3.5 Credit Card Set....done!

[coombsfh]

Christ!

What a farce, he is strong as hell, he had a credit card between the handles, he did it and I am impressed as anything.

Regardless of whether he makes it onto the list, I hope the majority of people on here just appreciate it for what it is; a demonstration of phenomenal strength.

[Booyah!!!]

I can see both sides of this issue. I would say it is a bit of a mess. There is one thing that does stick out to me. In no way was Mr Sorin required to show us the Video. I appreciate him sharing this with us, he is obviously a stand up honorable man. I believe Mr Sorin and Tex met the requirement of the cert process to Mr Strossen, and the rest of us. I do not think Mr Strossen intended to put his witness on the spot or demand absolute perfection from his witnesses, but to do the best they can, and I am sure that was done. Next certs might should have a NO VIDEOS ALLOWED clause? Congrats TEX!!! Please don't kill me too bad guys

[twig]

Christ!

What a farce, he is strong as hell, he had a credit card between the handles, he did it and I am impressed as anything.

Regardless of whether he makes it onto the list, I hope the majority of people on here just appreciate it for what it is; a demonstration of phenomenal strength.

Trust me, Fred we all do. In fact, I think part of the reason we find it so frustrating is that we're gutted that it wasn't done perfectly so that there can be no question as to the legitimacy of the cert. Because there's certainly no doubt as to the strength or the integrity of the people involved.

I think it would be a good idea for the rules to be clarified as to whether someone else can insert a card.

Rules for Closing a No. 3, No. 3.5, or No. 4 Captains of Crush Gripper

The gripper must be an authentic IronMind Enterprises, Inc. Captains of Crush® Gripper.

The gripper cannot have been modified or tampered with in any way.

Chalk (magnesium oxide) may be used on the gripping hand, but rosin, tacky, etc. are specifically disallowed.

The free hand may be used to position the gripper in the gripping hand, but the starting position can be no narrower than the width of a credit/ATM card, and the gripster must show the official that he has an acceptable starting position by using his non-gripping hand to slide the end of a credit/ATM card in between the ends of the handles. Once this is done, the official will give the signal to remove the card and begin the attempt. Any contact between the non-gripping hand and the gripper as the card is being removed will invalidate the attempt, and the non-gripping hand must stay at least a foot from the gripping hand at all times during the squeeze. Similarly, nothing may be in contact with the gripping hand or the gripping arm from the elbow down (for example, the free hand is not allowed to steady the wrist of the gripping hand or hold the spring, etc.). The entire squeeze must be clearly visible to the official: the gripper cannot be closed while blocked from view and then turned and presented as already closed.

The gripper must be held with the spring facing up.

The handles must touch completely.

Seems pretty clear to me: the athlete has to do it with his non gripping hand. I think the fairest thing to do would be to get Tex back to Mr Sorin's before anyone else has a chance to cert, which would mean before the Euro's.

[Paul Knight]

I don't think Stossen thought of the witness sliding the card through while creating/writing the rules - otherwise he probably would have allow it and it would have been stated in the rules - the only reason I say that is because, I know why he created the rule in the first place: To eliminate the deep set (and prolly to slow down everyone certing on the 3 )

Flip-side: Rules are rules - nuff said

If they do make Tex re-cert, he should be able to re-cert on the same gripper, cause that would really suck if he got another brand new 3.5 and it cal'ed alot higher than the first one. That would be horse sh!t!

Can't remeber who mentioned that "it would be easier to change the rules", but I agree - this is a frivolous matter - and it would be beneficial to everyone since it seems it makes the close more managable - its not like Randy hasn't changed the rules before

Not that our votes would affect Randy's decision on the matter, but I'm going to post a "Poll" and you can vote whether or not you think the rules should be changed - lets get some feed back!

ta ta

[Autolupus]

David Horne has disallowed cert attempts where the certee did not swipe the credit card themselves.

A different cert though.

Tex is obviously strong enough to do it. Just feel he was contacted first, then the #3.5 was added!

[The Mac]

How do you all feel about using a witness who is a friend of the person trying to certify?

I don't like it. But then there are instances where there may not be anyone else "qualified" within a reasonable distance.

[mobsterone]

How do you all feel about using a witness who is a friend of the person trying to certify?

Don't like it. Regardless of their integrity (and with many it goes without saying) it should not even be open to question.

Christ!

What a farce, he is strong as hell, he had a credit card between the handles, he did it and I am impressed as anything.

Regardless of whether he makes it onto the list, I hope the majority of people on here just appreciate it for what it is; a demonstration of phenomenal strength.

As many have said we know Tex is a massively strong guy, his close on youtube looks solid as a rock etc etc. The cock-up is a rule infringement and does not demean Tex's strength in anyway.

[imodnar_]

The question here is not about that was the close good enough for us. The question is that how is his certification good enough officially and the certification of others is not.. when done in the same manner. 6 closes and someone else put the credit card there? I have heard some ridiculous stories of how strict the rules were made for us europeans. Only 2 attempts allowed and the credit card was used only by the person willing to certify. The IM certification seems like some kind of an inside joke it has been made.

Edited August 8, 2008 by imodnar_

[patrick]

No matter what the integrity of the person is he should never be a friend or training partner of the person. If so then all people should be able to let say there brother or wife or training partner be there witness to be fair. I think if someone misses a cert and has to go again it should be a new gripper again not the same one. Thats how it would be for anyone else that misses there cert and has to try again. Never know might even get an easier one the second time. Tex is plenty strong we all know that. Everyone regardless of who they are should be treated the same its just the way it is in life. I hope Tex gets it redone right for him. He deserves it. Also the credit card swipe was done to fast. Again there is no question that Tex has the strength to cert on almost any 3.5 that he gos for. Its very impressive how easy shuts the gripper.

[1stCoC]

Gentlemen,

I appreciate you candid views of the matter of Tex and my own certification. I have contacted Ironmind as to inform them as to the situation. Mr Strossen is at the Olympic Games and was in mid flight when this issue occured. His staff have forwarded the information to him for an official statement. My witness Will Millman, a carefully selected ,honorable, person was told as I was, my son, and to witnesses of other recent #3 certifications VERBATUM by Dr. Strossen.."The width of the start of a legitimate close must be the width of a credit card at the start of the close , you do not personally have to insert the card yourself although one must be used to determine the proper minimal width of the start" My judge (Mr. Millman) told me that was his(Mr. Strossen's) statement and direct instructions for certification , Mr. Strossen told me and my son as well the very same thing . I followed his instructions to the letter with other witnesses standing nearby AND as an additional courtesy had it, and my own re-Certification filmed as well. If you think for one moment I would risk my reputation on something being done in an knowingly incorrect way you really must not know or respect me for what I have tried to do for for the past 20 years in the world of grip. According to his staff, Mr.Strossen will issue a statement as to clarify his explicit interpretation of his own rules and stand on the matter. I did what I was specifically told to do by Mr. Strossen in both situations no more, no less.

Respectfully, Richard Sorin

[mobsterone]

Richard, I thank you and I am sure others will do the same. The issue then lies with Randall. If he passes on these statements then he should update his own rules to include the same. Let's see what happens.

[Paul Savage]

if we are honest this whole thing about the 3.5 has gone way over the top, is it easy? course not, but it's been done many times before, so the first guy to cert is no different than all the others who are capable / to say doing this after 6 attempts is the best gripper performance this year is simply not true, it's not even close >this is over the top, whats the point in lying about it?

as far as the rules, cant see from the video, but i thought the card was not allowed to be touching the handles before the close? you can hear it's either been bang'd into the gripper an then taken out straight away (this happens in the #3 warm up an does not appear to go between the handles), or the card is being somewhat crushed between the handles (so would be less than 2") an it pops as it's taken out - im absolutely not a nit picker, never will be, but if you're gonna create these rules, they should be the same for everyone >compare tex's 3.5 cert to teemu's cert on the #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiESnEseh3Y he has to do the card himself an they make him wait 8 seconds in the set position >whats that about??

ive heard nothing but good things about tex though / hes just closing the gripper given to him

[bencrush]

You must remember a video is not a requirement for the IM certs. The power to approve or disapprove of an attempt is really placed in the hands of the witness. An impartial witness that IM picks. It is a quite different process than the Mashmonster certs in that respect. For the MM certs the video evidence is the only thing that really matters in determining whether you closed it or not.

- Aaron

Good points Aaron. If Sorin was the witness, he is definitely not an impartial witness. If you've trained with someone, had them over to train, chatted with them, etc, then you're not impartial anymore. This gets stranger by the minute...

[bencrush]

How do you all feel about using a witness who is a friend of the person trying to certify?

I think it's great. For Mash Monster certs. Because video is really the only thing being judged. If there is any question of whether or not it was a legit close... or even that any part of the process was questionable...3 reds. Fair. Simple. Same across the board for me, or for the strongest guy on the planet. The judges don't care who you are. They care whether the handles touched and whether all the details were followed closely. If my COC cert judge had been a friend, and IF the closes had been in question, who's to say that a close friend wouldn't just tell a "white lie" and let me have it? Again, I know Tex closed the gripper. That's not my point. The details that were not followed are the point.

[boland magyar]

if we are honest this whole thing about the 3.5 has gone way over the top, is it easy? course not, but it's been done many times before, so the first guy to cert is no different than all the others who are capable / to say doing this after 6 attempts is the best gripper performance this year is simply not true, it's not even close >this is over the top, whats the point in lying about it?

as far as the rules, cant see from the video, but i thought the card was not allowed to be touching the handles before the close? you can hear it's either been bang'd into the gripper an then taken out straight away (this happens in the #3 warm up an does not appear to go between the handles), or the card is being somewhat crushed between the handles (so would be less than 2") an it pops as it's taken out - im absolutely not a nit picker, never will be, but if you're gonna create these rules, they should be the same for everyone >compare tex's 3.5 cert to teemu's cert on the #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiESnEseh3Y he has to do the card himself an they make him wait 8 seconds in the set position >whats that about??

ive heard nothing but good things about tex though / hes just closing the gripper given to him

now thats a close , the correct way

[OldGuy]

Gentlemen,

I appreciate you candid views of the matter of Tex and my own certification. I have contacted Ironmind as to inform them as to the situation. Mr Strossen is at the Olympic Games and was in mid flight when this issue occured. His staff have forwarded the information to him for an official statement. My witness Will Millman, a carefully selected ,honorable, person was told as I was, my son, and to witnesses of other recent #3 certifications VERBATUM by Dr. Strossen.."The width of the start of a legitimate close must be the width of a credit card at the start of the close , you do not personally have to insert the card yourself although one must be used to determine the proper minimal width of the start" My judge (Mr. Millman) told me that was his(Mr. Strossen's) statement and direct instructions for certification , Mr. Strossen told me and my son as well the very same thing . I followed his instructions to the letter with other witnesses standing nearby AND as an additional courtesy had it, and my own re-Certification filmed as well. If you think for one moment I would risk my reputation on something being done in an knowingly incorrect way you really must not know or respect me for what I have tried to do for for the past 20 years in the world of grip. According to his staff, Mr.Strossen will issue a statement as to clarify his explicit interpretation of his own rules and stand on the matter. I did what I was specifically told to do by Mr. Strossen in both situations no more, no less.

Respectfully, Richard Sorin

As far as your re-cert goes, your own video shows the gripper being opened by the witness. The gripper is not then handed to you, but ends up on a table with other grippers. You then after chalking up pick up a gripper from that table. Surely that is in no way following instructions to the letter? The gripper should be opened by the witness and then handed directly to the person trying to certify. For sure the gripper should not first be placed on a table with other grippers. All very sloppy and casual.

[tspinillo]

So the rules that are plainly printed on Ironmind's web site are NOT necessarily the rules that are used to certify?

This is an injustice to those who followed the supposedly "official rules".

"Shark Jump and Splash"

[twig]

Richard, I thank you and I am sure others will do the same. The issue then lies with Randall. If he passes on these statements then he should update his own rules to include the same. Let's see what happens.

Good post; I agree 100%

Mr Sorin, I never doubted you, yours, or Tex, for a second, it is the rules, and the consistancy thereof, that I have a question with.

And as for people mentioning Mr Sorin's re-cert. Stop it. He certified on the #3 before many here were born, and before most here had heard of COC, in fact, he's the REASON many here heard of COC. Any question about his re-cert are irrelevant and IMO insulting. He was under no duty or responsbility to re-cert and by doing so he proved that if you certed before the rule change, you can, if you wish, cert after, thereby reaffirming any doubts h*ters may have had about the early certs, and for this, I thank him (although it'd be fun to tease Syber that his close isn't as good as the post-rule-change certs )

[Rick Browne]

So the rules that are plainly printed on Ironmind's web site are NOT necessarily the rules that are used to certify?

This is an injustice to those who followed the supposedly "official rules".

"Shark Jump and Splash"

Teemu`s cert is a "No doubt about it" official cert criteria as prescribed by the IM rules. A cert certainly to be a model for anyone to emulate. Great job Teemu!!

[imodnar_]

In here Finland the certification as well as any of our other grip feats have always been done in the strictest way possible. The certifications have been done at official grip contests held by approved judge and grip contest helder for over 10 years experience, Kimmo Kokko and everything we have ever done in our contests have had to been approved by Kimmo Kokko. That is why it seems so strange at least to me that the judging over seas can (or so it seems) be done by almost anyone and the rules seem to be easier to the "inner circle" friends of Ironmind company.

Edited August 8, 2008 by imodnar_

[tspinillo]

So the rules that are plainly printed on Ironmind's web site are NOT necessarily the rules that are used to certify?

This is an injustice to those who followed the supposedly "official rules".

"Shark Jump and Splash"

Teemu`s cert is a "No doubt about it" official cert criteria as prescribed by the IM rules. A cert certainly to be a model for anyone to emulate. Great job Teemu!!

I agree a 100%.

[Paul Knight]

And as for people mentioning Mr Sorin's re-cert. Stop it. He certified on the #3 before many here were born, and before most here had heard of COC, in fact, he's the REASON many here heard of COC. Any question about his re-cert are irrelevant and IMO insulting. He was under no duty or responsbility to re-cert and by doing so he proved that if you certed before the rule change, you can, if you wish, cert after, thereby reaffirming any doubts h*ters may have had about the early certs, and for this, I thank him (although it'd be fun to tease Syber that his close isn't as good as the post-rule-change certs )

[lloyd80s]

Richard Sorin has my full respect, 100%. People like him have driven grip as a sport forward and many of us should always remember that. He is and will always be a legend in our sport.

Tex has my respect for closing a #3.5 with what looks like ease. I'm sure it was tough but he made it look easy! This guy is STRONG!

The point in hand is of the authenticity of Tex's cert on the #3.5. All of us guys that don't know Strossen know the cert rules to be the ones on the Ironmind website. We would all agree that the close's of Richards new #3 cert and Tex's first #3.5 cert do not follow the rules on the Ironmind website and are therfore NOT certs.

Two things now need to be looked at-

1) Strossen looks at the certification procedure and amends the rules to allow both of these certs to continue or

2) Makes everyone use the cert rules on the site and therefore ask's Richard and Tex to re-try under the website rules.

I have no doubt about Richards intentions, he's coming across as a stand up guy and full credit to him, I do however take a dim view of Strossen. Why the hell would you advise Richard of changes in the rules and not inform the rest of the world via the Ironmind website?

It just seems to me that it's a case of one rule for one but a different rule for another.

I

[Jedd Johnson]

I was just sitting here thinking. I certified Tex on the #3 at the 2006 GGC. I am not sure of this, but I don't THINK he held the credit card then either. I think I held the card, and Randall was taking snapshots while I did it.

But, this has been a while ago now. Does anyone that was there recall if I held the card or if he did that day???

[StalwartSentinel]

Teemu's cert on the #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiESnEseh3Y

That is textbook.