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Who Will Be The First To Ccs The Number 4


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Bob Lipinski

I think that with some (and in many cases little to none) concentrated training, alot of strongmen would blow the grip community's axle lifts away. Same goes for RT, blob, inch, etc. I'd imagine alot of football players would do the same. I think there might be some standouts in grippers, but on the whole grip guys wouldn't get blown away by guys who didn't train them. Just my thoughts.

I would be interested in what alot of those guys have for a pinch. I know Wade can hang in that regard. Wade in fact is a good example of what one of those types can do. Untrained, I am thinking the top grip guys are quite a bit better than strongmen types on the Euro pinch.

There is lots of crossover talent in strength sports anyways. Lots of throwers make good powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongmen, and back and forth all kinds of ways.

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The Natural
I think that with some (and in many cases little to none) concentrated training, alot of strongmen would blow the grip community's axle lifts away. Same goes for RT, blob, inch, etc. I'd imagine alot of football players would do the same. I think there might be some standouts in grippers, but on the whole grip guys wouldn't get blown away by guys who didn't train them. Just my thoughts.

I would be interested in what alot of those guys have for a pinch. I know Wade can hang in that regard. Wade in fact is a good example of what one of those types can do. Untrained, I am thinking the top grip guys are quite a bit better than strongmen types on the Euro pinch.

There is lots of crossover talent in strength sports anyways. Lots of throwers make good powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongmen, and back and forth all kinds of ways.

Yeah.

Just look at the Axle clean and press event at the Arnold.

366 pounds (right?). These guys are cleaning and pressing it, let's say, an average of three times. Let's suppose as a conservative estimate that they could increase this number to 5 within the time limit, if they were only required to clean it (and not worry with the press).

Cleaning an axle weighing 366 pounds, 5 times. I'd say that would put their axle DO deadlift max around 470+, easily.

Most grip guys would want to say, I think, that 400 pounds is "world class" as a DO axle lift. I think we've got some evidence that world class is projected to be somewhere above 500. (Though maybe not much higher than that).

-Rex

Edited by The Natural
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Grippster

Strongmen are naturally bigger and more muscular than average people. Many people on the gripboard who eventually work up to closing a #3 are pretty much "normal". In fact even guys like Paul or Steve I wouldn't call "freaks". The thing about strongmen however is that they focus more on overall strength for the competitions. We focus on overall strength too but much of it is grip training. Like previously mentioned many times on the gb, if Magnus devoted his time to only grip strength he'd kill us in pinching/grippers.

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Bob Lipinski

We'll see about that Rex. We've had some- Not a ton- very gifted strength guys give the axle a go. Odd Haugen and Ryan Klein come to mind. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the numbers would thin out to only a few after 450+, especially if the axle comes later in the comp.

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Chris Mathison
Just look at the Axle clean and press event at the Arnold.

366 pounds (right?). These guys are cleaning and pressing it, let's say, an average of three times. Let's suppose as a conservative estimate that they could increase this number to 5 within the time limit, if they were only required to clean it (and not worry with the press).

Cleaning an axle weighing 366 pounds, 5 times. I'd say that would put their axle DO deadlift max around 470+, easily.

Most grip guys would want to say, I think, that 400 pounds is "world class" as a DO axle lift. I think we've got some evidence that world class is projected to be somewhere above 500. (Though maybe not much higher than that).

-Rex

i like your point and agree. If memory serves Misha DO cleaned his first five reps before his grip started giving. Also the weights are welded on and I would think that plays a roll in the weight wanting to roll out of your hands more so than a revolving sleeve with weights. Making the appolons more difficult than say a 366 IM axle deadlift.

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I agree with Rex and Bob. Sincerely, not to turn this into the weekly handsize debate but if a guy is pulling over 800# and his hands are big enough to hook grip the thing, why is it so shocking that he could DL 300# UNDER his max? Huge deadlifters with HUGE hands are going to move huge weight on the axle. As for Ryan Klein: I think he has like 8.25" hands? Big for sure but not on the level with some of the freakshows in strongman. You gonna tell me if Ryan had 9"+ hands he couldn't pull over 500#? Come on ;)

On a side note regarding rotation: Did anybody see the video for Misha clean and jerking that 501 on a "nonrotating bar" tying some record? Looked like an olympic barbell to me, how was that nonrotating?

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Wade Gillingham

Misha power cleaned 8 reps and had the 9th to his chest but couldn't turn his wrists over. I think he tried to reverse grip the 9th one but was too gassed. The appollons wheels used at the arnold are solid and the bar is slightly smaller than 2" and lightly knurled. This makes it easier to clean than a regular appollons axle but harder to control on top and press. The bar Misha clean and jerked on sunday was a regular old york power bar that did rotate (I saw it in back). The difference was the iron plates take the whip out of the bar.

As far as strongman and grip, the stronger the person the stronger the supporting grip, in general. You also see some carry over in pinch, but not as much, and even less with grippers. I would bet every one of the strongman competitors last weekend could do the 207 rolling thunder (easy), less than half would do the blob, and maybe a couple would do the #3, but likely none if they hadn't at least played with grippers before and for sure none without some coaching on where to put the gripper. I've seen enough high level strongmen come through the grip gauntlet to know this.

I still takes some training and technique to be really good at grip feats but the stronger you are - especially a high level strongman that already has a good sized hand - the easier it is going to be with minimal training. Just look at Rich Williams certifying on the 3.5 after 2 or 3 weeks of playing with grippers.

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mightyjoe
Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

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The Natural
I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

What gripper did he close?

-Rex

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Hubgeezer
Untrained, I am thinking the top grip guys are quite a bit better than strongmen types on the Euro pinch.

I agree with this.

On a different subject, I think IM ought to offer money for the "next" Number 4 gripper. There really does seem to be quite a buzz among "different types" on this subject right now, and a reasonable sum like $400 (he was offering $300 for a 300 lb RT a few years ago) might bring more attention.

Quite frankly, I bet the Gripboard members would "pass the hat" and offer money for such a feat. That might be more realistic to do than IronMind, and the pot would probably be larger. A couple of years ago, Richard Sorin said he would pay for $1000 for a woman to CCS a No. 3 in the next year. I chimed in and said I would do $100. Times are tougher now, but if it were part of a Gripboard initiative, and the goal was to give a tidy sum to a deserving hard-working fellow, I would donate $50 to the cause. I wouldn't want to collect it, administer it, etc, but I would donate to it. We could say the person had to be a member of the Gripboard - - you might get some guys signing up just to qualify.

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Bob Lipinski

I would be very happy to put up some money, but it would have to be done at my contest :) I'd need some firm commitments because I would want to get some new people. Not that there is anything wrong with the same old guys, but it is alot of work getting the money together.

I generally agree with you Wade. I would like to see what those guys can do on a normal diameter OHDL. I would not be suprised if it was in the 300+ pound range, though it would be interesting to see. I also think that seasoned grip guys would benefit from holding 700+ in their hands one way or another.

The pinch, grippers, and wrist events might be what the "grip guys" do best on, compared to strongman types who don't seriously train grip.

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Bob Lipinski

Also, I guess grip guys shouldn't be too upset that some Strongmen could come in and kick major ass. Like I wrote before, the crossover among strength sports is huge. In more general terms, strength sports in the US would probably be totally different if football didn't drain away some of the top talent.

Still though, I think that with traditional events, many top level strongmen would be hard pressed to whip on the very top tier of grip guys.

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DannyGrip

Back in 2003 IronMind made the rules that the gripper handles must be 1" apart before the close takes place.

So Deep Setting was allowed but only to the point of 1".

Then a year later it changed to Credit Card distance because it was hard to enforce the 1" because there was no real way to measure it.

They started giving out a Certification card later on which was Credit Card distance and this was to be used to try and CCS the #3 or #4 for Certifcation.

I'm wondering why didn't IronMind just make a Certifcation card that was 1" long and just enforce that this card be used each and every time someone tried to certify? This way there would be no doubt that the space would always be 1".

All the CoC's up until mid-2004 closed with this kind of Deep Set and it was fine.

Edited by DannyGrip
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Wade Gillingham
Back in 2003 IronMind made the rules that the gripper handles must be 1" apart before the close takes place.

So Deep Setting was allowed but only to the point of 1".

Then a year later it changed to Credit Card distance because it was hard to enforce the 1" because there was no real way to measure it.

They started giving out a Certification card later on which was Credit Card distance and this was to be used to try and CCS the #3 or #4 for Certifcation.

I'm wondering why didn't IronMind just make a Certifcation card that was 1" long and just enforce that this card be used each and every time someone tried to certify? This way there would be no doubt that the space would always be 1".

All the CoC's up until mid-2004 closed with this kind of Deep Set and it was fine.

Because it was never their intention to have people deep setting grippers and they were surprised when this started happening. When this practice started they put the 1" thing in their rules which i'm not sure even existed prior (I never saw written rules until the 1" rule was there). After seeing that the 1" distance was being abused they came up with something that could be physically measured and they wanted to use something that was common place. Not everyone certified on the #3 with a deep set but many did and as the list grew they (Ironmind) started paying more attention to how the gripper was being closed and had to first establish rules and later modify rules. I would encourage any of you with questions on this to contact Ironmind directly - I don't want to say anymore about their business.

The practice of setting grippers is something that is relatively new and every major gripper certification out there addresses this in one way or another, so I think they all agree that it needs to be controlled but differ in their opinion about the proper distance.

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I think the credit card INSERT itself needs to be addressed there is a would of difference in how Tex as strong as he is inserted the card and how the Finns do it?

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mightyjoe
I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

What gripper did he close?

-Rex

He came within an 1/8" on a #3 with no set whatsoever.

His left hand never touched the gripper and the instant I

handed it to him he just squeezed the thing. A lot of people

on a no-set close mess around with the gripper trying to get

it just right in their hand. He did none of this. To top things off,

he (not knowing any better) had his huge hand high up on the gripper

handles. Incredible!!!

Later that day me and Coleman was sitting around talking strength

and I handed him a #2 to see how many reps he could get with it.

At rep 17 he paused and ask me how many I wanted him to do.

Crazy!These reps were full range and slow. He let the gripper open

all the way up and then slowly shut it each time. I heard the handles

click each time. It seemd as if he could go on forever. I was speechless.

Remember, back then shutting a #2 was really something as opposed to now

and no one had even heard of setting a gripper.

I was super impressed! To this day I haven't personally witnessed a gripper

close near as impressive. I asked Ronnie that day if he trained grip specifically

and he said NO. He also stated that unil that day he had never squeezed a hand

gripper except for the plastic type.

If anyone ever tells you Ronnie Coleman's grip isn't STRONG, they are only

fooling themselves.

Mighty Joe

Edited by Mighty Joe
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Ronnie Coleman IS a monster but I didn't expect him to have such a strong grip (Well, I should have known better). Nice story, Joe! Thanks for sharing! ;)

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Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

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Later that day me and Coleman was sitting around talking strength

and I handed him a #2 to see how many reps he could get with it.

At rep 17 he paused and ask me how many I wanted him to do.

Crazy!These reps were full range and slow. He let the gripper open

all the way up and then slowly shut it each time. I heard the handles

click each time. It seemd as if he could go on forever. I was speechless.

Remember, back then shutting a #2 was really something as opposed to now

and no one had even heard of setting a gripper.

Mighty Joe

But that's because the #2 ain't nuthin' but a peanut ;)

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Pancake Sprawl
Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

if it's possible then it will happen, maybe not in our lifetime but it will.

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Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

if it's possible then it will happen, maybe not in our lifetime but it will.

Yeah but that's my point..........It's easy to say it's "possible" to TNS a #4 but doing it has never proved possible because as far as we know, nobodys ever done it. Look how many years it's taken for the 100 meters world record to change from 10 seconds to shaving milliseconds off it. It's like you know the world record will be broken again one day but you also know it'll never be run under 9 seconds because of human capabilities. A cheeta can run it under 9 seconds but a man can't. Maybe a Gorilla can TNS a #4 but a man can't. You have to say there's a limit of what a man will ever be able to do on grippers and you'd have to say it looks like a #4 is around the human gripper close limit. If a #5 was made people would still say "it's possible to close" but to be honest, possible means jack**** unless it's done.

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Pancake Sprawl

i don't see how it's impossible, people are getting very close to doing it, look at paul knight and mobsterone. they handled the #4 with relative ease with a pretty wide set. it's only a matter of time before it falls imo, now if they made a #5 or if you're talking about closing the beast gripper, then no i don't think it would be possible ...but it's very possible simply because it's very close to be being done.

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Brian Shaw or Rich Williams will do it first.

Ronnie Coleman could be first if he even half way

trained grippers.

I'll never forget his demonstration of gripper POWER

in 1996 at a Strongman Contest Bill Holland hosted.

For those of you that don't know, Ronnie Coleman's grip

is absolutely crazy STRONG and he doens't even train it.

It's sad that people only believe what's possible by what people

are currently doing. I honestly believe with the world population

nearing the 7 billion mark, there's someone out there lurking

around that could TNS a #4.

Mighty Joe

A TNS close of new #4 and a average #4 not an easy one will never happen. A CCS ain't gonna happen in my opinion and if it ever did I think it'd be on a #4 that cal'd under average. A TNS though...........no chance, maybe for a robo-cop in the future but for a normal guy NO CHANCE. It's like saying "one day" a guy will run 100 meters in 6 seconds, it's possible yeah but it's never really going to happen. Just my 2 pence........

The term "average" seems to move year to year. I find it amusing that 199# is the toughest #4 closed that we know about/has been cal'd and it's considered easy. If IM starts putting out 230# #4's as a standard will 220#s be considered easy?

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climber511
I received my new CoC #4 yesterday and wanted to try a MMS right out of the package. I closed it first try. I then calibrated the gripper and it came out to 205#. Is this correct for a new #4...I thought it would be higher.

I do not train the CCS...but after this close...I will start.

Just a little something to think about. I just finished calibrating some grippers for Lone Wolf (Robert). His #4 was a newer model with chrome spring - I don't know it's age or history at all. I started piling on weight until I was shaking my head in disbelief. I could hear the gripper creaking as I did it. When it finally touched - it was 256# - Holy Moley!!! Let's see someone close that sucker. I contacted Robert and asked if he wanted me to oil them and recalibrate them - he did and I did. The #4 came in at 214+ - quite a difference. All the other grippers came in less as well but only by a few pounds, none even close to the change seen in this one. Not new out of the package of course but let's say that gripper was the one you opened - Good Luck to you! And yes - 210 to 220 seems to be a good average for a #4.

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The Natural
The term "average" seems to move year to year. I find it amusing that 199# is the toughest #4 closed that we know about/has been cal'd and it's considered easy. If IM starts putting out 230# #4's as a standard will 220#s be considered easy?

Chad's 205# close is the best we know of, I think.

Also, Paul tells me that you need to be able to MMS a gripper about 5 times in a row to be able to CCS it. So, to throw a new angle on the question, is there anyone out there who is close to closing a 210#-220# #4, 5 times in a row with a MMS?

-Rex

Edited by The Natural
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