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Fact And Fiction About Captains Of Crush ® Hand Grippers


coreylan

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It's probably been posted on here before and most of you guys have probably read this, but it was the first time for me and I find it a little disturbing.

http://www.captainsofcrushgrippers.com/iro...ripperfact.html

This article certainly does not meet the standards of writing quality I would expect from someone who holds a Ph.D., regardless of his field of study. I am surprised he allowed this tripe to be posted on his website. It reads more like an evangelical sermon or a politician's mudslinging than anything remotely intellectual. I was thinking about buying some COCs (I currently use beefbuilders) but I don't think I will be supporting a company that publishes materials expressing this mindset. I have no idea what ax he's grinding at the bottom of the page under "CoC Variability" (I'm sure many of you do) but I do know that it has no place on a company's website in the public domain.

I guess I don't understand. The same positions may be clearly expressed without the snarky tone and thinly veiled insults levied against a broad subset of grip enthusiasts. Why should I support this company? Why should anyone support this company? Even if you agree with what the man is saying, I find it difficult to believe you support the delivery and if you do, chances are you aren't all that amicable to begin with.

Enlighten the rookie with 7 posts please. Much of this stuff is downright asinine. Not once have I (or anyone else, for that matter) heard someone pick up a gripper, squeeze it and say "It's a 1.7582..." The semantical babble about "calibration" is only slightly more plausible. And so on and so forth with the hyperbole and false dichotomies about hand size and such...

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  • gaster

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MalachiMcMullen

Haha, it's a very ironic twist to grip that the man who helped to start this whole gripper movement and eventual involvement in grip is so at odds with the guys who actually train on his equipment. Think of it this way, buy some of his grippers(they are the gold standard after all) and close them with a parallel set or deeper and BAM! A punch to his face if you prefer to think of it that way. I'd still gladly buy from Ironmind and I still do.

The bottom line is, Strossen is NOT a grip guy. He's looking at grippers from a selling and certification standpoint. I don't think you'll find too many guys on here who have TNS'd #3's and up who didn't train quite a lot of MMS and lower closes. Strossen equated a parallel set close to a quarter squat when in fact, the opposite is the case. He spoke of avoiding the toughest part of the gripper close, the sweep. Well, torsion springs get tougher as the handles close in on eachother. So doing a parallel set close actually cuts right to the most difficult part of the gripper close.

He's not a bad guy, he just doesn't fully understand what it is that goes on in the Gripworld.

Oh yeah, it used to be that grippers were calibrated by the big closers like Edgin or Bussi. They just closed them and guessed. Strossen is probably refering to that at first. He also must not realize that the RGC method uses averages as the standard. So yes, we do compare other grippers to an accepted standard #.

Edited by MalachiMcMullen
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sineparixmace

I could tear that article up in so many different ways, but I'm gonna let the good gripper guys have fun with it. I've lost so much respect for IM in the past month

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vikingsrule92

Strossen is flat out ignorant. Please, I BEG of you, as a newbie to the grip community DON'T Listen to Strossen!!! You're our future so don't screw it up by listening to him. He is only in it for the business end of the deal, which ironically enough this bad talk about GB is killing his business. Somehow down the road he grew to hate GB and that's why he calls us out in every one of his articles he can find space to. Oh well, just remember, if he says it, do the opposite then get advice from people who know what they're talking about and will give you the real truth, guys here.

Josh, am I a real gripper guy?!?!?! YAY I get to tear in to it!!!! This should be an interesting thread, as long as it doesn't get to out of hand.

Edited by vikingsrule92
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MalachiMcMullen
Strossen is flat out ignorant. Please, I BEG of you, as a newbie to the grip community DON'T Listen to Strossen!!! You're our future so don't screw it up by listening to him. He is only in it for the business end of the deal, which ironically enough this bad talk about GB is killing his business. Somehow down the road he grew to hate GB and that's why he calls us out in every one of his articles he can find space too. Weird how he can fit hateful thoughts in his bloated, egotistical, self incessed mind, I don't know how he manages it.
This should be an interesting thread, as long as it doesn't get to out of hand.

You mean by personally attacking anyone :rolleyes:laugh

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Chris Mathison
You mean by personally attacking anyone :rolleyes:laugh

rep

Edited by Chris Mathison
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sineparixmace
Strossen is flat out ignorant. Please, I BEG of you, as a newbie to the grip community DON'T Listen to Strossen!!! You're our future so don't screw it up by listening to him. He is only in it for the business end of the deal, which ironically enough this bad talk about GB is killing his business. Somehow down the road he grew to hate GB and that's why he calls us out in every one of his articles he can find space too. Weird how he can fit hateful thoughts in his bloated, egotistical, self incessed mind, I don't know how he manages it. Oh well, just remember, if he says it, do the opposite then get advice from people who know what they're talking about and will give you the real truth, guys here.

Josh, am I a real gripper guy?!?!?! YAY I get to tear in to it!!!! This should be an interesting thread, as long as it doesn't get to out of hand.

:laugh Yea Derek your a real gripper guy

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vikingsrule92
Strossen is flat out ignorant. Please, I BEG of you, as a newbie to the grip community DON'T Listen to Strossen!!! You're our future so don't screw it up by listening to him. He is only in it for the business end of the deal, which ironically enough this bad talk about GB is killing his business. Somehow down the road he grew to hate GB and that's why he calls us out in every one of his articles he can find space to.
This should be an interesting thread, as long as it doesn't get to out of hand.

You mean by personally attacking anyone :rolleyes:laugh

Zach, you should know by now that I'd be the one to get it rolling :laugh WHat? WOuld it not happen if I didn't start it? I barely said anything that hasn't been said a thousand times before. There I took out the bad part so I don't risk getting banned, I'm aready on the edge better not to cross it.

Edited by vikingsrule92
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Its stuff like that, that is pushing me to make my own grippers.

- Aaron

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Sybersnott
This article certainly does not meet the standards of writing quality I would expect from someone who holds a Ph.D., regardless of his field of study. I am surprised he allowed this tripe to be posted on his website. It reads more like an evangelical sermon or a politician's mudslinging than anything remotely intellectual.

I guess I don't understand. The same positions may be clearly expressed without the snarky tone and thinly veiled insults levied against a broad subset of grip enthusiasts. Why should I support this company? Why should anyone support this company? Even if you agree with what the man is saying, I find it difficult to believe you support the delivery and if you do, chances are you aren't all that amicable to begin with.

Wow, yeah... that's a new one for me as well. :blink

I don't know how to take all of that, and I read everything on that page.

I myself had an experience years ago when John Szymanski was calibrating grippers for PDA. I sent him two grippers that I ordered from IronMind. They were two completely untouched #3's and when they came back they calibrated VASTLY different from each other, even though they were both ordered at the exact same time!

We here on the GB buy and use the grippers. And I'll go ahead and say it right now, I disagree with most if not all of the content on that page. That's not to say that he CAN'T say what he's saying - he can and this is still America the last time I checked. I think Strossen should get off his high horse and get in touch with the customers of his company and HE'S NOT DOING THAT. He's drawing his own conclusions about what people tell him instead of him investigating this stuff for himself.

I could say more, but I've said enough. Dr. Strossen has my phone number and can call me anytime he wants to and we could talk about it; he has before.

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Sybersnott
Its stuff like that, that is pushing me to make my own grippers.

Hey! :angry: Strossen isn't gonna like this... someone who decides to make their own grippers!!! What is this world coming to??? :happy

Side note: Um, yeah Aaron - if you make 'em, put me down for an order! I can always find a place for more grippers! :D

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Its stuff like that, that is pushing me to make my own grippers.

Hey! :angry: Strossen isn't gonna like this... someone who decides to make their own grippers!!! What is this world coming to??? :happy

Side note: Um, yeah Aaron - if you make 'em, put me down for an order! I can always find a place for more grippers! :D

:D You bet. Doing R&D work now. already made a few decent springs. Will Prolly be awhile though.

- Aaron

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Chris Mathison
Its stuff like that, that is pushing me to make my own grippers.

Hey! :angry: Strossen isn't gonna like this... someone who decides to make their own grippers!!! What is this world coming to??? :happy

Side note: Um, yeah Aaron - if you make 'em, put me down for an order! I can always find a place for more grippers! :D

:D You bet. Doing R&D work now. already made a few decent springs. Will Prolly be awhile though.

- Aaron

Do they come with a guarantee we can close the big ones like you?

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Matt Brouse

I've never seen that page before. I didn't read all of it but quite a few sections. I did not read any of the replies in this post. But...

The greatest misconception about grippers:

That they or anything talked about on that page...matter.

Just. Get. Strong.

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Ironmind will always sell gear...dont have to like the guy...been to a few gyms where the owner was an assh%le but he still got my money,doesnt mean the comments dont piss me off. If we dont know about grippers ( collectively) who would?

Edited by verdigriz
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The most funny thing about this page IMO is that Randall doesn't like deep / parallel sets with grippers but he does accept them for certification.

After all, be honest, how many of the 5 people certified on the #4 are able to close it with a CCS set or wider? Maybe 1-2 max.

The same with the #3 cert. How many from pre CCS-cert are / were able to close the #3 CCS? A lot less I'm sure ;)

We at least recognize that there's a difference between TNS, CCS and MMS and treat them as such. Randall just changed the certification without keeping this in mind.

I had this discussion with him about bending as well, he feels that bending has changed into more an upper body feat then a hand / wrist strength feat.

I've tried to explain him that that's a good thing since it resulted in 3 different major techniques which can be tested separately.

Unfortunately he didn't respond anymore to my last email, but for me that's enough proof that he doesn't fully agree with his way either ;)

Here's the last email I sent him on the 7th of August:

Dear Randall,

I understand what you mean but I don't think that's a bad thing.

It's similar to the stones of strength. Back when they were first

introduced in a contest, the 250lbs stones were heavy already since no one

knew how to handle those awkward weights.

Then people started training on them and learning techniques on how to

better handle the stones and the maximum weight lifted went up pretty

fast.

With bending a similar thing happened. Back in the time when John

Brookfield bent his red nail hardly anyone knew about this feat of

strength.

Then people started to experiment and train on bending nails and people

noticed that a sort of folding technique (Double Overhand) was the most

natural and the strongest technique to bend nails. Eventually 3 major

unbraced bending techniques were born.

I agree that Double Overhand Bending is not really a test of lowerarm /

wrist strength, but more of a full body test.

This also means more power and therefore thicker steel being bend.

With Double Underhand and Reverse bending it's a different story, both are

definitely a test of wrist and grip strength and both are easily

recognized and tested.

What you see now is that different certifications exist for the different

styles and in a contest usually only one of the styles is permitted,

therefore an overall grip and wrist strength is still required, it's just

used in different techniques.

The first time I bent a red nail was 3 months after I started bending, in

the double overhand style of course.

It took me approximately 6 months of training before I was able to bend

them using the reverse and double underhand techniques.

In your case I would have chosen to split up the certification in those 3

styles, this way everyone would have known what style was used for bending

the nail and therefore everyone would be able to recognize the feat for

what it's worth.

The same also applies to the gripper certification. 5 people have closed

the #4 under certified conditions yet no one has certified after you've

changed the rules to the credit card set.

Anyone not aware of the history of the certification would assume that

those 5 people have used a credit card set as well while perhaps only 1 or

2 people were actually able to do so.

Of course a credit card set on a #4 is an amazing accomplishment, but so

is a 1" set on it, it's just a slightly different accomplishment.

I feel the same with the red nail. It's a great accomplishment regardless

of the style used, but reverse and double underhand are definitely top

feats!

I know you're "famous" for your opinion that steel bending should be a

wrist / underarm feat, but I hope that might change some day since

recognizing different techniques in my opinion really increases the value

of the sport.

After all the feat was originally intended as a show feat and non-benders

really don't notice any difference in style used, they just see the

difference in thickness of steel!

With kind regards,

Mark Vogels

Edited by White Scorpion
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Pancake Sprawl

hahaha, i'm a newb to this, but when i close the #4 and get cert'd and they do the little interview deal they do, and ask me "how did you train to attain this strength?" i'm going to simply reply, "the gripboard helped TONS" hahaha. i bet he wouldn't like that.

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That article is a little hurtful. CoC grippers are my favorite and I'll say so to anyone who asks...but then the training methods I've gotten from more experienced guys here are belittled and there are what sound like ignorant jibes all over the place. Is Dr. Strossen actually denying there is variation in his grippers? Come on! I may be dumb, but when I say I have a hard #2 it's not because I banged out several reps on one and was too tired to close my own (Oh, it rates exactly 2.29067 based on the Matt Guesstimater Scale :rolleyes). I certainly don't see how he should take attempts at calibrating grippers as a slight. If anything, trying to have a wide variety of RGC poundages should help his sales.

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naturalstrength

Acronyms for Science degrees:

B.S. (Bull S**T)

M.S. (More S**T)

Ph.D (Piled High and Deep)

Don't believe everything that science or a scientist says. They are often times more wrong than right. Just because the article was written by a Ph.D, it doesn't make it gospel either ;)

What's Strossens Ph.D in anyway?

Edited by naturalstrength
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Wow where does one even start with this new Ironmind page. Yes, a whois shows Ironmind owns this domain.

This part is upsetting, (along with a bunch of others):

"Good numbers, bad numbers: measuring the spread

Every now and then, we have some customers who measure the spread of their new Captains of Crush Hand Grippers (sometimes through the plastic packaging) and then panic if they think it is off by .001 inch—something that might make a machinist suggest a better use for dial calipers. This is the type of thing that gives us pause, especially when the same person says that a credit card is less than 2 inches wide or maybe that it's 2-1/4 inches—it's actually 2-1/8 inches, and anyone armed with even a child's ruler should be able to come up with that number.

The point here is to, first, make sure you know what you are measuring if you feel the need to do so—and second, try not to magnify insignificant differences from one gripper to the next. "

Doesn't Randy realize some of his #3 grippers have had a 2 3/4" spread and some have had 3 1/4" spread?

A half inch from one gripper to another that are supposed to be rated the same is a big deal.

He could use his proverbial child's ruler to measure that. No dial caliper needed.

Also the personal attack on Wannagrip was uncalled for:

"Kinney Training Adapted

This is the unabbreviated title of an e-book purportedly based on Joe Kinney's training. In fact, Joe Kinney had no role in this book and has a rather low opinion of both its author and the advice in it."

It's obvious that he reads this board so maybe with enough replies he could learn something for once. Then again, for him to say what he did he clearly hasn't learned much about grippers so far. It's probably a waste of time to go on.

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I am too narcissistic to stop buying Coc grippers made from a company with writing prejudice. I am too narcissistic to cease eating mercurized tuna. I am too narcissistic to keep from buying stuff at Wal-mart (you may or may not know that they underpay their employees). I am too narcissistic to avoid drinking water from Nalgene bottles... and the list goes on. I think it to be impossible to draw a line or to avoid contact with products, people and ideas because this world has belligerence everywhere. I for one am selfish, yet people still interact with me (just not that many). By the way, there are a lot of employees at Ironmind (I am guessing) that are nice, polite and good-hearted. Buy a Coc gripper with them in mind.

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