#4 Close

[jad]

jad: thanks for your input bud. However, my other question remains: how strong is "strong enough" to develop a monster grip? I ask because of this, for example: Wade Gillingham recently stated that he has done 600x1 in the DeadLift, using DO no-hook grip. But he said he wouldn't be surprised if his brothers could do more because this is "supporting grip" and "it favours the stronger man". But isn't Wade already hellishly strong? I mean, he deadlifts over 600 for sure... isn't that enough body strength? Or is he at a disadvantage against, for example, one of his brothers who can DL 200 more pounds? I would've personally thought that at that point, it didn't matter.

I think it depends on the event/lift, assuming your excluding the indirect gripwork one gets from working up to a 600# or 800# dl. To clarify: someone that can hold on to 600# DO is going to do well at support events, the overall strength is just secondary. How many grip guys that don't DL or aren't big DL's, put 500 or 600# in a rack and do lockouts just to get the benefit of trying to support grip that much? They never get the benefit of that kind of grip training if they're a 350# DL and then get told they need to bring their overall strength up. I think a 400# DL is plenty overall strong for 2HP and vbar. For axle, for someone with a sub-8" hand 450-500# DL is going to take you a long ways. The bigger your hand gets, the less of a grip event it becomes and the more your backstrength needs to go up. You obviously don't need it for grippers but guys that are great DL's have already built a huge base of support grip strength and then they learn some technique and become good at grippers quick. Next we hear about the how these "untrained' individuals are progressing so fast, which isn't really the case.

Edited March 23, 2009 by jad

[acorn]

I have to wonder.... Aaron says that about 10 years ago or so, he was Clean+Jerking over 400 pounds and deadlifting over 800. I know some have a hard time believing it but I do. People always say that overall body strength helps grip tremendously. If he would've focused on grip the way he's been doing in the past, I don't know, 2-3 years (??), back then when his overall body strength was so incredible... would it be fair to assume he would've gotten even stronger? I'm curious.

Or is there a point where overall strength doesn't help much. Like, if you can DL 500 then you're strong enough to get worldclass good at any grip event. Or a guy who DL's 750 has a greater potential just because of that?

As Eaton and I joke, "Aaron's a thoroughbred!". I think his explosiveness plays a bigger role than his overall bodystrength. I've watched Aaron compete in person twice and a ton of his videos and IMO the thing that is most impressive is how explosive he is. It's like he can just fire all his fibers at any given time. I remember watching him do 1HDL at MGC and it looked more like he was trying to explosively row it vs dl. Same thing on the grippers, who else can MMS close their choker max (at parallel)? It's obvious that he was an Elite athlete at one time and IMO that stupid amount of fast twitch fibers he has plays a bigger role than some of his gym numbers.

Thanks Josh, you guys crack me up with that. I've known some really gifted mutants that were throwers over the years. Quite a few that you would be astonished the amount of speed and power they had. my explosiveness was one of the major things that allowed me to even compete with those guys. Even at 6' I was usually the smallest by 6" or more. I wish I had been hooked on the grip bug when I was still at or near peak strength. As it is now with the back injury, and 10 years away from any training I lost a lot of strength. Even now after being back at training for nearly 3 years, I'm still not as strong as I was as a 16yr old in HS. Granted my goals have changed alot too and I no longer chase max attempts on power lifts or Olympic lifts. But still overall I feel like I have a pre-pubescent girls strength levels compared to my peak overall body strength.

Does more overall body strength help get to elite grip levels faster. I would say yes probably. but still in the long run there is no substitute for drive, motivation, and training smart. There are several examples of this on this board. guys who are not big, not particularly strong overall and still amaze me. Derek and Bob Odin being just a couple of them.

- Aaron

[Wade Gillingham]

jad: thanks for your input bud. However, my other question remains: how strong is "strong enough" to develop a monster grip? I ask because of this, for example: Wade Gillingham recently stated that he has done 600x1 in the DeadLift, using DO no-hook grip. But he said he wouldn't be surprised if his brothers could do more because this is "supporting grip" and "it favours the stronger man". But isn't Wade already hellishly strong? I mean, he deadlifts over 600 for sure... isn't that enough body strength? Or is he at a disadvantage against, for example, one of his brothers who can DL 200 more pounds? I would've personally thought that at that point, it didn't matter.

My opinion on this is the stronger a person is the better that person's supporting grip is. My brothers and I all have about the same size hands. They are both stronger than me deadlifting from the floor so I am guessing that they could both do 600 and probably more in a double overhand no hook dead. I am stronger now than I was when I did 600 so I bet I can do more now too - using the same bar under the same conditions. My 570x5 with no regrip is a much more impressive lift actually and I did this a year or so after the 600x1.

Supporting grip involves lifting heavy objects. The easier it is for your body to handle the weight of the object - without consideration for the grip component - the less taxing lifting the object will be on your grip. Anybody that was around the GNC booth when Rich and Brian Shaw stepped up will know what I mean. They are both very strong so lifting 207 is effortless on the non-grip related part of the movement, hence the gripping part is easier too. I guess the bottom line is you don't have to be an 800 pound deadlifter to have a good supporting grip but to a man, the stronger he gets the better his supporting grip will be. Here's a good test to try for all you inch lifters - try to do a double inch deadlift. Even if you are strong right and left with the inch, doing two at a time is considerably harder because now you are lifting 340lbs instead of 172lbs. One of the more impressive things I have seen on video is Laine's 7 reps with the millenium with his left hand, yet he struggled to get two at one time for one rep. Lifting 230lbs from your shoelaces is much easier than lifting 460lbs, and I suspect as Laine's overall strength goes up he will find that lifting two milleniums is easier as well.

[acorn]

I have to wonder.... Aaron says that about 10 years ago or so, he was Clean+Jerking over 400 pounds and deadlifting over 800. I know some have a hard time believing it but I do. People always say that overall body strength helps grip tremendously. If he would've focused on grip the way he's been doing in the past, I don't know, 2-3 years (??), back then when his overall body strength was so incredible... would it be fair to assume he would've gotten even stronger? I'm curious.

Or is there a point where overall strength doesn't help much. Like, if you can DL 500 then you're strong enough to get worldclass good at any grip event. Or a guy who DL's 750 has a greater potential just because of that?

As Eaton and I joke, "Aaron's a thoroughbred!". I think his explosiveness plays a bigger role than his overall bodystrength. I've watched Aaron compete in person twice and a ton of his videos and IMO the thing that is most impressive is how explosive he is. It's like he can just fire all his fibers at any given time. I remember watching him do 1HDL at MGC and it looked more like he was trying to explosively row it vs dl. Same thing on the grippers, who else can MMS close their choker max (at parallel)? It's obvious that he was an Elite athlete at one time and IMO that stupid amount of fast twitch fibers he has plays a bigger role than some of his gym numbers.

Thanks Josh, you guys crack me up with that. I've known some really gifted mutants that were throwers over the years. Quite a few that you would be astonished the amount of speed and power they had. my explosiveness was one of the major things that allowed me to even compete with those guys. Even at 6' I was usually the smallest by 6" or more. I wish I had been hooked on the grip bug when I was still at or near peak strength. As it is now with the back injury, and 10 years away from any training I lost a lot of strength. Even now after being back at training for nearly 3 years, I'm still not as strong as I was as a 16yr old in HS. Granted my goals have changed alot too and I no longer chase max attempts on power lifts or Olympic lifts. But still overall I feel like I have a pre-pubescent girls strength levels compared to my peak overall body strength.

Does more overall body strength help get to elite grip levels faster. I would say yes probably. but still in the long run there is no substitute for drive, motivation, and training smart. There are several examples of this on this board. guys who are not big, not particularly strong overall and still amaze me. Derek and Bob Sundin being just a couple of them.

Sorry Bob, I mixed up your screen name and last name.

- Aaron

[BrandonA]

Freak.

Nice close man.

-B

[Alawadhi]

Very well done

[thewicked]

congrats aaron! WOW!

[Blackdog]

Congratulations!!!! ..... Yikes!!!

[foxyj75]

Congrats AC!!!!