was an easy win for him, but, Don Underwood seemed to give him trouble up top. In fact it looked like he almost peeled Rich's hand back but then they slipped, with their arms straight up in the air, after about 2 seconds. In the straps, they were in the center for 1-2 seconds and then Rich hit to the side and won pretty quickly. Don's a very good armwrestler, in March he gave Nick Zinna a war, and at the Arnold's he gave Michael Todd 2 hard matches and flashed Tim Bresnan. That being said, I won't be surprised if Travis takes Richard's hand. If Rich can keep his hand I give it to him. Overall I'll say 3-2 for Richard, as long as Travis isn't allowed to intentionally slip like he did at the ROTN, and the match is fair, and Rich doesn't get frustrated. If Travis is able to get an advantage on the set-up, I think he'll win... I'm really not sure about either match. Currently, Travis is ranked 4th in the world right handed, Richard 7th and Arsen 8th.

[mithras]

Are they calling those "pins" because the pads are so big? (triangle shaped)

Edited July 10, 2009 by mithras

[darthsith19]

For the ROTN yes, if your forearm touches the pad anywhere it's a pin.

[raikkonen]

it did puzzle me from the angle you see on the ROTN i was surprised that travis was given a pin over rich cheers for clearing that up. for me what was very weird was how ron bath managed to take down richard with just brute force, traivs easily took ron bath down so quickly but lost a match with rich when rich stopped his hit. i have no idea what the score will be for this match, we will see. i expect travis to be on top form when it comes to trashtalking. cant wait.

as for him vs liliev, he will win 4-1.

but travis wont be fresh as hes pulling them 2 with just a week apart?

[darthsith19]

but travis wont be fresh as hes pulling them 2 with just a week apart?

That's what I thought... I heard Rich did not go to Istanbul to take John's place against Devon Larratt, because he had his match with Travis the very next week... then, since nobody wanted to go against Devon, Engin asked if anybody wanted to go against Arsen Liliev. Chris Chandler said that he did, but Engin turned him down... then Travis stepped up. A couple days later, I thought, why would Travis take the match if Richard couldn't? I agree that the Travis>Ron>Rich>Travis(one time) thing is odd but it really shows that styles make matches... and Travis did flash Rich the second time... Ron seemed to have to strong of a hand/wrist and too good rotational strength for Richard, but he was too slow for Travis. By the way, I know styles make match-ups, but I voted for Travis over Arsen 4-1, because if Travis can flash Ron Bath I think he'll be too much for Arsen. But we'll see. I won't be surprised no matter who wins.

[jad]

I got Travis 4-1 over Arsen; I figure he'll foul out on one of them. Arsen looks HUGE at 198! but Travis is too big and too fast.

[bobbrown]

Travis back out of the Rich match. Rich is probably pulling Ron Bath now.

I will not be surprised at all if Arsen will beat Travis

[darthsith19]

Travis back out of the Rich match. Rich is probably pulling Ron Bath now.

Really? Why did he back out??? I'd actually say Ron's chances with Rich are better (given the ROTN results from 2007) but I was looking forward to Travis and Rich pulling. This will be a good match too... could come down to endurance but if Rich can keep his hand I think he's got it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ron slowly bends Rich's wrist back again and then goes for a pin... just hope that nobody gets hurt.

[fightertrainer]

I got Travis 4-1 over Arsen; I figure he'll foul out on one of them. Arsen looks HUGE at 198! but Travis is too big and too fast.

Is Travis bigger than the biggest Russian AWer at Russian open where Arsen 'd won the open? How can any one ignore the winner of open class in Russina is be beyond my understanding. I have yet to see any one takes Arsen wrist in a tournament. My pick is on Arsen!

[jad]

I got Travis 4-1 over Arsen; I figure he'll foul out on one of them. Arsen looks HUGE at 198! but Travis is too big and too fast.

Is Travis bigger than the biggest Russian AWer at Russian open where Arsen 'd won the open? How can any one ignore the winner of open class in Russina is be beyond my understanding. I have yet to see any one takes Arsen wrist in a tournament. My pick is on Arsen!

No, he's just better. And before we go patting Arsen on the back too much for the weight difference, let's remember that Travis is a lefty. Arsen, his invincible wrist and his 130# db curling arm, are all going down 4-1 when he meets The Beast in Instanbul!

Edited July 12, 2009 by jad

[darthsith19]

Even if Travis is a lefty, Arsen is still undoubtedly the better armwrestler pound for pound... and yeah Arsen won the overall at Russian Nationals, but if Travis had been there and had been allowed to compete, I'm sure he could have beaten everybody too (except maybe Arsen obviously as we don't know for sure who'd win between them) so. Maybe nobody has taken Arsen's wrist in a tournament, but, who's the best armwrestler he's ever faced in competition? Ion Oncescu? Ion's a great armwrestler, but I think Travis would flash Ion, too, so it's hard to say that Arsen will win by that fact. I'm not saying Travis will win I'm just pointing that out.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Josh H

[jad]

Even if Travis is a lefty, Arsen is still undoubtedly the better armwrestler pound for pound... and yeah Arsen won the overall at Russian Nationals, but if Travis had been there and had been allowed to compete, I'm sure he could have beaten everybody too (except maybe Arsen obviously as we don't know for sure who'd win between them) so. Maybe nobody has taken Arsen's wrist in a tournament, but, who's the best armwrestler he's ever faced in competition? Ion Oncescu? Ion's a great armwrestler, but I think Travis would flash Ion, too, so it's hard to say that Arsen will win by that fact. I'm not saying Travis will win I'm just pointing that out.

I've yet to see the HW that people think is the best P4P

[raikkonen]

arsen being better pound for pound doesnt mean hes better stronger faster than travis. travis will destroy this kid physically and mentally.

[bobbrown]

Even if Travis is a lefty, Arsen is still undoubtedly the better armwrestler pound for pound... and yeah Arsen won the overall at Russian Nationals, but if Travis had been there and had been allowed to compete, I'm sure he could have beaten everybody too (except maybe Arsen obviously as we don't know for sure who'd win between them) so. Maybe nobody has taken Arsen's wrist in a tournament, but, who's the best armwrestler he's ever faced in competition? Ion Oncescu? Ion's a great armwrestler, but I think Travis would flash Ion, too, so it's hard to say that Arsen will win by that fact. I'm not saying Travis will win I'm just pointing that out.

I've yet to see the HW that people think is the best P4P

I have yet to see the biggest man actually be the strongest in any sport.

[jad]

Even if Travis is a lefty, Arsen is still undoubtedly the better armwrestler pound for pound... and yeah Arsen won the overall at Russian Nationals, but if Travis had been there and had been allowed to compete, I'm sure he could have beaten everybody too (except maybe Arsen obviously as we don't know for sure who'd win between them) so. Maybe nobody has taken Arsen's wrist in a tournament, but, who's the best armwrestler he's ever faced in competition? Ion Oncescu? Ion's a great armwrestler, but I think Travis would flash Ion, too, so it's hard to say that Arsen will win by that fact. I'm not saying Travis will win I'm just pointing that out.

I've yet to see the HW that people think is the best P4P

I have yet to see the biggest man actually be the strongest in any sport.

There are exceptions in everything, arm wrestling included, but we do have weight classes for a reason, right...

[darthsith19]

arsen being better pound for pound doesnt mean hes better stronger faster than travis. travis will destroy this kid physically and mentally.

I know who is pound for pound better doesn't matter, I was just saying that because jad said remember Travis is a lefty (which also doesn't matter in this fight).

[jad]

arsen being better pound for pound doesnt mean hes better stronger faster than travis. travis will destroy this kid physically and mentally.

I know who is pound for pound better doesn't matter, I was just saying that because jad said remember Travis is a lefty (which also doesn't matter in this fight).

Of course it matters! If it doesn't, have them pull lefty.

[darthsith19]

jad, the fact that Travis is a lefty doesn't mean anything in THIS match-up which is a RIGHT HAND match! Notice I said it doesn't matter in this fight. I could say, of course Arsen being better pound for pound matters, make them pull with a 187 lbs. weight limit! But that doesn't matter either since this is a RIGHT HAND match with NO weight limit.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Josh H

[jad]

jad, the fact that Travis is a lefty doesn't mean anything in THIS match-up which is a RIGHT HAND match! Notice I said it doesn't matter in this fight. I could say, of course Arsen being better pound for pound matters, make them pull with a 187 lbs. weight limit! But that doesn't matter either since this is a RIGHT HAND match with NO weight limit.

Yes, I well aware of what Travis's dominant hand is. Since we're talking abou THIS match with NO weight limit, then their should be NO excuses about Arsen weighing less than Travis AND if Arsen wins, then there should be NO extra pats on the back because he's lighter...at least according to your logic.

[bobbrown]

The reason there are weight classes is so big guys don't have to cry when they lose to a little guy.

IMO there are way to many weight classes. Weight does make a difference BUT not as much a people think. If it did then the winner of any class at the worlds could not even get top 5 in the class above but we all know thats not the case.

And when Arsen Beats Travis I'll give him two extra pats on the back.

[jad]

The reason there are weight classes is so big guys don't have to cry when they lose to a little guy.

IMO there are way to many weight classes. Weight does make a difference BUT not as much a people think. If it did then the winner of any class at the worlds could not even get top 5 in the class above but we all know thats not the case.

And when Arsen Beats Travis I'll give him two extra pats on the back.

Dirty communist

[monkeypaws]

I love how people label Travis as a "LEFTY".....this cracks me up.

At one point he was the best righty..........he busted everyones a$$...and could still beat anyone righty when he is on point.

I believe under different circumstances he mowed over Devon in the first couple of starts....if that match happened again with different refs it could easily go the other way.I am sure even Devon would admit what he felt across the table.

He is known as a "leftie" because he is so far ahead of everyone on the left hand, but this does not take away from the fact that he has beaten everyone righty.

Arsen beat those guys easy, but do you think Travis would have done any less than flash all those guys too.

He has flashed bigger stronger guys than that..........including brzenk,bath,barbosa,voevoda,devon...the list is long and alot more distinguished than Arsens.

I guess it depends on which Travis shows and how hungry he is, but he definately has all the tools to make it easy.

I agree with Bob...too many weight classes..............I don't mind being the light guy in a class...............big isn't strong, strong is strong

[darthsith19]

Rob, when did Bagent flash Voevoda and John Brzenk right handed?

[G-Man]

Rob, when did Bagent flash Voevoda and John Brzenk right handed?

I think I can answer that question:

Travis "flashed" Voevoda at 2003 Worlds:

I believe Travis "flashed" Brzenk at a tornament in West Virginia the following year (I had heard John complain he was not ready).

Overall, I think his record is 1-1 against Voevoda and maybe like 2-9 against Brzenk

[darthsith19]

Okay, that wasn't a flash he did to Voevoda but it was close enough I guess.