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3.5 Credit Card Set....done!


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We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.
Shhh! ;)
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.
Jedd, with the greatest respect, I think that's, by now, a moot point, I think we could wake Tex up at 3a.m. hand him a brand new #3 and he'd have more trouble opening the pack than certing on it! MAYBE it shouldn't have been a cert, but if it wasn't he'd've re-certed that lunchtime whilst eating ribs and admiring the view! So we should all accept it. This close is a first, and therefore a benchmark; it should be above reproach.
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PowerHouse
We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.
Shhh! ;)
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.
Jedd, with the greatest respect, I think that's, by now, a moot point, I think we could wake Tex up at 3a.m. hand him a brand new #3 and he'd have more trouble opening the pack than certing on it! MAYBE it shouldn't have been a cert, but if it wasn't he'd've re-certed that lunchtime whilst eating ribs and admiring the view! So we should all accept it. This close is a first, and therefore a benchmark; it should be above reproach.

Lol. I dont understand your point of view at all. Just because someone is strong enough to do something then they dont need to play by the same rules as everyone else? And since when does being the first to do something means you dont have to follow the rules? The rules CLEARLY state that YOUR non gripping hand must place the card inbetween the handles, it was not done that way period.

This all seems very clear to me. I honestly cant even see the other side of this arguement.

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From what I have read by now the rules have to change if this kind of certification process wants to hold any kind of respect in the future.

The rules have to be equal. Meaning that there has to be equal, standard certification rules not depending on the nationality or personality of the person willing to certify or his/her relationship with the judge or the company. If the rules are and won't be equal there is no single reason I wish ever to be certified on any Ironmind "feats" list. Fame is great but for some reason I prefer honour. At least on this matter.

Edited by imodnar_
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climber511
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.

But, this has been a while ago now. Does anyone that was there recall if I held the card or if he did that day???

Jedd - wasn't there video of this one - I'm almost sure there was somewhere?

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mobsterone

I watched two videos of him today. Sorinex has a youtube account. I'm sure his are on there.

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Jedd Johnson
We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.
Shhh! ;)
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.
Jedd, with the greatest respect, I think that's, by now, a moot point, I think we could wake Tex up at 3a.m. hand him a brand new #3 and he'd have more trouble opening the pack than certing on it! MAYBE it shouldn't have been a cert, but if it wasn't he'd've re-certed that lunchtime whilst eating ribs and admiring the view! So we should all accept it. This close is a first, and therefore a benchmark; it should be above reproach.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:

I am not sure that Dr. Strossen cares if the athlete holds the card or if someone else holds the card. I think he just cares that a card gets put between the handles. He's written about it several times and I don't recall him recently writing the part about the athlete needing to place the card himself.

Climber, I do not think we got that cert on video...but again, I am not 100% sure.

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climber511
We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.
Shhh! ;)
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.
Jedd, with the greatest respect, I think that's, by now, a moot point, I think we could wake Tex up at 3a.m. hand him a brand new #3 and he'd have more trouble opening the pack than certing on it! MAYBE it shouldn't have been a cert, but if it wasn't he'd've re-certed that lunchtime whilst eating ribs and admiring the view! So we should all accept it. This close is a first, and therefore a benchmark; it should be above reproach.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:

I am not sure that Dr. Strossen cares if the athlete holds the card or if someone else holds the card. I think he just cares that a card gets put between the handles. He's written about it several times and I don't recall him recently writing the part about the athlete needing to place the card himself.

Climber, I do not think we got that cert on video...but again, I am not 100% sure.

Jedd - perhaps a "senior" moment on my part but I do think there is video somewhere of it - I think - kinda - sorta - maybe :blush

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PowerHouse
We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.
Shhh! ;)
I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.
Jedd, with the greatest respect, I think that's, by now, a moot point, I think we could wake Tex up at 3a.m. hand him a brand new #3 and he'd have more trouble opening the pack than certing on it! MAYBE it shouldn't have been a cert, but if it wasn't he'd've re-certed that lunchtime whilst eating ribs and admiring the view! So we should all accept it. This close is a first, and therefore a benchmark; it should be above reproach.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:

I am not sure that Dr. Strossen cares if the athlete holds the card or if someone else holds the card. I think he just cares that a card gets put between the handles. He's written about it several times and I don't recall him recently writing the part about the athlete needing to place the card himself.

Climber, I do not think we got that cert on video...but again, I am not 100% sure.

Jedd - perhaps a "senior" moment on my part but I do think there is video somewhere of it - I think - kinda - sorta - maybe :blush

There was a picture of him closing it. Jedd and I belive Sorin was in it aswell. Maybe thats what your thinking of.

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Hubgeezer
I am not sure that Dr. Strossen cares if the athlete holds the card or if someone else holds the card. I think he just cares that a card gets put between the handles. He's written about it several times and I don't recall him recently writing the part about the athlete needing to place the card himself.

That was what I was trying to say earlier. BUT, the official rules say "his non gripping hand". That's what is causing all the cluck cluck clucking. :blink

I went back to the IronMind News of June 2006, Jedd, and saw that you were Tex's #3 witness/judge. That makes you an important part of history, especially when Tex was the first official out-the-package Number 3 closer. Yep, it was Tex.

If this were an Olympic sport, or a NFL game, regardless of what has been written here, it would be over. In something like this, a private company (IronMind Enterprises, Inc, with a (presumably) sole owner), it is a dictatorship. It's over. Yes, the instructions were inconsistent with the rules as posted on the website. Nothing can change what happened. It's over.

Based on all the things I have read here, the only person who I feel badly about is Steve Gardener. Why? Because he could have been the first, he wanted to do it now, contacted RS right away, and clearly showed everyone here that he could close a 3.5 gripper wider than a credit card. As for the rest of us, it is unfortunate that we have put this kind of passion into this minutiae.

I know an accountant in his 80s, who 40 years ago, measured the letters on the door of an accountant now in his 70s, and found that they were one-half inch larger than allowed by law. He reported the younger man to the California State Board of Accountancy and the younger man had to have the company name on the door changed to the smaller letters. This is the path that we seem to be headed. Only there is no State Board to report to. It's over. Gardener can handle it. Is it 100% fair? No. So what? It's not a democracy, it's not a government, it's not an official sport. It is a private company's certification process.

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Sorry if I got a bit carried away on the earlier posts but anyway I still think these kind of rules should be equal for everyone.

Edited by imodnar_
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mobsterone
I am not sure that Dr. Strossen cares if the athlete holds the card or if someone else holds the card. I think he just cares that a card gets put between the handles. He's written about it several times and I don't recall him recently writing the part about the athlete needing to place the card himself.

That was what I was trying to say earlier. BUT, the official rules say "his non gripping hand". That's what is causing all the cluck cluck clucking. :blink

I went back to the IronMind News of June 2006, Jedd, and saw that you were Tex's #3 witness/judge. That makes you an important part of history, especially when Tex was the first official out-the-package Number 3 closer. Yep, it was Tex.

If this were an Olympic sport, or a NFL game, regardless of what has been written here, it would be over. In something like this, a private company (IronMind Enterprises, Inc, with a (presumably) sole owner), it is a dictatorship. It's over. Yes, the instructions were inconsistent with the rules as posted on the website. Nothing can change what happened. It's over.

Based on all the things I have read here, the only person who I feel badly about is Steve Gardener. Why? Because he could have been the first, he wanted to do it now, contacted RS right away, and clearly showed everyone here that he could close a 3.5 gripper wider than a credit card. As for the rest of us, it is unfortunate that we have put this kind of passion into this minutiae.

I know an accountant in his 80s, who 40 years ago, measured the letters on the door of an accountant now in his 70s, and found that they were one-half inch larger than allowed by law. He reported the younger man to the California State Board of Accountancy and the younger man had to have the company name on the door changed to the smaller letters. This is the path that we seem to be headed. Only there is no State Board to report to. It's over. Gardener can handle it. Is it 100% fair? No. So what? It's not a democracy, it's not a government, it's not an official sport. It is a private company's certification process.

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Alawadhi

If Tex could do it that way then everyone who will attempt the #3.5 cert should also do it that way.

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mobsterone

Damned Firefox... anyway I was gonna say earlier that having made a proper balls up of Sam's (CoC 3) MM cert I know only too well the folly of not reading the rules. I got my ass slapped for that one good n proper.

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I've not got into the grippers hard YET, but this is an interesting situation.

Several questions I'd like to ask and I mean no offense to anyone whatsoever. I've read through old posts and see that people's opinions by and large are that Ironmind changes rules too often and slams the gripboard along with various other complaints. So my question is, why put so much stock in their certs? All this would seem to feed the popularity of a company / guy who it would seem most of the gripboard isn't too fond of.

I'm nowhere close to certing on a #3 gripper but I can bend a red nail fairly easy and I'm almost sure I could do it in ironmind pads as well, but it's nowhere on my list of priorities to do so. John Beatty has went through so much more trouble to give people what they want so his certs are infinately more important to me. Same situation for me as the grippers. Warren Tetting seems so really give people what they want and Ironmind has always just said if you want something besides what we have you must be doing something wrong. They only release the .5 grippers WAY after the fact.

Heck just start a gripboard certification process on the various ironmind grippers as well and proclaim that it's the REAL certification that really means the most. Make it a credit card cert or no set for that matter if that is what makes Ironmind's cert such a big deal. No, on second thought, don't ever mention credit card again because that only lends legitimacy to their invention once again. Sounds to me like Warren Tetting's cert are the strictest and all-around planned out of any company's. Isn't he the one who makes you no set the gripper that's built according to your hand size?

Also, if the majority feel this way we should stop glamorizing (sp?) the #4 gripper so much and start asking when will the first person close a grand elite or RB365.

I'm not necessarily saying I feel that way but after reading so many posts that are negative about ironmind - and I admit they do seem to aim digs at the gripboard - why even play into their popularity game?

I know their cert is their if I want to try it, same with Warren's same with FBBC, same with the Mast Monster.

As for this situation specifically, first I have the upmost respect for Richard Sorin and I'm firmly convinced that he intended to do no wrong in this or Tex for that matter. However, as you guys are posting the rules per Ironmind, I don't see how it can be argued that they were followed and since Ironmind prides themselves on being the only true cert and have raised their feathers like a peacock on more than one occasion, I'd say we do need to be that nit-picky with them since they seem to warrent it.

I'd say in all honesty though you better print off or save the page with the rules on it because I'd bet they just change under the cover of dark. No chance in a million years that Richard or Tex's certs will be thrown out. Too much history there and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Of course the opposite could happen too and there could be a really nasty release on ironmind that really slams the gripboard in all but name. I bet it just subtly changes though with no explanation.

Also, I think Richard's reply was 100% class-act. He could have just disappeared from the board until it blew over but he didn't. He's been the only one that I know of who "risked" he original cert by attempting to cert under the new harder rules. Plus, he stated his intentions ahead of time and I have no doubt he could cert by holding the card himself. Same with Tex on that one.

Just my perspective, and best of luck to all in this!

Tim

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So the rules that are plainly printed on Ironmind's web site are NOT necessarily the rules that are used to certify?

This is an injustice to those who followed the supposedly "official rules".

"Shark Jump and Splash"

Exactly, I believe it even says on their website, something to the effect of "when you're ready to cert read the official rules here". Another example of Ironmind not enforcing the rules it already has and just creating new ones. I'm awaiting the "official" response with baited breath. I'm sure we'll be treated to another long-winded rant, heavy on buzzwords and phrases like " the spirit of the challenge", "keeper of the flame", "keyboard warriors", and "honor and integrity".

Also, I'm not sure what was meant by his 5 "trials" but if that means that Tex missed it 5 times, it's not an forgone conclusion that he would have shut it if he had to insert the card himself. Inserting the card yourself IS harder.

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Sybersnott
Jedd - perhaps a "senior" moment on my part but I do think there is video somewhere of it - I think - kinda - sorta - maybe :blush

Chris,

There IS a video of it; I was there along with a bunch of other people watching that cert; Strossen had his camera going although I can't remember who was shooting video on it. Jedd stuck his face into watching the handles touch - this moment was forever emblazened into the pages of the IM catalog! :D

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StalwartSentinel
I've not got into the grippers hard YET, but this is an interesting situation.

Several questions I'd like to ask and I mean no offense to anyone whatsoever. I've read through old posts and see that people's opinions by and large are that Ironmind changes rules too often and slams the gripboard along with various other complaints. So my question is, why put so much stock in their certs? All this would seem to feed the popularity of a company / guy who it would seem most of the gripboard isn't too fond of.

I'm nowhere close to certing on a #3 gripper but I can bend a red nail fairly easy and I'm almost sure I could do it in ironmind pads as well, but it's nowhere on my list of priorities to do so. John Beatty has went through so much more trouble to give people what they want so his certs are infinately more important to me. Same situation for me as the grippers. Warren Tetting seems so really give people what they want and Ironmind has always just said if you want something besides what we have you must be doing something wrong. They only release the .5 grippers WAY after the fact.

Heck just start a gripboard certification process on the various ironmind grippers as well and proclaim that it's the REAL certification that really means the most. Make it a credit card cert or no set for that matter if that is what makes Ironmind's cert such a big deal. No, on second thought, don't ever mention credit card again because that only lends legitimacy to their invention once again. Sounds to me like Warren Tetting's cert are the strictest and all-around planned out of any company's. Isn't he the one who makes you no set the gripper that's built according to your hand size?

Also, if the majority feel this way we should stop glamorizing (sp?) the #4 gripper so much and start asking when will the first person close a grand elite or RB365.

I'm not necessarily saying I feel that way but after reading so many posts that are negative about ironmind - and I admit they do seem to aim digs at the gripboard - why even play into their popularity game?

I know their cert is their if I want to try it, same with Warren's same with FBBC, same with the Mast Monster.

As for this situation specifically, first I have the upmost respect for Richard Sorin and I'm firmly convinced that he intended to do no wrong in this or Tex for that matter. However, as you guys are posting the rules per Ironmind, I don't see how it can be argued that they were followed and since Ironmind prides themselves on being the only true cert and have raised their feathers like a peacock on more than one occasion, I'd say we do need to be that nit-picky with them since they seem to warrent it.

I'd say in all honesty though you better print off or save the page with the rules on it because I'd bet they just change under the cover of dark. No chance in a million years that Richard or Tex's certs will be thrown out. Too much history there and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Of course the opposite could happen too and there could be a really nasty release on ironmind that really slams the gripboard in all but name. I bet it just subtly changes though with no explanation.

Also, I think Richard's reply was 100% class-act. He could have just disappeared from the board until it blew over but he didn't. He's been the only one that I know of who "risked" he original cert by attempting to cert under the new harder rules. Plus, he stated his intentions ahead of time and I have no doubt he could cert by holding the card himself. Same with Tex on that one.

Just my perspective, and best of luck to all in this!

Tim

Outstanding post! :rock

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I've noticed a few times on this thread that people have the opinon the Ironmind and it's directors have a dim view of the gripboard. I don't know what the foundations are for people to have this opinion so I have no ground to argue BUT If this is the case, I think the people at Ironmind would be wise to consider that the "gripboard" is not a being and is actually the gathering place of grip enthusiasts and some of the best gripsters in the world. :rock

We are the people that provide Ironmind with their annual turnover and profits, the people that strive and train our ass's off to cert on thier products. We are a gathering of people all with different opinions and if it gets to the point where people say things that Ironmind don't like then it's IRONMIND that should sit up and listen to us. NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU. :angry:

I love COC grippers, I always want to train with them and I want to cert on the #4 one day........but there are plenty of other pretty grippers tucked away in my gripper box and what do you know, they also have certifications to go for. If Ironmind don't pay respect to this board and the people that use it it's them that'll suffer in the long run.

They need to treat EVERY cert exactly the same, same rules for you, me, Mr Sorrin and Mr G W Bush.

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TKtheGreek

there shouldnt be this much argument its simple, change the rules or make him do it by the rules same with whover did the #3 using having another person do the card

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Juha Harju

Juha and Tomi from Finland

Certification

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Alright guys, heres my thoughts. (no disrespect to anyone especially mr.sorin i have great respect for him, but regardless i know my post will probably anger some people)

First off to those saying that if someone else holds the card or if you do it wouldnt matter. I ask those of you to look at this video by sorinex "the mind and the cool down" at 1:47 richard sorin talks about how you cant put a maximal amount of force when holding a credit card with the other hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8b9hBsQR7Q. i cant close big grippers or anything so by me stating my opinions i know im going to hear more comments like "you think its easy what tex done why dont you do it" and these childish responses. There is no question about tex's strength. by no means am i trying to take anything away from tex, from the videos i seen and from hearing other members attitude about him he seems like a very nice and deserving person. but what bothers me is that we all know that holding a credit card yourself is harder then letting someone else hold it. if ironmind allows someone else to hold the card for you, why didnt they state it in their rules offically before tex did his cert? the problem as others have mentioned is that in their cert rules it says

"the gripster must show the official that he has an acceptable starting position by using HIS non-gripping hand to slide the end of a credit/ATM card in between the ends of the handles"

So i ask again why didnt ironmind make it offical and change the rules before tex's cert that you could have someone else hold the card for you? It bothers me that some people who certed would have a much easier time if they knew they could have someone else hold the card for them but they didnt, it ends up looking messy.

I think Tex should still be the first person to offically close the 3.5 (a big congrats to him) but he should have a new video of him closing it with the card in his own hand. some of you might snicker at this but if everyone does it differently what is the point of the "strict" rules? I can just see it now this debate will be re hashed over and over again. A couple years later some new grip guy comes and says "hey isnt kinney's video fake because he didnt open up his hand after closing the gripper, or tex because he didnt do it properly?" these kind of stupid debates i wish we could avoid and to do that the rules should be done exactly the way they are stated.

You guys have to remeber though that ironmind is a business, they want to make money, and there is nothing wrong with that. To me the reason of this credit card rule in the first place is to many people were certifying on the number 3 then ironmind expected. It was great for them when there was only 3 people on the number 3 certifcation list. It made it seem almost impossible for anyone to do it. they could say only three people in the world has closed this gripper it had that ring to it. Versus saying oh the number three has about 170 people on it. ( much respect for those closing the three).I feel there are several reasons for this number 3.5 list

1. This will obviously increase ironmind's sales now people who buy 10x number threes 10x number 4 grippers will buy 10x 3.5 grippers as well to train on.

2. It has that ring to it as i mentioned earlier . "be the first man in the world to certify on the 3.5". "Tex became the first man in the world" which in tern will increase their sales

3. Years later, 10 years from now or even later when we are all dead. Strossen or Strossen's grandson running ironmind will probably remove the number 3 list completely from the certification on their site. and the 3.5 will be the new benchmark gripper.

This is the truth and if you guys dont like it im sorry. Once again its not meant as disprespect im just stating my feelings. I dont want to hear that ironmind made the credit card rule for uniformity and that they care about us grip guys and all that nonsence, they are a business to make money. You have a better change argueing to me that mcdonalds have salads on their menu because they care about your health.

Edited by adam baghbanbashi
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TKtheGreek

http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2629#2629

i guess they are going to overlook the part of the rule that says

"the gripster must show the official that he has an acceptable starting position by using his non-gripping hand to slide the end of a credit/ATM card in between the ends of the handles "

as long as a credit card fits between the legs

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