Real Strength?

[arande2]

Hello

This question is concerning how grippers strengthen the grip. (having trouble finding stuff searching, if anything)

So right now I'm at ~5 reps #2 and 1/4" #2.5 (somewhere in between CCS and MMS, closer to MMS)

The thing is, my grip feels pretty weak like if, say... I'm playing around with a friend and can't hold on to his wrist. Or.. I'm also pretty weak in a handshake (against many people).

The question:

Why do I feel weak even though my gripper level is OK? Does it have to do with the strength in the outer sweep range?

Am I just that weak? I get the whole leverage thing, but still..

[chop163]

Do you do any other training besides grippers?

[tja]

Not being able to hold on to a wrist sounds more like open hand strengt missing. Thick bar and block weight work should help more than grippers there.

[lloyd80s]

If you want strong hands the get yourself some block weights and PINCH PINCH PINCH. Try and give pinch as much time as you do grippers and your hands will be so much stronger in three months. Trust me.

[Mikael Siversson]

Thick bar training is imo the single most overrated grip exercise. Close to useless. I know of way too many bodybuilders that have picked up the Inch like a little toy. None of them had ever touched a thickbar before. Thickbar lift is a good test of strength but not very good for actually getting strong. Many would probably be surprised if they did a year of only thickbar lifting follwed by a year of pinch and wrist curls in various forms and then maxed out in thickbar at the end of each cycle.

[arande2]

Do you do any other training besides grippers?

Sledge, Plate Wrist Curls, Hex weights and plate pinches

Guess I should've mentioned that - I'm doing okay with most things

Not being able to hold on to a wrist sounds more like open hand strengt missing. Thick bar and block weight work should help more than grippers there.

Can't do thick bar, but I do block (hex for me) weights.

If you want strong hands the get yourself some block weights and PINCH PINCH PINCH. Try and give pinch as much time as you do grippers and your hands will be so much stronger in three months. Trust me.

Same as above, but if I have to pay more than say $30 (HS without a job doesn't work too well ) well that's not workin. Normally I just lift the existing dumbbells in the gym by their sides. Been at it for months too

[JAU1985]

I'm no expert but I felt this kind of problem when grappling with my friends, maybe work on negatives and do forearm curls thick a thick handled DB? I know something that simple worked for me in improving my over all grip. If all else fails, try John Brookfield's battling ropes.

[chop163]

The thing is, my grip feels pretty weak like if, say... I'm playing around with a friend and can't hold on to his wrist. Or.. I'm also pretty weak in a handshake (against many people).

Holding on to someones wrists is largely a technique issue, ie. my Catch Wrestling coach (Piotr) can control my wrists a lot better then my friend Dan, who is Western Australia's strongest man, even though Dan's hands are much stronger than Piotr's (my hands being the strongest of the three).

Handshakes have a little to do with technique and (as mentioned many places on the board) a lot to do with hand size.

Edited April 23, 2009 by chop163

[Pancake Sprawl]

what exactly does gripper work help with anyway?

[Teemu I]

what exactly does gripper work help with anyway?

Grippers are best for becoming stronger with grippers. Might sound stupid but this is true as you might develop much stronger grip overall (including crush) with other equipment, but the thing you can't achieve with anything other than grippers is that ability to put the finishing touch on gripper closes. The last fraction of the close is a highly specific strength that you can't develop to it's max without specific training on grippers.

Other than that, despite the specificity principle finger strength is finger strength and obviously if you progress to harder grippers you will perform atleast somewhat better in any test of hand strength, assuming that your possible weak links such as thumb and wrist strength don't hold you back. I would say that grippers are not as bad as some say, but like any piece of equipment they have their limitations.

[jad]

How big are your hands? Without big hands, you're going to have a hard time "shaking hard" unless the guy you're trying to put the squeeze on has teensy hands. Same thing with grabbing the wrist. Thickbar and blockweights will help some but...

[arande2]

I'm no expert but I felt this kind of problem when grappling with my friends, maybe work on negatives and do forearm curls thick a thick handled DB? I know something that simple worked for me in improving my over all grip. If all else fails, try John Brookfield's battling ropes.

Will have to look into it

The thing is, my grip feels pretty weak like if, say... I'm playing around with a friend and can't hold on to his wrist. Or.. I'm also pretty weak in a handshake (against many people).

Holding on to someones wrists is largely a technique issue, ie. my Catch Wrestling coach (Piotr) can control my wrists a lot better then my friend Dan, who is Western Australia's strongest man, even though Dan's hands are much stronger than Piotr's (my hands being the strongest of the three).

Handshakes have a little to do with technique and (as mentioned many places on the board) a lot to do with hand size.

Interesting, I've seen that, just seems weird with the wrist

How big are your hands? Without big hands, you're going to have a hard time "shaking hard" unless the guy you're trying to put the squeeze on has teensy hands. Same thing with grabbing the wrist. Thickbar and blockweights will help some but...

7 3/4" (I think they'll get a bit bigger when I'm older), and I don't know how to measure the pinch width. I don't try to squeeze unless they ask me to, but instead try to keep a rigid hand, and even then it doesn't work out too well.

I guess I could practice holding on to similar objects.. but there are limits yes

[Grippster]

I experienced the same thing, because my hands are kind of small. However, there comes a point when it doesn't matter how small your hands are. Once you work up to 10 reps or so with the #2.5 your grip should be pretty damn strong. I found once I worked up to this level my hands were pretty much like vices. There wasn't anything I couldn't hold onto, and I had a lot of crushing power. And that's only a 2.5 level, imagine 3 or 4!

[Wes]

Grippers don't do a lot for noticeable every day useful hand strength in my experience... I found the Rolling Thunder and Ivanko SG to be vastly superior in that respect. I've pretty much quit grippers and focused on higher rep full range on the ISG as well as RT and my grip feels ten times stronger than it used to compared with when I was focusing on grippers.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Wes

[lloyd80s]

Grippers don't do a lot for noticeable every day useful hand strength in my experience... I found the Rolling Thunder and Ivanko SG to be vastly superior in that respect. I've pretty much quit grippers and focused on higher rep full range on the ISG as well as RT and my grip feels ten times stronger than it used to compared with when I was focusing on grippers.

Wes what you've said is interesting. You say that you now use ISG over grippers and you feel stronger with it. What I want to know is how it's different to a gripper? Is the ROM greater on the ISG or are you using it in a special way? I'm only asking this as I've never tried one as I've always thought they were the same as a gripper. I know Tommy Heslep started out with an ISG and look where it got him! I may have to invest in one........

[stagger]

If it's true that grippers really don't translate well to anything other than closing grippers, then I might just drop them. I care about hand strength, not about being able to squeeze the last 3/8" of a gripper closed. Would pinching be a better way of developing strong hands, with no regard for wether you're able to close grippers?

Edited April 24, 2009 by stagger

[Teemu I]

If it's true that grippers really don't translate well to anything other than closing grippers, then I might just drop them. I care about hand strength, not about being able to squeeze the last 3/8" of a gripper closed. Would pinching be a better way of developing strong hands, with no regard for wether you're able to close grippers?

Crush is one aspect of grip among others and grippers are an ok way to increase crushing strength. It's just that you need to train all aspects of grip. I don't know what people expect from gripper training. It should be obvious that to build strong grip overall you need to train all aspects of grip. If you were to drop the grippers from your routine, I would still recommend that you train your crush as well, with a plate-loaded grip machine. It is more effective in building strength throughout the whole ROM obviously, the load beeing constant in every joint angle. Grippers should be seen as elastic bands and grip machine as free weights, if we compared other strength training to grip training. If I could make it or afford it at the moment, I would get myself a plate-loaded grip machine and switch the focus of my crush-specific workouts to grip machine and use gripper closes as an accessory exercise.

[stagger]

If it's true that grippers really don't translate well to anything other than closing grippers, then I might just drop them. I care about hand strength, not about being able to squeeze the last 3/8" of a gripper closed. Would pinching be a better way of developing strong hands, with no regard for wether you're able to close grippers?

Crush is one aspect of grip among others and grippers are an ok way to increase crushing strength. It's just that you need to train all aspects of grip. I don't know what people expect from gripper training. It should be obvious that to build strong grip overall you need to train all aspects of grip. If you were to drop the grippers from your routine, I would still recommend that you train your crush as well, with a plate-loaded grip machine. It is more effective in building strength throughout the whole ROM obviously, the load beeing constant in every joint angle. Grippers should be seen as elastic bands and grip machine as free weights, if we compared other strength training to grip training. If I could make it or afford it at the moment, I would get myself a plate-loaded grip machine and switch the focus of my crush-specific workouts to grip machine and use gripper closes as an accessory exercise.

Do you think the Ivanko Super Gripper is a good compromise between the convenience of grippers and the effectiveness of a grip machine? Or is it basically just the same thing as a regular gripper?

[Teemu I]

If it's true that grippers really don't translate well to anything other than closing grippers, then I might just drop them. I care about hand strength, not about being able to squeeze the last 3/8" of a gripper closed. Would pinching be a better way of developing strong hands, with no regard for wether you're able to close grippers?

Crush is one aspect of grip among others and grippers are an ok way to increase crushing strength. It's just that you need to train all aspects of grip. I don't know what people expect from gripper training. It should be obvious that to build strong grip overall you need to train all aspects of grip. If you were to drop the grippers from your routine, I would still recommend that you train your crush as well, with a plate-loaded grip machine. It is more effective in building strength throughout the whole ROM obviously, the load beeing constant in every joint angle. Grippers should be seen as elastic bands and grip machine as free weights, if we compared other strength training to grip training. If I could make it or afford it at the moment, I would get myself a plate-loaded grip machine and switch the focus of my crush-specific workouts to grip machine and use gripper closes as an accessory exercise.

Do you think the Ivanko Super Gripper is a good compromise between the convenience of grippers and the effectiveness of a grip machine? Or is it basically just the same thing as a regular gripper?

As it's spring loaded it's basically the same, but the benefits of the ISG are that you can change the resistance of ISG and that it is easier to do negatives with plus the movement is linear which makes it easier to use without worrying about the technique too much. These are objective facts. So, ISG is a kind of good compromise but not as effective as a plate-loaded grip machine.

[gazza]

If you want hand strength and tough hands BEND and use a secret weapon.

[arande2]

Based on what I see in this thread I'll likely be making some changes in the way I train soon.

But due to lack of money, it'll likely be more negatives and more pinch than before..

[svr]

Initially, combat (martial arts) is what got me interested in grip training.

The ability to hang on to your weapon or to bash an attackers head in while holding them with the other hand is highly desirable.

Using your example of grabbing a wrist or hand, the weak link is usually thumb strength.

To quickly break someones grasp, you typically move against their thumb, not their fingers.

Although I enjoy working with the grippers and believe that they add to grasping ability, they do not recreate the grasping / clutching movement very well.

Recreate the wrist grabbing movement as best as possible with equipment.

You need a partial range of motion for the grasp working between 6" - 9" + circumference.

Bag catching, loose sandbag lifting concentrating on the grip, v-bar or loading pin with a piece of loose pool noodle or foam all work well.

Squeezing baby kitten heads also works well and can you can often obtain them free. j/k

[Grippster]

I think maybe using thick handled grippers might improve functional strength. They are more difficult because of the way they are held, although not necessarily much tougher than a gripper with a normal sized handle. I believe the HG400s are all sold out (long ago actually) and I'm not sure where you can get one now but the bone crushers are basically the same and have the same thick handles. On the plus side they're pretty cheap to buy although you better be ready for some serious seasoning.

[Magnus]

I think maybe using thick handled grippers might improve functional strength. They are more difficult because of the way they are held, although not necessarily much tougher than a gripper with a normal sized handle. I believe the HG400s are all sold out (long ago actually) and I'm not sure where you can get one now but the bone crushers are basically the same and have the same thick handles. On the plus side they're pretty cheap to buy although you better be ready for some serious seasoning.

John will be offering grippers w/ optional 1" handles pretty soon, too.