Grip Strengthening For Sport Fencing?

[thlurlet]

Hi,

I'd like to work on my grip/hand/finger strength for sabre fencing (the sport), but need some advice. I should explain what my problem is. In sabre fencing, the weapon weights only 500 grams and the rubber grip is held with the tips of the fingers, not in the palm. Every attack or parry involves rolling the grip between the fingers or flicking it forward with the fingers and wrist (see pictures here), and it has to be held firmly enough that an opponents blade will be stopped when coming into contact with your own. Matches last from 2 to 4 minutes. Over the course of a match, sometimes my grip gets weak and I can no longer hold onto the sabre tightly enough or rotate/flick it between my fingers quickly enough to stay in proper form.

My question is, what kind of grip strength needs to be improved here? Since the grip is being held by the fingertips, not in the palm like a hammer, I think I should be doing the pinch grip exercises. However, since my problem is more a lack of muscular endurance rather than maximal strength, I'm unsure if these would help. Any advice from the more experienced grip athletes?

Thanks,

Max

[Magnus]

Yeah, you should definitely do more pinch, but if your problem is endurance, go for timed holds, swings, plate hulas, etc.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Magnus

[climber511]

It sounds very specific - I'd do a fairly general but complete forearm and hand strength workout I guess but my opinion is that more fencing will turn out to be the best solution in the long run.

[tchcalvin]

I agree. More fencing will be the best way to train the sports specific movement. (i.e. to get better with grippers train on grippers). Can you train with a heavier sabre? That way in a match the lighter wepon will be easier to handle? it may mess up technique but just a thought.

[thlurlet]

I agree. More fencing will be the best way to train the sports specific movement. (i.e. to get better with grippers train on grippers). Can you train with a heavier sabre? That way in a match the lighter wepon will be easier to handle? it may mess up technique but just a thought.

I don't have any heavier weapons. I could wrap something around the blade to make it heavier, but I think it's the force applied by the thumb to stabilize the blade against a hit (against an opponent or their blade) that tires me out, because the pain is in the muscle that you use to push the thumb towards the palm. Maybe if I used my other hand to tug on the blade to simulate repeated hits, until my hand gets tired?

I'd do a fairly general but complete forearm and hand strength workout I guess but my opinion is that more fencing will turn out to be the best solution in the long run.

So would a general hand strength workout (i.e. grippers, pinching, support strength) improve sports performance (I do tennis and fencing) even if it doesn't fix this specific problem?

Thanks

[climber511]

I agree. More fencing will be the best way to train the sports specific movement. (i.e. to get better with grippers train on grippers). Can you train with a heavier sabre? That way in a match the lighter wepon will be easier to handle? it may mess up technique but just a thought.

I don't have any heavier weapons. I could wrap something around the blade to make it heavier, but I think it's the force applied by the thumb to stabilize the blade against a hit (against an opponent or their blade) that tires me out, because the pain is in the muscle that you use to push the thumb towards the palm. Maybe if I used my other hand to tug on the blade to simulate repeated hits, until my hand gets tired?

I'd do a fairly general but complete forearm and hand strength workout I guess but my opinion is that more fencing will turn out to be the best solution in the long run.

So would a general hand strength workout (i.e. grippers, pinching, support strength) improve sports performance (I do tennis and fencing) even if it doesn't fix this specific problem?

Thanks

You build strength in the weight room and skill etc by doing the actual event. Training to build a stronger grip will help any sport where grip strength is important only if you have the specific skills to apply it.

[Teemu I]

I would build up overall grip as well at first. Try David Horne's program for beginners. Maximal strength will make the endurance type sporting activity easier as well.

More specific tip:

You could also get yourself a pony clamp and rubberbands to increase the resistance gradually and train your thumb(s) performing a basic program like 5 x 5 reps 3 days a week for dynamic thumb.

[JAU1985]

Would sledgehammer finger walking help with this guys? I know my thumb pad gets one hell of a burn and workout from them.

[Rick Browne]

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/G...ps/GripTip.html

Sounds like you are asking for strength endurance. Try this Brookfield movement.

[thlurlet]

I tried the Brookfield "tennis ball" movement; the effort feels more in my forearm than just my thumb. I might do it when I have time, but still do the fencing moves with my other hand providing resistance to work on my thumb endurance. I tried the pony clamps with a rubber band too.

Regarding David Horne's beginner program, I think I'll start doing this as my overall grip strength program. I already do the wrist extensions (45lbs) and curls (85lbs), but he says not to roll the barbell out to your fingertips on the wrist curls as I do. Why is this?

Today I tried holds (Olympic barbell + 90lbs) and plate pinches (2x10lbs for 60 seconds) today. I chalked my hands each set but the holds still gave me small scratches when the bar started to slip. Will using my bare hands lead to faster gains or would using weightlifting gloves be just as good?

Another question: for the one-handed exercises (i.e. one-handed plate pinch), can you do both hands at once to save time?

Edited June 2, 2009 by thlurlet

[iMagnusX]

Just do repeated chest and/or belly cuts until you slow way down and feel a burning sensation in your forearms. Probably not the best way to practice the technique, but it conditions pretty well. When warming up or practicing cuts, make sure to finger squeeze fast and not to use the wrist.

After fencing for a while, I rarely get grip fatigue. When I just stared out, for sure. Just do the sport and have fun!

Out of the recommended drills, Brookfield's "Three the Hard Way" seems the most applicable to me for lots of parries. A gripper and training the pinch grip might work for the cutting action. If you are training grip in general, then it doesn't really matter, just pick a sensible one like above.

Horne's program uses the barbell finger curl as "gripper," as it doesn't require the necessary techniques. Don't let the barbell roll out on the wrist curls because you are training the forearms rather than crushing grip, and you already are doing finger curls for that purpose.

Work gloves are recommended for pinching because it's easy to tear the skin with the pinch grip. This isn't really the case with a barbell. You're hands will toughen up for that one. For grip strength it doesn't matter so much and gloves will only make it harder, but for any other other exercise (deadlift, press, bench, pullups, etc.) please don't use gloves. Ask Mark Rippetoe why.

[thlurlet]

Just do repeated chest and/or belly cuts until you slow way down and feel a burning sensation in your forearms. Probably not the best way to practice the technique, but it conditions pretty well. When warming up or practicing cuts, make sure to finger squeeze fast and not to use the wrist.

After fencing for a while, I rarely get grip fatigue. When I just stared out, for sure. Just do the sport and have fun!

Ya, repeated chest cuts is where it burns the most. I was thinking it was some weakness on my part that needed improvement.

Out of the recommended drills, Brookfield's "Three the Hard Way" seems the most applicable to me for lots of parries. A gripper and training the pinch grip might work for the cutting action. If you are training grip in general, then it doesn't really matter, just pick a sensible one like above.

OK.

Horne's program uses the barbell finger curl as "gripper," as it doesn't require the necessary techniques. Don't let the barbell roll out on the wrist curls because you are training the forearms rather than crushing grip, and you already are doing finger curls for that purpose.

Work gloves are recommended for pinching because it's easy to tear the skin with the pinch grip. This isn't really the case with a barbell. You're hands will toughen up for that one. For grip strength it doesn't matter so much and gloves will only make it harder, but for any other other exercise (deadlift, press, bench, pullups, etc.) please don't use gloves. Ask Mark Rippetoe why.

Rippetoe's answer seems to be that it makes you a "pussy." Other sites suggest that for most sports, you don't need to be lifting so close to your max that gloves would be required, and that using gloves on submaximal weights encourages bad form. I've been wearing gloves for years - guess I'll just get used to the hand callouses.

Thanks for answering my questions. I'm surprised to find another sabreur on a board like this.