paul valpreda Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 I agree that Saxon's record will probably never be touched, but the main reason I believe this is that not too many people even practice the bent press anymore. Today there seem to be a lot of people going after the #4 and I'm sure someone will get it under "certifiable" conditions in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Poor examples. None of those guys came from nowhere to world champion status in less than two years. Show me one person who was totally unheard of and had absolutely no background in strength going form there to an untouchable level of achievement in just two years. The whole story doesn't hold water. Just about every aspect of it is suspicious (wife as witness, lost/stollen grippers, the speed grind ...). Faith belongs in religion not strength. NEVER FORGET THAT JOE WAS CERTIFIED ON FAITH! Mike M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Roark Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 What about Joes certification on the #3? Who did it, his wife? Video taped? He was a COC before shutting the #4. Is there anything that Joe has said or done that would make one think he is dishonorable? Just because he wasn't on the front of Grip International doesn't mean he wasn't training at all. How long did it take Joe to close the #3 from the day he purchased he first gripper that may have been the trainer? He has just handed everyones ass to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Snott, I am surprised that you say you cannot budge your #4. As you can mash a #3 easily surely you could close a 4 to handles parallel ? There is no fortune to be made selling videos or secret weapons. I doubt if even Ironmind makes much profit selling very well made grippers for less than 20 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apdwler Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Edit...I decide against posting this...I'd rather the topics concentrate on training.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 as the legend goes, according to the ironmind catalog, joe first wanted to order a #4. it says "the boss" (presumably randy) convinced joe to buy the #3. this suggests that joe never bought a trainer, or even a #2. he quickly closed a #3 without an easier gripper to learn the set or to work the close at the exact angle of the cocs. Joe tried to order a #4 straght away, he knew he would close it (myself, i ordered a trainer at first as i bet most people ordered a t or a #1 if they had no experience on cocs) How is a man so sure? - dont give me that hard work and determination crap, if you load 800lbs on a squat rack for your first squat ever you must know something that others do not. I still cling to the possibility that it may have happened, but i am doubtful. it is also very important to remeber discussion on this topic should be completely seperate from a discussion of joe's honesty or integrity. how many honest and completely amiable people have claimed to be drug free but were really users. i have never talked to joe, so for all i know he may personally be the nicest guy in the whole world or he may be a total jerk (i don't really care) this has nothing to do with his strength levels, past or present. also joe has performed a number of other impressive lifts, notably the inch, has anyone witnessed these? again! (in bold) an honest discussion of joe's #4 closure should not be seen as a personal attack on the man himself-especially from those like me who have never seen or talked to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik_F Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 I recently got my #4 and was wondering about the width of it. It is the same width as my #2. My number #3 is much wider. Is it supposed to be like this? I actually expected the #4 to be much tougher than it is too. I can close it against my legs and it doesnt really feel much harder to close on the leg than my #3. I think my #3 is pretty tough since I dont get much further on it than the #4. Or my #4 is easy. I can sweep the #4 and budge it further than I thought. My #3 is 80 mms between the handles. The #4 is 74 mms. I dont have large hands and the #3 is pretty difficult to set for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Old Guy, I may be a COC, but I'm not Superman! I'll give my #4 a try again. I haven't played with it for a while now, because I'm doing work on my other grippers (mainly my BBE's). Now I'm hearing about the new seemingly easy #4's. No, this can't be right! Is it? I might order a new #4 and see for myself. AP, you have the story correct - but with a twist. Joe wanted the #3, and they gave him a #2 instead. That and he told me he first started on a #1. Doesn't make any sense, does it? Joe came from a grip background before the #4 grippers came about. I still have the ad in which they say he has a "600 pound grip". On the ad, he's bursting a beer can. This is back in the heyday when the number of COC's could be counted on your hand. Again, too many factors to consider. I say believe what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Lets ask Randall. If need be ask Joe and print the letter here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 AP, How can anyone's honesty and integrity NOT be separated from their FALSE claims? Isn't false the opposite of truth, and isn't morality based on the latter, and frauds based on the former? This is not in reference to Kinney, but to anyone who misrepresents performance. How can a drug user who denies using drugs, be 'honest'? If the using liar and the non-using truth-teller both claim they are clean, then what words do we employ for the needed distinctions? The ultimate sadness is the ego of the person who craves recognition on such shabby grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 roark, good point, but what i mean to say is that a person's percieved morality has no bearing on their false claims/steroid use ect. Another way, if a person makes false claims then they = immoral; but if a person is the "nicest guy/greatest family man ect" that does not prove that they do not make false claims. follow? i once had a discussion (on another board) on whether or not a particular, famous american strongman used steroids or not. it got a little ugly when this strongman's wife (supposedly) came to chat with me and refute my suspicions. She stated how great a guy he was and how much he loved his family and how little money there is in strongman as evidence. The worst thing about steroid use and false claims is the fact that they taint the real acheivements of hard working athletes out there. Athletes that use steroids should still be commended for their hard work, but a level playing field is nonexistent for naturals. This "natural" strongman would surely be natural WSM if only the users could be seperated into another catagory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 of course the opposite is true also, just because you meet a real jerk who lies about most anything doesnt mean that he cannot tell the truth once in a while. So how do you know? that's why character considerations are irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Snot- I just bought my #4 a few months ago-I can tell you, it ain't EASY by any stretch. Much, much, much harder then my BBE and BBSE-I can close it on my leg with the help of my free hand-but it is extremely difficult to do so and when I release-it pops out to just past parallel. Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 AP, I see your point: character cannot be used for or against lifting claims, and, sadly, I must agree we have in fact come to that point. Formerly, people of honesty could be counted on to be as good as their word (claim), and though truly honest people still can be counted on, their ranks have been infiltrated by pretenders, so the only true filter, at least in regard to lifting concerns, is strict, impartial judging. The worst deceived man is the self deceived man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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