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To those who say kinney is a fraud


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Some on here have openly said they do not believe that Mr Kinney ever closed his #4. Itwas done some time ago when grippers were an even smaller minute minority sport than they are now. His gripper may have been stolen but more likely was just lost. Gripper theft has yet to grow to major proportions. It is possible to fake such a thing, and I suspect there may be at least one person who has faked his #3 certification. It would not be worth the trouble. Joe has impressed people as being an honorable man and that is good enough for me. Something that is very easy to fake is the RT handle lift. All you need to do is discretely pin the handle so it does not rotate. That does not mean that people are doing that, only that anything is possible. Heath demonstrated by his near miss recently on the #4 that is is possible. I know he does not doubt Joe Kinney. I expect to see people claiming that the next person to close the 4 should be called the first as it was more provable. Particularily if that person is someone they support and brag after.

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What a weekend we have had. Poor Old Guy and a few others - perhaps including me - seem to have lost the plot.

As Old Guy quite rightly points out it is indeed very easy to cheat and there is no easy way how to tell not to but I would hope that Randalls means of protecting himself will work.

Example 1: Rolling Thunder handle. No 'tacky', a new handle is used at every comp. For the January effort a handle will be sent in a sealed bag and only opened at the event by Pullums.

Example 2: Several witnesses have seen myself, again for example, pick up their No 3 CoC grippers and shut them three times in quick succession (did that at the 2001 Iron Grip comp during a break from lifting - which by the way adds weight to the differing inch pounds arguement for grippers).

Question: why didn't Joe buy another CoC No 4 gripper? I DO belive he did it, I feel that the video etc hasn't been faked, but it would solve the questions that I wasn't aware were being asked until Friday.


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"Plot" "poor" I have no idea what your talking about. I and others were talking about certification. You are now talking about competition and having been seen to have closed different #3.s  Competitions and being certified are a lot different. Cheating in a grip competition would be very difficult. In certification not so difficult, and in pics very easy.

I will continue to use plain English. Only Joe Roark puts things better than I do on here.

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When I spoke to Kinney months ago he had

acquired a second #4, but had loaned it to a friend,

so was four-less at the moment.

For the record, I think Kinney closed a 4, and I

think he closed that second 4 he acquired.

But,again, because the first is missing, we will never

perhaps have a chance to offer it to someone in

that neighborhood level of strength.

I fully believe Heath was within 1/16" of closing his

4. But he says he came nowhere close to closing my

4. And while I know of course that a 4 is a 4 is a 4,

and there cannot be any such major variance, this

puzzles me, and makes me wonder where Kinney's

4 would have fit in the strength curve in relation

to Heath's and to mine. Indeed, it could be stronger

than mine, or weaker than Heath's.

There is no disrepect in honest inquiry, especially in

the face of missing ingredients.

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Joe's two finger close on a three is just another testament to his hard work, and should help people realize that his crushing ability is good enough for a four.

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Now I thought I was the one that did all the bragging... I have been informed that only Joe and Old Guy can express themselves.

The plot is lost even more as this thread is not about either item you mention. Anytime you're not sure what I refer to feel free to ask and I will attempt to clairfy.

To start that ball rolling and after we accept that Certification is in Randalls hands, what would you accept as 'proof' that a 4 has and can be closed? That question to both Joe and Old Guy.

Not that I am suggesting Joe K cannot now shut the new CoC 4 but what would he also now need to do, if indeed he felt that he needed to do so, to make the nay-sayers happy?

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paul valpreda

Why are these recent posts turning into arguments? Just as OldGuy has the choice to believe that Kinney closed a #4, I have the choice not to believe it. Also OldGuy, if you think your English is perfectly understandable, maybe it is to you, but not necessarily to everyone else. I didn't join this board to argue with people or to make them wrong about issues, but that's what it seems to be turning into. I agree with a recent remark made by Sexton - I also liked the old grip board much better. Things have really changed. And another thing, there is SO much more to talk about regarding grip work than just the d@mn grippers!!!

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I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the basis of this thread.

- Joe Kinney was CERTIFIED as closing a #4.

- Those board members (and there are a few) who have spoken/corresponded with him speak of him highly and as an honest man of integrity.

People are free to believe what they want to - I believe he closed a #4.  So do many others.  

What possible reason could he have to fake it?   :angry:  

He doesn't and will probably never have a chip on his shoulder.

I hope this isn't the start of a decline in the quality of general discussion of this board.  I think the wider grip community is better than that.

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The grippers are the absolute least interesting

aspect of grip strength for me.


I don't care what procedure is used to certify a 3

or a 4. I would care if everyone had a go at the

very same gripper so that we would be addressing

the same topic. If someone deadlifts 500 lbs on a 2"

bar, everyone knows what is being discussed. In gripper

terms, though, we could say that someone performed that

deadlift with between 470 to 540 lbs, for example.

With grippers, let's say every COC gathered in one spot with the 3 used for certification, and each man had to try all the

other grippers. I suspect, if a de-certification

procedure was attached to not closing the hardest of the 3's,

several men would indeed lose status.

In no other lift is such a variance of resistance encountered-

and that's the problem, it is not a lift.


I believe Kinney. But regarding what possible reason

would someone have to fake it? Try being the only

person in your category for several years, or wanting

a place in history, or to sell machines, or ego.

Ironhistory is rife with examples of fakes. Famous

fakes. Very famous fakes.

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Richard Sorin closed a #3 (a tougher, old-school one right?) with 2 fingers & closed his Phantom 4, which Heath did worse on than his own #4, but not under certifiable conditions (eg with a pic, etc), but nobody doubts that he did any of those things. Kinney DID do all of his stuff under certifiable condidtions, & people still don't believe him. Obviously everyone believes Richard did what he did because everyone thinks he's good guy, but why do people doubt Kinney? What did he do that makes him less believable? Maybe he really WAS that strong! & maybe his #4 really DID get stolen! You guys need to look up Occam's Razor somewhere & find that the correct solution to a problem is usually the simplest one. (except maybe in Inch's case I guess...)

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I talked to Joe.  After I talked to him, I think he's the real deal. Until I watch the closing on his video again. Then I hop back on the fence. Anyone who has tried to handle a 4 with any hope of doing any damage (maybe you can't I suspect gripmaniac?) knows what it's like and for someone to GRIND that sucker with such overforce. Well, it's SO FAR in advance of what ANYONE has come close to achieving. And it was done by some 170lb guy years ago!

" I hope this isn't the start of a decline in the quality of general discussion of this board.  I think the wider grip community is better than that."

On this statement, we've hashed this topic out many times before. Yeah, the whole board is gonna go in the toilet over this one topic. Sheesh.  :crazy

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Rick Browne

I think the video shows a true close of the 4.

At the start when he shows the fatness of the spring

using quarters, to where he sets the gripper in his hand

and begins to close it, I could not detect any "blip" in

the film.

Would not a blip be visible if he paused the camera to change

grippers and then restart the camera?

I say this because when I was in school I made football highlight films and when you cut and splice film,

there is a "blip" between scenes

It looked to me to be one smooth take :)

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I hop back on the fence just because it's so unbelievable.  That's my issue in my own mind if you know what I mean. As I said, I believe Joe in talking to him personally.

Also, the least likely method IMO to use would be camera trickery.

This topic comes up about once every 6 months or so.  I suspect it will still be alive even when someone else closes one because they will be NO WHERE near the overcrush and grind power that Joe displays in the video.  It will just add to the myth-like status of it. :)

The first response of anyone who's put in many many closes of a 3 and higher is typically doubt.  Human nature and all given they know what level it displays on the video.  Incredible Hulk LEVEL that's what!   :0

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Rick Browne


I interpreted an earlier thread that stated maybe Joe

put #4 handles on a lighter spring then closed for the

camera. If he did that, then the pause and restart of the

camera would have given credence to that belief.

I say we have all Known guys or have witnessed guys doing

incredible physical feats and all you can do is shake your

head and marvel at how the heck they can do it!

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My English is plain and simple. Anyone who can read English should understand if not agree with what I am saying. This does not seem to true in the case of Mr Gardener who clearly does not understand too much of what he reads. He uses this board to boast about himself, and has stated that he gives and seeks training advice elsewhere and not on the board. There have always been arguments on this and all discussion boards. Mainly because people read things into posts that are not even there. As for gripper talk dominating the posts, of course it does as we all own them. I find grippers boring and it means nothing to me when I feel the handles touch on my #3. It only tells me that my strength has progressed and my training is on the right lines. I much prefer thickbar and pinchgripping. I am not guilty of posting only on grippers. I even boast once in a while. This board is the biggest and best of it's kind. The subject of the #4, Kinney and so on will always come up. It is relevant to bring it up once again as some seem to be close to closing their #4.  Meanwhile try having any kind of discussion that is in no way an argument. No easy feat.

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hi guys .  just to add my two cents, I recieved a letter from joe kinney he never talked about himself only good training advice .I do not believe joe would cheat  I know he did not make any real money from this. Also joe is a freak ahead of his time. Just like mike bridges squatting 823 at 177 when only seven supers that year squatted that, or the little bulgargian sulmonou at 123 cleaning more than paul anderson when he won the 56 olympics weighing 375 and consider the strongest man in the world even by the russians. I guess I am stupid I choose to believe people until they are proven otherwise.

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Guest Mikael Siversson

Well, what else could one do. What if Joe actually did close a #4 legitimately. I would much rather be classified as naive (if it turns out that Joe faked the closing) than proven to be a spine-less piece of #### for having discredit an honest man (in the case of Joe making a comeback and once again closing the #4).

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