Best Armwrestler Ever

[jad]

jad, do you know what the differences are?

From the way Warren described it, it sounded like the classic novice match. Basically you keep your arm somewhere around 90 degrees and are using pure side pressure. Your hand is blocking your opponent's elbow in place because it's not supposed to move. When he said 'armbending', I just assumed that was his name for AW, but he went on to clarify what it was and made it clear he was not talking about the AW we do today. He made it very clear there was a difference.

[fightertrainer]

I went and search for Mac Bachelor. I've found out he was selected for AW hall of fame. Same place Dennis Rogers slected, and many present day pros there too. I assume John B will be there too. It is safe to say that the people who've selected him know what they doing. And it's reasonable to say they must know about Mac more then we do here. He's not only AW in bar to be selected. We know about him in bar matches because that was where he last seen AW in his advanced age. I would not put him down w/o knowing all the facts. Respect the elder and previous generation achievements is always my things to observe.

[fightertrainer]

Another words, Mac was the only one i know who was at the top of grip game and top AWer in his day, I meant probably very top level in his day. And it's really hard to be excelled at both in any generation at the very top. If he'd lived in present doing all the training for new technics, he would have been still at the very top tier AWer

[darthsith19]

You're right he is listed in the hall of fame. If he were really better than Brzenk, Cleve Dean, Garry Goodridge, ect. I think more people would talk about him and more would be known about him, though.

[jad]

I went and search for Mac Bachelor. I've found out he was selected for AW hall of fame. Same place Dennis Rogers slected, and many present day pros there too. I assume John B will be there too. It is safe to say that the people who've selected him know what they doing. And it's reasonable to say they must know about Mac more then we do here. He's not only AW in bar to be selected. We know about him in bar matches because that was where he last seen AW in his advanced age. I would not put him down w/o knowing all the facts. Respect the elder and previous generation achievements is always my things to observe.

I'm not putting him down, just repeating what I heard from Warren. I'd say Warren has a pretty fair grasp of Strength History. I found it interesting that the "armwrestling" he did was different and thought I'd pass it along. Not less impressive, just different. As for his grip feats, I've seen John Eaton do the bottlecap between the fingers on numerous occasions. A couple of us were playing with the bottle by the lip with the forefinger and thumb and maybe we were doing it wrong or just had the wrong size bottle but we didn't think it was absurdly hard. If I remember right we had a 22oz?? It was after BBBIII if anyone who was there and remembers wants to chime in.

[gazza]

Wasnt arm wrestling called wrist wrestling before it was known as arm wrestling and would it not be more a test of wrist strength if certain techniques are not allowed like today.

Im suprised no ones mentioned Mo Baker hes a more modern arm wrestler than Mac was.

Didnt Goerner once beat quite a few ranked at the time arm wrestlers.

How much does technique play a part in todays modern arm wrestling would someone with exceptional i mean world class hand,wrist and forearm strength be a force i mean you have to capture the hand and wrist to defeat the other guy dont you or is it not that simple what im saying is a guy like Mac Batchelor if you could not take his hand and wrist could you still beat him useing just technique.

[mightyjoe]

Wasnt arm wrestling called wrist wrestling before it was known as arm wrestling and would it not be more a test of wrist strength if certain techniques are not allowed like today.

Im suprised no ones mentioned Mo Baker hes a more modern arm wrestler than Mac was.

Didnt Goerner once beat quite a few ranked at the time arm wrestlers.

How much does technique play a part in todays modern arm wrestling would someone with exceptional i mean world class hand,wrist and forearm strength be a force i mean you have to capture the hand and wrist to defeat the other guy dont you or is it not that simple what im saying is a guy like Mac Batchelor if you could not take his hand and wrist could you still beat him useing just technique.

In my research Goener never lost either.

Arturo made some really good points that I've strongly considered and he could

be right.

I tend to get wound up when someone runs down the accomplishments of strength Legends.

My first love was "old time strongman" history so I'm a little partial (a lot) maybe.

I'm going to dig up what I can on Mac this weekend because I think you guys will enjoy it.

I didn't much appreciate Rob implying that I haven't been around this sport much. He

probably didn't mean it that way but that's the way I took it. I believe what I've done

since my involvment (1979) in the sport has helped pave the way for people like Rob

and many other top arm wrestlers. I sacrificed a great deal in the 80's and early 90's

for the sport of AW. I donated money to AAA, WPAA, etc. and most of all gave thousands of

hours to helping others get involved in the sport and even training them and giving them

tools to work with. I'm not patting myself on the back, I just want people to understand why I

took offense to what Rob said.

Hope this clears things up.

Also, after calming down and thinking a bit, in reality Mac probably couoldn't touch any

of the Top guys today, including Rob Vigeant. I have no ego problem and don't mind admitting when I could be wrong. Hey Rob, no hard feelings my friend.

Mighty Joe

[mithras]

Joe, i'd be really interested in any stuff you'd like to share with us re Mac Batchelor, as I've not been able to find out much about him.

[Robert Bishop]

Who has ever beaten John Brzenk in a 198 lbs. weight class? I know Jason Remer has and I believe Todd Hutchins has too. Is there anybody else? I'm just wondering. When Todd Hutchins beat John did he just win 1 match and John won the tournament or did Todd win the tournament as well?

i heard that John has won first every event he has pulled at this weight for the last twenty years sinse Johnny Walker beat him but i'm not sure if that accurate or not. From all the arm tv videos i've seen i would go John 1st Cleve 2nd IMO

[monkeypaws]

WHOA JOE!! I didn't knock you at all, I meant dig deep in the sport ( meaning Batchelor ) and you will lose...........fact..................not your time or involvement in the sport Joe!

Fact is like alot of people drawn to armwrestling I NEVER lost after age 15....to anyone....I was annhiliating everyone I pulled......this is why I sought out tournaments, because I was convinced I was the best.

IMO the very best from even 30 years ago would get whooped.

Think, sport specific training has evolved, knowledge is wide spread, way more people are aware and involved.

Even at "low level " tournaments you see bonafied badass armwrestlers who train for being a better AWer only.

My bad.........Batcheler was the best by far.......nobody was as strong................this would be the only case that any sport hasn't evolved in 50 years.

Ever watch the olympics ? or old school foot ball ? people get bigger and stronger year after year.

Hey Joe I know some about old time strong man too.........ever hear of the strongman show that features RESISTA ? ya know the lady who changes her weight so she makes her weight 878 and some dude pretends to not be able to pick up this 100lb girl and whatever hercules of the time maybe batcheler......comes out and picks her up.......WOW.

The inch has even to be proven to be cheated.

Now if you don't think that alot of accounts of old time strongman are fake and phonied than you are sadly mistaken, and especially after 50 years you think the story hasn't gradually been exaggerated year after year ??? please.

Voevoda was Big, genetically gifted, had access to the best coaches, equipment, techniques and "supplements".........yeah....I have to agree that Batcheler would "swat him"................................LOL

Being a fan is one thing........but getting with reality is another......................I used to honestly believe that my dad had the biggest muscles in the world....................He was 180.......he was in great shape but do I need to say more than him being 180 to know that he wasn't as big as arnold..............or even comparable................................don't try to tell me that.

[monkeypaws]

And you are so quick to get defensive over this.

How do you get defensive over hearsay ?

You know what I think is disrespectful ? the fact that you have the audacity to say a non proven guy from 50 years ago would "swat" the PROVEN bests of all time.................what a slap in the face to thier training, time, and proven legacy in the sport.

You wanna know who is the real BEST, Sampson.........ya know the strongman from the bible..............the one with the hair.................he would have "swatted" Mac Batchelor like nothing...................What? can you blame me, the bible is pretty credible.

I went to a tournament in MA for a memorial of a man that was undefeated his whole life by every account............seems to be a trend

[mightyjoe]

Rob, there's no hard feelings man.

I thought I cleared this up in my last post.

I took you wrong, that's all. I even admitted I

was probably wrong after thinking things out

and considering Aturo's excellent post.

Please re-read the posts.

I apologize if I've offended you my friend.

BTW. I have another "grip toy" I think you'd like

that would go hand and hand with the block I sent you.

I have no use for 2 of these.

Interested?

Mighty Joe

[lifesnotfair]

Thanks for the kind words Mighty Joe!

I could see why so many people would do the math and come to these erroneous conclusions. You take a huge guy, with HUGE overall strength, big and strong hands, competing in powerlifting or strongman, weighing 300+, and may even be popular for having a strong grip..... and you see that the best AW ever is usually near 200 pounds, you say "I bet this guy can smoke him".. but it's miles off. I've heard plenty of stories of Strongman competitors (possibly not the very best, but still, competitive strongmen, even amateur, are hellishly big and strong) losing to lightweihgt armwrestlers. It sounds ilogical, but from what I have read others saying, it appears to be the way it is.

It feels a bit weird to be telling you this since I'm not involved in the least in armwrestling, but I guess nowdays with the internet, you can get a lot of information. I try not to repeat stuff unless I've read it from a credible source though, not something like a random Youtube comment or anything.

[fightertrainer]

Joe, all I can say is it takes a real man to admit his "mistakes" Or to admit it any way in way of peacfull warrior. i see no harm done whatsoever. Thank for your insight knowledge.

[mightyjoe]

Thanks Arturo and Fightertrainer!

I appreciate that.

Your friend,

Mighty Joe

[James Retarides]

Bob would probably have to ask John, but I had always heard that John Walker and Dave Patton both had winning records over John. I heard the same thing about Dave Patton over Gary Goodridge. But you have to take into account the point of his development. By all accounts John became nearly immortal in the mid to late 90s.

As for Mac, I have hear his story a few times. Very impressive, but technique in this sport has come a long way since his day. Not discounting Mac at all, but there will always be argument when you are comparing people or even teams (in other sports) from different eras.

[Magnus]

Wow, this is a tight one

[mightyjoe]

Bob would probably have to ask John, but I had always heard that John Walker and Dave Patton both had winning records over John. I heard the same thing about Dave Patton over Gary Goodridge. But you have to take into account the point of his development. By all accounts John became nearly immortal in the mid to late 90s.

As for Mac, I have hear his story a few times. Very impressive, but technique in this sport has come a long way since his day. Not discounting Mac at all, but there will always be argument when you are comparing people or even teams (in other sports) from different eras.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in another thread that got closed.

Mac could probably be beat today by numerous pullers because of numerous factors,

but in his time he was untouchable. To complicate matters, in this day of high tech you

can't convince anyone of anything without video proof. In Mac's era there was no such

technology. Huge difference by todays standards. What you have to watch for now is people

faking feats (yes, even though being video taped) and manipulating photos. Anyone doubting this

is fooling only themselves.

Mighty Joe

[lifesnotfair]

On page two of this thread, you said this, Mighty Joe:

In my opinion, I don't believe Brzenk or Vovoda could touch Mac in his prime and

Mac being taught proper technique. In old school arm wrestling before Steve Stanaway

come up with the top roll, Mac would swat down both Brzenk and Vovoda like flies.

Good to know that two pages later you now think that "numerous pullers" would beat him.

[mightyjoe]

On page two of this thread, you said this, Mighty Joe:

In my opinion, I don't believe Brzenk or Vovoda could touch Mac in his prime and

Mac being taught proper technique. In old school arm wrestling before Steve Stanaway

come up with the top roll, Mac would swat down both Brzenk and Vovoda like flies.

Good to know that two pages later you now think that "numerous pullers" would beat him.

Let me see if this makes sense.

IF we could go back in time BEFORE technique, drugs, etc. and Brzenk and Vovoda

was alive during Mac's era, strength versus strength, old style arm wrestling, I honestly

believe Mac would win easily.

Now, before you think I'm contradicting myself, let's FAST FORWARD to present and Mac

could be brought back alive only knowing what he knew in his PAST, YES, there's numerous pullers

who would destroy him, including certain lightweights.

If this doesn't make sense then I guess I can't explain it well enough for anyone to understand.

Like I've said numerous times, context people, CONTEXT.

Mighty Joe

[lifesnotfair]

Just wanted things to be clear.

[James Retarides]

Just wanted things to be clear.

There are a few men that claim to have a winning record over John, but none of them have had John's longevity. Johnny Walker and George Givens also were supposed to have had a winning record against John. In terms of active armwrestlers I think Devon and Tim Bresnan are the only that do. But the vast array of armwrestlers and the way that John has been able to beat so many different styles over the years is what makes him (in my opinion) hands down, the best.

For very similar reasons, if we were to discuss the second best right-handed armwrestler ever, I would give that distinction to Ron Bath.

[G-Man]

Mac would swat down both Brzenk and Vovoda like flies.

I bet you didn't know that about Steve Stanaway, uh? I've been around a while my

friend.

I though Moe Baker invented the toproll?

I find the notion of anyone “swatting down Brzenk and Voevoda like flies” amusing.

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-...092005_6704.jpg

Edited December 30, 2008 by G-Man

[Autolupus]

Wow, this was my first year in grip and I can't really decide. 2008 was a great year!

For grip:

MM1, and I did close the MM2

Blob50

170lb+ pound grippers

60lb hub lift with a plate

2hp 185lb's

Weight lifting:

320lb bench!

Even though she's not there " Mary Poppins" cos o' the magic et al!

[Paul Knight]

Wow, this was my first year in grip and I can't really decide. 2008 was a great year!

For grip:

MM1, and I did close the MM2

Blob50

170lb+ pound grippers

60lb hub lift with a plate

2hp 185lb's

Weight lifting:

320lb bench!

Even though she's not there " Mary Poppins" cos o' the magic et al!

you crack me up Mike

I haven't read this entire thread, bur I watched Gary Goodridge's video (beginning of thread) and is that the same Gary as the MMA fighter? looks just like him! and @ 2:08 in the video did he punch that guy? and who was that guy - kinda looked like brzenk