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Who Will Be The First To Ccs The Number 4


jsmiley

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Grippster

The limits are as high as the ones we set for ourselves. To say no human will TNS an average #4 is to say that all the guys who have closed a #4 on here have reached their absolute potential.

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sineparixmace
Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you support it?

Let me go ahead and answer for you. Because of what is currently

being done. Those that you know of involved in grip are minuscle

compared to the world population. You're only saying this because

of what people can currently do.

If I'm wrong here, please correct me or at least support your opinion.

I ask this nicely. :) You are correct, everyone has an opinion but it's how

you support it that makes a difference. ;)

Mighty Joe

Hi Joe-

I also respct and appreciate your opinion but I feel that you saying "the population is 7 billion, therefore someone, somewhere could TNS a #4" is just as unsupported as my own opinion. High numbers of people don't make the impossible tasks more achievable.

I'll try and support my opinion the best I can.......

I don't think a TNS #4 is possible because-

It's never been done, even Kinney couldn't do it, same for Heslep, Morton and anyone else we could mention. I mean, one of the only guys that's certed on a #4 is a former worlds strongest man.....it just shows that just to close a #4 even from a deep set that it takes abnormal levels of crush power, the kind of power that only 5 people ever have managed to build officialy close the #4.

The world population is huge but the average man on the street couldn't close a #1. If you find a really strong guy then you may see a #3 close but you'd not find a very high % of the world population that could do it. If there's a freak out there that can TNS a #4 then he'd have to be training with grippers to build up the specific mucsles needed to do it. He'd have closed a #3.5 TNS to close a #4 and chances are, small as our grip community is I think we'd of heard of him.

But the main reason I don't think a TNS #4 close will ever happen is because I feel that it's just too much for a human hand to do. I feel the #4 is about the strongest gripper a man will ever close. I used the example of the 100 meter sprint before and by your logic the if we get 7 billion people to run it then we should see the world record broken. This wouldn't happen and even if it did we'd not see it go down under 9.5 seconds as we humans can only work with human body and it'll only deliver so much. For me the #4 is the peak of gripper/crush hand strength and that's with a deep set. A TNS #4 will not happen unless- I'm wrong, or the gripper is weaker than an average #4.

I don't want to get on my soap box but for me and for the sake of the sports integrity I think all #4 closes should be calibrated. You and I know that we could both work out ways to video ourselves closing a #4 that was far weaker than a respected level of resistance. This is why for me the MM ladder is the best way to prove how good we are.

All this said, it's just my opinion mate and my opinion don't count for much untill I'm repping my Elite ;)

"Greatness" changes with time. A few years back, a Red nail was an elite DO bend. Now its nothing more than a benchmark, and even the shiny bastard isn't considered "elite" anymore. The same will happen with the edgin, KOAB, and more as time passes. This also goes for grippers. The standard of greatness will change as we all get stronger, and the next generation of gripsters join us, and make what was once considered extraordinary nothing more than a milestone. The #4 will be TNS'd. The only question of the matter is when

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AdamTGlass

I dont know who will be first, but i have no doubt what so ever that

Paul will, Chad will, Aaron will, Mob will, Teemu will. that is of course if they chose to go through the IM process. They have every charactor trait needed to complete this feat.

Dedication and time.

these men have both.

Its not a matter of impossible what so ever. I am disappointed to see people label it was impossible.

Edited by SSGGLASS
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Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you support it?

Let me go ahead and answer for you. Because of what is currently

being done. Those that you know of involved in grip are minuscle

compared to the world population. You're only saying this because

of what people can currently do.

If I'm wrong here, please correct me or at least support your opinion.

I ask this nicely. :) You are correct, everyone has an opinion but it's how

you support it that makes a difference. ;)

Mighty Joe

Hi Joe-

I also respct and appreciate your opinion but I feel that you saying "the population is 7 billion, therefore someone, somewhere could TNS a #4" is just as unsupported as my own opinion. High numbers of people don't make the impossible tasks more achievable.

I'll try and support my opinion the best I can.......

I don't think a TNS #4 is possible because-

It's never been done, even Kinney couldn't do it, same for Heslep, Morton and anyone else we could mention. I mean, one of the only guys that's certed on a #4 is a former worlds strongest man.....it just shows that just to close a #4 even from a deep set that it takes abnormal levels of crush power, the kind of power that only 5 people ever have managed to build officialy close the #4.

The world population is huge but the average man on the street couldn't close a #1. If you find a really strong guy then you may see a #3 close but you'd not find a very high % of the world population that could do it. If there's a freak out there that can TNS a #4 then he'd have to be training with grippers to build up the specific mucsles needed to do it. He'd have closed a #3.5 TNS to close a #4 and chances are, small as our grip community is I think we'd of heard of him.

But the main reason I don't think a TNS #4 close will ever happen is because I feel that it's just too much for a human hand to do. I feel the #4 is about the strongest gripper a man will ever close. I used the example of the 100 meter sprint before and by your logic the if we get 7 billion people to run it then we should see the world record broken. This wouldn't happen and even if it did we'd not see it go down under 9.5 seconds as we humans can only work with human body and it'll only deliver so much. For me the #4 is the peak of gripper/crush hand strength and that's with a deep set. A TNS #4 will not happen unless- I'm wrong, or the gripper is weaker than an average #4.

I don't want to get on my soap box but for me and for the sake of the sports integrity I think all #4 closes should be calibrated. You and I know that we could both work out ways to video ourselves closing a #4 that was far weaker than a respected level of resistance. This is why for me the MM ladder is the best way to prove how good we are.

All this said, it's just my opinion mate and my opinion don't count for much untill I'm repping my Elite ;)

Thank you Loyd.

About all I can say is we'll see.

My predictions:

Not one person will TNS a #4 but more in the near future.

Usane Bolt will run 100 meters in under 9.5 sec.

Time will tell.

I politely ask, stop limiting yourself and your thinking.

No Limits!

Mighty Joe

Joe, I have to have limits, I'm sorry to put it this way but THERE ARE LIMITS in life. Maybe a TNS #4 close isn't the limit for grippers but for me I feel it is. If you or anybody else can explain how you can view things without regard for logical thinking then I may jump on board and see EVERYTHING is possible. I can't speak on your behalf but I'm gathering that you'd be with me in thinking that "the beast" gripper can never be closed by a human. If you'd agree with me on this point you'd then have to say that you also have limits.

If you say that you would set a limit on human potential for a gripper close, what would that limit be. I'd guess most of the people that disagree with me would set a limit very close to a TNS #4 anyway.

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It's been hashed over many times before on this site, but in the minds of some there does exist some doubt as to the legitamacy of Kinney's close(s). Now, whether you subscribe to that belief or not, I would therefore be leary of making connections like "Well, Kinney looked as though he could have MMS that #4". Maybe, maybe not, but I would want some better evidence.

Anyone who believes that Joe Kinney didn't close that #4 has an axe to grind.

Call Strossen tomorrow and ask why.

It's funny how people keep spreading myth.

Investigate.

Mighty Joe

You are correct, I have an axe to grind - I think the close has considerable doubt surrounding it, it can probably never be proven one way or the other, what with Grippers being lost etc etc. Unfortunately I need evidence that something did happen rather than that it didn't.

As for calling Strossen, was he even an eye witness? I've read a report from Heath Sexton I believe stating that Kinney had remarkably strong hands when they met a (good) few years back, and that I do believe, but that is not the same thing.

As for spreading myth, do I really need to point to your parroting of the purported feats of Mac Batchelor?

In any case, in a thread about potential, I think it is relevant to point out that one of the feats that some are basing their judgements on MAY be suspect.

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mightyjoe
The limits are as high as the ones we set for ourselves. To say no human will TNS an average #4 is to say that all the guys who have closed a #4 on here have reached their absolute potential.

Nailed it!

Mighty Joe

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mightyjoe
It's been hashed over many times before on this site, but in the minds of some there does exist some doubt as to the legitamacy of Kinney's close(s). Now, whether you subscribe to that belief or not, I would therefore be leary of making connections like "Well, Kinney looked as though he could have MMS that #4". Maybe, maybe not, but I would want some better evidence.

Anyone who believes that Joe Kinney didn't close that #4 has an axe to grind.

Call Strossen tomorrow and ask why.

It's funny how people keep spreading myth.

Investigate.

Mighty Joe

You are correct, I have an axe to grind - I think the close has considerable doubt surrounding it, it can probably never be proven one way or the other, what with Grippers being lost etc etc. Unfortunately I need evidence that something did happen rather than that it didn't.

As for calling Strossen, was he even an eye witness? I've read a report from Heath Sexton I believe stating that Kinney had remarkably strong hands when they met a (good) few years back, and that I do believe, but that is not the same thing.

As for spreading myth, do I really need to point to your parroting of the purported feats of Mac Batchelor?

In any case, in a thread about potential, I think it is relevant to point out that one of the feats that some are basing their judgements on MAY be suspect.

You're mislead Mr. Skeptical.

Yes, you're part of the problem that keeps perpetuating

myths and rumors.

Do your own investigating and not let others do it for you.

I don't care if you bring up Mac's feats or not. I believe his feats and you don't.

Big flip!

Do I need to bring up the fact that you don't really believe anything can be proven?

For those that don't know, Mac believes we can't really know anything.

My question is, how does he even know that? Hilarious, just plain hilarious!

Mighty Joe

Edited by Mighty Joe
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The only thing thats stopping me doing certain feats is my own natural body strength.

Ive conditioned my mind to be able to push past certain pain barriers when i bend if i can learn to apply that to other feats i am shure i can nock out some other stuff it worked with the blob i just need to build a bit more strength gripper wise.

the Atom a 140lbs man who would have thought he could bend number 5 horseshoes with his mouth and jaw no one else is near that strength in that department and he the Atom hardly had favourable genetics infact some of the worst its his mindset that let him accomplish those feats,shure strength,a great deal of was also involved but the mind was the difference.

Kinney and the 4 close put the 4 close aside for a moment and what about his awesome TTK poundage or the inch under the table from hand to hand those are also world class yet to be equilled feats again kinney set about applying the MIND and it worked for him.

LIMIT the MIND and you LIMIT the strength that you can tap into.

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mightyjoe

To prevent further myth/rumor spreading by some I'll share with those that care

to know my own investigation as to the rumor of Joe Kinney's #4 close being suspect.

Rumor - Gripper lost

Fact - Gripper was personally seen by Strossen and he even photographed

the gripper. See page 31 of of Captains of Crush: What they are and how to close them.

Rumor - Gripper tampered with

Fact - The alleged lost gripper is sent back to Strossen himself for testing. Results? Full strength.

No tampering.

I'm saving the best one for later because I know what's fixing to come out of someone's mouth. :D

Not related to the #4 close but Joe Kinney was also the first to show video evidence of a #3

close with 2 fingers (index & middle).

If someone wants to claim that we have to personally witness a feat before it's

believable, then we might as well do away with video evidence of any feat.

Mighty Joe

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mightyjoe
The only thing thats stopping me doing certain feats is my own natural body strength.

Ive conditioned my mind to be able to push past certain pain barriers when i bend if i can learn to apply that to other feats i am shure i can nock out some other stuff it worked with the blob i just need to build a bit more strength gripper wise.

the Atom a 140lbs man who would have thought he could bend number 5 horseshoes with his mouth and jaw no one else is near that strength in that department and he the Atom hardly had favourable genetics infact some of the worst its his mindset that let him accomplish those feats,shure strength,a great deal of was also involved but the mind was the difference.

Kinney and the 4 close put the 4 close aside for a moment and what about his awesome TTK poundage or the inch under the table from hand to hand those are also world class yet to be equilled feats again kinney set about applying the MIND and it worked for him.

LIMIT the MIND and you LIMIT the strength that you can tap into.

Gazza, I agree with everything you just said, but remember, there's certain people on this

board that will not believe anything any oldtimer did such as Mighty Atom because we wasn't there

to see it. In some people's mind all the GREAT feats of the past are suspect. We didn't see them!

Anyone should be ashame of themselves for denying Joe Kinney credit on his #4 close because they

want to believe rumors to the contrary. Imagine all the hard work Joe Kinney did to accomplish this

stupendous feat?

Mighty Joe

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Rick Browne

Let`s discontinue the argumentive posts concerning Joe Kinney. Either you believe he is legit or you do not. The topic of JK has been hashed over and is as old as the board. I see no further productive discussion can be made. Let's move on. Thanks.

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mightyjoe
Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you support it?

Let me go ahead and answer for you. Because of what is currently

being done. Those that you know of involved in grip are minuscle

compared to the world population. You're only saying this because

of what people can currently do.

If I'm wrong here, please correct me or at least support your opinion.

I ask this nicely. :) You are correct, everyone has an opinion but it's how

you support it that makes a difference. ;)

Mighty Joe

Hi Joe-

I also respct and appreciate your opinion but I feel that you saying "the population is 7 billion, therefore someone, somewhere could TNS a #4" is just as unsupported as my own opinion. High numbers of people don't make the impossible tasks more achievable.

I'll try and support my opinion the best I can.......

I don't think a TNS #4 is possible because-

It's never been done, even Kinney couldn't do it, same for Heslep, Morton and anyone else we could mention. I mean, one of the only guys that's certed on a #4 is a former worlds strongest man.....it just shows that just to close a #4 even from a deep set that it takes abnormal levels of crush power, the kind of power that only 5 people ever have managed to build officialy close the #4.

The world population is huge but the average man on the street couldn't close a #1. If you find a really strong guy then you may see a #3 close but you'd not find a very high % of the world population that could do it. If there's a freak out there that can TNS a #4 then he'd have to be training with grippers to build up the specific mucsles needed to do it. He'd have closed a #3.5 TNS to close a #4 and chances are, small as our grip community is I think we'd of heard of him.

But the main reason I don't think a TNS #4 close will ever happen is because I feel that it's just too much for a human hand to do. I feel the #4 is about the strongest gripper a man will ever close. I used the example of the 100 meter sprint before and by your logic the if we get 7 billion people to run it then we should see the world record broken. This wouldn't happen and even if it did we'd not see it go down under 9.5 seconds as we humans can only work with human body and it'll only deliver so much. For me the #4 is the peak of gripper/crush hand strength and that's with a deep set. A TNS #4 will not happen unless- I'm wrong, or the gripper is weaker than an average #4.

I don't want to get on my soap box but for me and for the sake of the sports integrity I think all #4 closes should be calibrated. You and I know that we could both work out ways to video ourselves closing a #4 that was far weaker than a respected level of resistance. This is why for me the MM ladder is the best way to prove how good we are.

All this said, it's just my opinion mate and my opinion don't count for much untill I'm repping my Elite ;)

Thank you Loyd.

About all I can say is we'll see.

My predictions:

Not one person will TNS a #4 but more in the near future.

Usane Bolt will run 100 meters in under 9.5 sec.

Time will tell.

I politely ask, stop limiting yourself and your thinking.

No Limits!

Mighty Joe

Joe, I have to have limits, I'm sorry to put it this way but THERE ARE LIMITS in life. Maybe a TNS #4 close isn't the limit for grippers but for me I feel it is. If you or anybody else can explain how you can view things without regard for logical thinking then I may jump on board and see EVERYTHING is possible. I can't speak on your behalf but I'm gathering that you'd be with me in thinking that "the beast" gripper can never be closed by a human. If you'd agree with me on this point you'd then have to say that you also have limits.

If you say that you would set a limit on human potential for a gripper close, what would that limit be. I'd guess most of the people that disagree with me would set a limit very close to a TNS #4 anyway.

Don't limit your mind, the rest will follow.

You're thinking of only one side of the picture (physical).

I would agree with you that there's physical limits, but they are created by the mind

which would mean we can't know those physical limits because of the mind/body

connection.

Ask yourself this: Why would it be physically impossible for a human to ever close the "BEAST" gripper.

I can't say with 100% accuracy that it will never be done. There's a high probability that it will not,

but speaking for myself, I can't say with certainty that it will not.

This is what I meant by people claiming what can and can't be done by what is

currently being accomplished. Just because so-and-so can't do it, it can't be done.

I politely disagree.

You've made some good points Loyd but for me it's "No Limits"!

Mighty Joe

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mightyjoe
Let`s discontinue the argumentive posts concerning Joe Kinney. Either you believe he is legit or you do not. The topic of JK has been hashed over and is as old as the board. I see no further productive discussion can be made. Let's move on. Thanks.

Agreed.

Thanks Zcor!

Mighty Joe

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Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you support it?

Let me go ahead and answer for you. Because of what is currently

being done. Those that you know of involved in grip are minuscle

compared to the world population. You're only saying this because

of what people can currently do.

If I'm wrong here, please correct me or at least support your opinion.

I ask this nicely. :) You are correct, everyone has an opinion but it's how

you support it that makes a difference. ;)

Mighty Joe

Hi Joe-

I also respct and appreciate your opinion but I feel that you saying "the population is 7 billion, therefore someone, somewhere could TNS a #4" is just as unsupported as my own opinion. High numbers of people don't make the impossible tasks more achievable.

I'll try and support my opinion the best I can.......

I don't think a TNS #4 is possible because-

It's never been done, even Kinney couldn't do it, same for Heslep, Morton and anyone else we could mention. I mean, one of the only guys that's certed on a #4 is a former worlds strongest man.....it just shows that just to close a #4 even from a deep set that it takes abnormal levels of crush power, the kind of power that only 5 people ever have managed to build officialy close the #4.

The world population is huge but the average man on the street couldn't close a #1. If you find a really strong guy then you may see a #3 close but you'd not find a very high % of the world population that could do it. If there's a freak out there that can TNS a #4 then he'd have to be training with grippers to build up the specific mucsles needed to do it. He'd have closed a #3.5 TNS to close a #4 and chances are, small as our grip community is I think we'd of heard of him.

But the main reason I don't think a TNS #4 close will ever happen is because I feel that it's just too much for a human hand to do. I feel the #4 is about the strongest gripper a man will ever close. I used the example of the 100 meter sprint before and by your logic the if we get 7 billion people to run it then we should see the world record broken. This wouldn't happen and even if it did we'd not see it go down under 9.5 seconds as we humans can only work with human body and it'll only deliver so much. For me the #4 is the peak of gripper/crush hand strength and that's with a deep set. A TNS #4 will not happen unless- I'm wrong, or the gripper is weaker than an average #4.

I don't want to get on my soap box but for me and for the sake of the sports integrity I think all #4 closes should be calibrated. You and I know that we could both work out ways to video ourselves closing a #4 that was far weaker than a respected level of resistance. This is why for me the MM ladder is the best way to prove how good we are.

All this said, it's just my opinion mate and my opinion don't count for much untill I'm repping my Elite ;)

Thank you Loyd.

About all I can say is we'll see.

My predictions:

Not one person will TNS a #4 but more in the near future.

Usane Bolt will run 100 meters in under 9.5 sec.

Time will tell.

I politely ask, stop limiting yourself and your thinking.

No Limits!

Mighty Joe

Joe, I have to have limits, I'm sorry to put it this way but THERE ARE LIMITS in life. Maybe a TNS #4 close isn't the limit for grippers but for me I feel it is. If you or anybody else can explain how you can view things without regard for logical thinking then I may jump on board and see EVERYTHING is possible. I can't speak on your behalf but I'm gathering that you'd be with me in thinking that "the beast" gripper can never be closed by a human. If you'd agree with me on this point you'd then have to say that you also have limits.

If you say that you would set a limit on human potential for a gripper close, what would that limit be. I'd guess most of the people that disagree with me would set a limit very close to a TNS #4 anyway.

Don't limit your mind, the rest will follow.

You're thinking of only one side of the picture (physical).

I would agree with you that there's physical limits, but they are created by the mind

which would mean we can't know those physical limits because of the mind/body

connection.

Ask yourself this: Why would it be physically impossible for a human to ever close the "BEAST" gripper.

I can't say with 100% accuracy that it will never be done. There's a high probability that it will not,

but speaking for myself, I can't say with certainty that it will not.

This is what I meant by people claiming what can and can't be done by what is

currently being accomplished. Just because so-and-so can't do it, it can't be done.

I politely disagree.

You've made some good points Loyd but for me it's "No Limits"!

Mighty Joe

Only time will tell Joe, maybe a #4 will be TNS'd today by someone, maybe it'll happen in a year or so, untill it's done though my reasoning on this matter seems to be holding up as a TNS #4 close has never been done. Many grip greats have got nowhere near a CCS #4 let alone a TNS.

Time will tell.

As far as

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Pancake Sprawl

i don't want to sound like i'm bragging, but i think in 2 years i will no set a #4. after that, it's only a matter of months before TNS, because i can position grippers in my hand without using my other hand.

and i'm weak compared to a lot of guys on here, and i'm nothing special ...just an average guy. so i think someone who is beastly like Mark Felix or somebody of that nature would be able to TNS with 1 year of training.

in fact, if i remember correctly Andrus Murmets said he was extremely close to closing the #4.

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i don't want to sound like i'm bragging, but i think in 2 years i will no set a #4. after that, it's only a matter of months before TNS, because i can position grippers in my hand without using my other hand.

and i'm weak compared to a lot of guys on here, and i'm nothing special ...just an average guy. so i think someone who is beastly like Mark Felix or somebody of that nature would be able to TNS with 1 year of training.

in fact, if i remember correctly Andrus Murmets said he was extremely close to closing the #4.

Not to be jerk but I guess I didn't realize you were some elite crusher?? What's your best close now?

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lifesnotfair

Do you guys remember this video?

Look at the date it was uploaded, January 2007 ... 2 whole years ago. Look at the more recent videos that guy has uploaded - none seems grip related, but stuff like 425 push press, 815x3 deadlift, 315x2 STRICT standing press, and some crazy bench and reverse grip bench numbers, has me thinking he's very, VERY strong. His horrible (yes, horrible, even for a TNS there is some technique to it!) technique shown in the #4 attempt video makes me think that if he would've focused on this gripper from the date of this video (over 2 years old!!!) he'd be doing great on that TNS attempt. Maybe not closing it, but would be DAMN close. If you turn your volume up and try to ignore the background music in this video, you can clearly hear the spring making "creaking" (sp?) sounds, which probably means if it were oiled properly he'd do better. And with some tips and practise of his TNS technique... that, and seeing the strength gains evidenced by his videos from the last two years, lead me to believe he'd be near this feat, if he would've focused on it.

Not stating a fact or anything, just an opinion.. :)

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Wade Gillingham
Do you guys remember this video?

Look at the date it was uploaded, January 2007 ... 2 whole years ago. Look at the more recent videos that guy has uploaded - none seems grip related, but stuff like 425 push press, 815x3 deadlift, 315x2 STRICT standing press, and some crazy bench and reverse grip bench numbers, has me thinking he's very, VERY strong. His horrible (yes, horrible, even for a TNS there is some technique to it!) technique shown in the #4 attempt video makes me think that if he would've focused on this gripper from the date of this video (over 2 years old!!!) he'd be doing great on that TNS attempt. Maybe not closing it, but would be DAMN close. If you turn your volume up and try to ignore the background music in this video, you can clearly hear the spring making "creaking" (sp?) sounds, which probably means if it were oiled properly he'd do better. And with some tips and practise of his TNS technique... that, and seeing the strength gains evidenced by his videos from the last two years, lead me to believe he'd be near this feat, if he would've focused on it.

Not stating a fact or anything, just an opinion.. :)

That's John Connor - professional strongman. He did the heavy grip gauntlet in LA this year. Mashed the 3 right and left with basically no set and was very very close on the 3.5. This was after competing for 2 days.

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Pancake Sprawl
i don't want to sound like i'm bragging, but i think in 2 years i will no set a #4. after that, it's only a matter of months before TNS, because i can position grippers in my hand without using my other hand.

and i'm weak compared to a lot of guys on here, and i'm nothing special ...just an average guy. so i think someone who is beastly like Mark Felix or somebody of that nature would be able to TNS with 1 year of training.

in fact, if i remember correctly Andrus Murmets said he was extremely close to closing the #4.

Not to be jerk but I guess I didn't realize you were some elite crusher?? What's your best close now?

i'm not an elite crusher, i'm a newb ...that's the whole point i'm making. he's saying it's impossible for ANYONE to EVER TNS a #4, and i'm just as close to closing the #4 as that strongman vid of John Connor that the other guy posted and he doesn't even train grip. now, imagine you take that guy's potential and you cultivate it over 1 year. this guy would absolutely be within reach of TNS a #4. i'm not saying he'd do it to every #4, but A #4 ...most certainly imho.

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Bob Lipinski

Perspective.

TNS a #4? Maybe. A weak one. TNS or CC cert with a 4? This is likely a ways off, and only to be accomplished by a rare freak.

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mightyjoe
Do you guys remember this video?

Look at the date it was uploaded, January 2007 ... 2 whole years ago. Look at the more recent videos that guy has uploaded - none seems grip related, but stuff like 425 push press, 815x3 deadlift, 315x2 STRICT standing press, and some crazy bench and reverse grip bench numbers, has me thinking he's very, VERY strong. His horrible (yes, horrible, even for a TNS there is some technique to it!) technique shown in the #4 attempt video makes me think that if he would've focused on this gripper from the date of this video (over 2 years old!!!) he'd be doing great on that TNS attempt. Maybe not closing it, but would be DAMN close. If you turn your volume up and try to ignore the background music in this video, you can clearly hear the spring making "creaking" (sp?) sounds, which probably means if it were oiled properly he'd do better. And with some tips and practise of his TNS technique... that, and seeing the strength gains evidenced by his videos from the last two years, lead me to believe he'd be near this feat, if he would've focused on it.

Not stating a fact or anything, just an opinion.. :)

Thanks for posting this Arturo. :)

Mighty Joe

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mightyjoe
Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you support it?

Let me go ahead and answer for you. Because of what is currently

being done. Those that you know of involved in grip are minuscle

compared to the world population. You're only saying this because

of what people can currently do.

If I'm wrong here, please correct me or at least support your opinion.

I ask this nicely. :) You are correct, everyone has an opinion but it's how

you support it that makes a difference. ;)

Mighty Joe

Hi Joe-

I also respct and appreciate your opinion but I feel that you saying "the population is 7 billion, therefore someone, somewhere could TNS a #4" is just as unsupported as my own opinion. High numbers of people don't make the impossible tasks more achievable.

I'll try and support my opinion the best I can.......

I don't think a TNS #4 is possible because-

It's never been done, even Kinney couldn't do it, same for Heslep, Morton and anyone else we could mention. I mean, one of the only guys that's certed on a #4 is a former worlds strongest man.....it just shows that just to close a #4 even from a deep set that it takes abnormal levels of crush power, the kind of power that only 5 people ever have managed to build officialy close the #4.

The world population is huge but the average man on the street couldn't close a #1. If you find a really strong guy then you may see a #3 close but you'd not find a very high % of the world population that could do it. If there's a freak out there that can TNS a #4 then he'd have to be training with grippers to build up the specific mucsles needed to do it. He'd have closed a #3.5 TNS to close a #4 and chances are, small as our grip community is I think we'd of heard of him.

But the main reason I don't think a TNS #4 close will ever happen is because I feel that it's just too much for a human hand to do. I feel the #4 is about the strongest gripper a man will ever close. I used the example of the 100 meter sprint before and by your logic the if we get 7 billion people to run it then we should see the world record broken. This wouldn't happen and even if it did we'd not see it go down under 9.5 seconds as we humans can only work with human body and it'll only deliver so much. For me the #4 is the peak of gripper/crush hand strength and that's with a deep set. A TNS #4 will not happen unless- I'm wrong, or the gripper is weaker than an average #4.

I don't want to get on my soap box but for me and for the sake of the sports integrity I think all #4 closes should be calibrated. You and I know that we could both work out ways to video ourselves closing a #4 that was far weaker than a respected level of resistance. This is why for me the MM ladder is the best way to prove how good we are.

All this said, it's just my opinion mate and my opinion don't count for much untill I'm repping my Elite ;)

Thank you Loyd.

About all I can say is we'll see.

My predictions:

Not one person will TNS a #4 but more in the near future.

Usane Bolt will run 100 meters in under 9.5 sec.

Time will tell.

I politely ask, stop limiting yourself and your thinking.

No Limits!

Mighty Joe

Joe, I have to have limits, I'm sorry to put it this way but THERE ARE LIMITS in life. Maybe a TNS #4 close isn't the limit for grippers but for me I feel it is. If you or anybody else can explain how you can view things without regard for logical thinking then I may jump on board and see EVERYTHING is possible. I can't speak on your behalf but I'm gathering that you'd be with me in thinking that "the beast" gripper can never be closed by a human. If you'd agree with me on this point you'd then have to say that you also have limits.

If you say that you would set a limit on human potential for a gripper close, what would that limit be. I'd guess most of the people that disagree with me would set a limit very close to a TNS #4 anyway.

Don't limit your mind, the rest will follow.

You're thinking of only one side of the picture (physical).

I would agree with you that there's physical limits, but they are created by the mind

which would mean we can't know those physical limits because of the mind/body

connection.

Ask yourself this: Why would it be physically impossible for a human to ever close the "BEAST" gripper.

I can't say with 100% accuracy that it will never be done. There's a high probability that it will not,

but speaking for myself, I can't say with certainty that it will not.

This is what I meant by people claiming what can and can't be done by what is

currently being accomplished. Just because so-and-so can't do it, it can't be done.

I politely disagree.

You've made some good points Loyd but for me it's "No Limits"!

Mighty Joe

Only time will tell Joe, maybe a #4 will be TNS'd today by someone, maybe it'll happen in a year or so, untill it's done though my reasoning on this matter seems to be holding up as a TNS #4 close has never been done. Many grip greats have got nowhere near a CCS #4 let alone a TNS.

Time will tell.

As far as

Again, good points Loyd.

Thanks for your kind conversation. First Class! :)

Mighty Joe

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mobsterone

Steve has that book an the kinney #4 does look to be unusually high mounted, but i dont think the close is in any way shady. Regardless of how hard the gripper is, it's very impressive how he grinds it, and his video is something i recommend.

As far as an average #4 tns being impossible, thats just not true, it's not even close. With my left hand, which has been my focus because it was always weaker, ive gone from a couple reps on the trainer to hard 3.5 for multiple singles, in 3 years. This is not tns but that is not the point of it, point is if a normal everyday guy like me can go from a trainer to 3.75 (or whatever) in 3 years, what happens when rich williams puts the same amount of focus/effort i have into it for 20 years? think about it, he has credit card certed the 3.5 within a couple weeks of touching a gripper! if he improved the same as me a #4 for him would literally be like a #1 is for me now. An this is not some freak accident thing, anybody can improve like that, the genetic freaks like rich certainly can! probably can improve much more.

For the everyday, you, me an joe blogs guys, a #4 tns is still not impossible, but dont get me wrong, it's very hard. However before you say 'no human can do it' you have to consider that a mark henry or a rich williams may as well not be human when compared to the average guy, for rich certing on the #4 is now like it is for most guys going from a #1 to a #2.

Paul Savage

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Bob Lipinski

I also factor in that most guys who are really, really strong already have competitive aspirations in other areas.

Has an average (for now it seems) 220 #4 even been closed MMS? I think Chad is maybe the only one? Yep, it is possible but let's start seeing people MMS the 210+ grippers regularly before we start talking about the TNS.

Also, regarding improvement, I think the strong guys already have a very good base level of hand strength. They might get alot out of technique at first, but their grip is hardly "untrained".

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